the pelt man Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 I would urge you all to show a bit of compassion in the next few weeks while this cold snap is enveloping us all. With the temeratures plumetting to -6 and below and snow covering all greenery pigeon will be dying in their 100,s of thousands up and down the country If its anything like the last big freeze in the mid 80,s ( and there is every chance it will be) pigeon numbers could be hit massively to the extent that certain areas will see a serious decline in pigeon numbers in the next few seasons. It may be good for crop protection but if you want to preserve your sport in hard shot areas show a bit of restraint and compassion for your quarry. Plus if you dont get out for a few weeks you will enjoy your shooting trip all the more, i can guarrantee it :yp: Hi Fisherman Mike Please find 2 old post of yours paste and copy: No1 Have any members noticed a decline in pigeon populations in their area? I started Pigeon shooting in the Cotswolds ( Cirencester Area) back in the 70,s and there was then less rape and far more Birds! I have heard that 4 million plus birds are shot in the UK each year from a population of 6-7 million pairs. Can this continue without some sort of close season? I dont shoot pigeon (or any bird) during its breeding cycle as I feel I am then contributing to their recovery. Any comments. No2 Fisherman Mike View Member Profile Add as Friend Send Message Find Member's Topics Find Member's Posts post Jul 31 2005, 08:38 PM Post #13 Ace Pigeon Shooter Group Icon Group: Site Supporter Posts: 2397 Joined: 21-July 03 From: between Stroud and Cirencester, Glos. Member No.: 427 Myself and two others shot 226 today over a fresh cut Rape field My part of the bag was 72 Mike all i wish to know is What is the dif in shooting hungry pigeon in Jan and Fit healthy Pigeon in July . As you know full well, These Pigeon you shot in July some if not most would have Squabs sitting in a nest waiting to be feed instead the Squabs will starve to death B) . I don't mind you having your point of view but please dont urge us to do anything. Your morals are yours which are made out in the above posts, and our Morals are ours. Regards PELTMAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Quote, rjimmer It's been said that rape does not need protecting until February, as it will recover from any pigeon pressure prior to that. The weather we're having at the moment might mean that this is disprooved. Hi rjimmer Interesting point :yp: the farmer with the rape I shoot over maintains it needs looking after till march then it safe? Alan So does he think it necessary to protect it before February? Some say it is not! 'Winter Proud' is a way of describing a winter cereal crop that has come on too quick. The traditional way of letting sheep graze off a young crop of winter cereals doesn't seem to happen any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Some people, like Peter Scott, have shot big numbers themselves and then want to stop other people following their example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Interesting debate this and each to his own. I know from years of survey work for the BTO that Pigeon numbers are at an all time high because of their ability to breed 12 months of the year with an available food source ( mainly being OSR) there is no doubt that the increase in OSR cultivation has resulted in a similar proportional increase in pigeon numbers. The last census estimated probably 4 - 5 million pairs of WP in the Uk in 2007 but this number could be much higher. Sadly, and I believe this to be true many birds have become dependant on OSR in the winter in some areas. This year has seen a higher than usual influx of Fieldfare and Redwing and these together with the resident Blackbird, Thrush and Woodpigeon have already stripped most of the available Holly, Haw, Hip, together with garden cotoneaster, japonica, burberis and the like. There is Ivy of course but this is being stripped rapidly as well. If the influx of Waxwing arrive in the next few weeks form scandinavia as expected we can expect to see some spectacular sights on our bird tables. It will be interesting to see come spring and subsequent harvest, (should this cold spell be as elongated as the experts think) if Pigeon numbers have been dramatically affected, personally I think they will be greatly reduced, so in a way nature is exercising its own crop protection. Dont forget that a WP will live on average 4 or 5 years many a lot less, some more, so the modern crop of birds will never have experienced this type of weather before. That said I must hold up my hand and say that I shoot WP each year because I enjoy it and because the numbers currently support my sport. All of the Farmers on whose land I shoot know this and that my trips are not too frequent and accept this. They also know that I cant be shooting 10,000 acres or so every week and so rotate the gas guns which are I hate to say much more effective than an ageing 50 yo with a similar ageing Baikal To be perfectly honest and this is a fact, only Pigeons feeding on Sprouting crops like OSR and the like and point of harvest crops like Peas are doing any damage. Pigeons feeding on Stubble are actually doing the Farmer a favour and most modern farms have very little spillage after seeding in the spring, pigeons will not probe below the surface for wheat or barley seed, like corvids will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Hi Fisherman Mike Please find 2 old post of yours paste and copy: No1 Have any members noticed a decline in pigeon populations in their area? I started Pigeon shooting in the Cotswolds ( Cirencester Area) back in the 70,s and there was then less rape and far more Birds! I have heard that 4 million plus birds are shot in the UK each year from a population of 6-7 million pairs. Can this continue without some sort of close season? I dont shoot pigeon (or any bird) during its breeding cycle as I feel I am then contributing to their recovery. Any comments. No2 Fisherman Mike View Member Profile Add as Friend Send Message Find Member's Topics Find Member's Posts post Jul 31 2005, 08:38 PM Post #13 Ace Pigeon Shooter Group Icon Group: Site Supporter Posts: 2397 Joined: 21-July 03 From: between Stroud and Cirencester, Glos. Member No.: 427 Myself and two others shot 226 today over a fresh cut Rape field My part of the bag was 72 Mike all i wish to know is What is the dif in shooting hungry pigeon in Jan and Fit healthy Pigeon in July . As you know full well, These Pigeon you shot in July some if not most would have Squabs sitting in a nest waiting to be feed instead the Squabs will starve to death B) :yp: . I don't mind you having your point of view but please dont urge us to do anything. Your morals are yours which are made out in the above posts, and our Morals are ours. Regards PELTMAN Fair comment and actually you are right the difference may seem minimal. However I believe there is a moral dilema here and which side of the fence you come down on is down to the individual. I have often wondered if Squabs are at risk during the breeding season after a parent is shot and as both parenets will feed the young after the other is lost the incidence of squabs dying in the nest is small. I must point out that I dont often shoot in July and prefer to shoot over laid wheat or Barley rather than stubble which many see as fair game for a pigeon. I still urge some restraint and from the tone of the posts many members agree with my sentiments. Im sure if you search your heart a little you would find some little compassion too. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the pelt man Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Hi Mike If i search not to deep yes there is compassion for many things, infact i risked life and limb driving in blizzard conditions to buy bird seed to put in the feeders in the garden. Also knocking the snow of the plumb trees so's the birds have somewhere to land. Having said that, compassion is a human thing and i ask myself dose it have a place in the world of nature, life and death. Even animal lovers while out on the plains of Africa now sit back and let nature take its course when things look bad for animals where they used to step in and help out. You may ask why do i kill more than i need to eat like other hunting animals would then. All i can say is i must be like a fox which kills all the chicken in the run. i honestly belive that the reason i shoot Pigeon, Stalk Deer and Catch Sea fish is that i DO NOT surpress my inbuilt instinct to hunt. I DO NOT rap myself up in modern ways of thinking, but only conform to get by and stay within the law. If it was leagel i would hunt with Bow and arrow. The only reason we all shoot is to satisfy what comes natural IMHO. Hope this maks sence :yp: Regards PELTMAN Edited January 6, 2010 by the pelt man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 This thread is fascinating. It would be a real eye opener to the antis who think shooters are all knuckle dragging neanderthals who know nothing of their quarry's natural history and blast anything that moves for the sake of it. Oh, and I've learned some stuff too :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 I have often wondered if Squabs are at risk during the breeding season after a parent is shot and as both parenets will feed the young after the other is lost the incidence of squabs dying in the nest is small. ISTR reading in one of the pigeon shooting books, possibly John Batley's, that pigeon parents are like the president and vice president, they never travel together :yp: Not that it's done deliberately as such, just that when one is feeding the other is on the nest. So the chances of killing both parents and leaving the squabs to starve is relatively small, either either survivor can still feed? Dunno how true this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted January 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 This thread is fascinating. It would be a real eye opener to the antis who think shooters are all knuckle dragging neanderthals who know nothing of their quarry's natural history and blast anything that moves for the sake of it. Oh, and I've learned some stuff too :yp: No thats just people outside of Gloucestershire Dave ( only Joking everybody else ).... well apart from those in the Forest of Dean who are probabaly Troglodytes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 We havn`t had much snow down here on the kent coast probably about a centimetre but it isn`t laying, pigeons numbers around here are lower than last year or they just don`t want to feed on my permission, whatever the case i have stored the shotguns and now take my rifles out with me and go for the rabbits which are causing huge ammounts of damage digging crops up and eating them. Although i do carry a shotgun just incase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) I can't believe the nonsense some people are posting on a public forum... what idiots!!! For example, 'pigeon shooting does nothing for pest control' or 'we should all stop because there has been a bit of snow'. I don't know about some of the people on this site, but when I shoot a field, I shoot it till the birds stop coming, and very few of them leave with a full belly (including the missed ones). So, I invite you to tell the farmer that the pigeons currently hitting his winter greens should be left alone. Or that my shooting them isn't protecting his crop. What a load of C**P. Now, I can't speak for crop protection in England (and we don't have much rape here), but I can tell you something about Northern Ireland. If I didn't shoot them I would soon find few more boys stuck in the hedge amongst the potatoes or greens who would happily oblige the farmer. Perhaps I should also not go out this morning and shoot the sheds that are currently black with crows? just let them go and hope the man in charge can live with the situation or that he doesn't ask some one else to do it? Edited January 7, 2010 by Dr D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 alot of guys on here seem under the thumb of the farmer, for the want of putting it another way. i think it makes it sound so noble to some on here that they reckon they are out protecting precious crops. im glad i dont have any arrangements with the landowners whose ground i shoot to rid there crop from pigeons. shooting for me is a hobby and passtime. i dont want to get a call from some frantic farmer telling me to launch a vendetta against the pigeon. makes it all a tad serious to me. each to there own, but not for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 In that case Benelli its likely your pigeon shooting is illegal. Farmers livelihoods is their crops and they tollerate an amount of losses but round us you can have 3000 plus birds on a field and they soon do irrepairable damage as they tend to go for the thinner patches of crop first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 please explain what is illegal about my shooting then? last time i went out i thought i had permission to do so. perhaps you know something i dont?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 please explain what is illegal about my shooting then? last time i went out i thought i had permission to do so. perhaps you know something i dont?? take a look at the general licence, but, if i remember right, unless its to prevent crop damage or public health issues then theres no other reason youre allowedto shoot pigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 please explain what is illegal about my shooting then? last time i went out i thought i had permission to do so. perhaps you know something i dont?? yup doing it for your own fun / pleasure is actually not complying with the terms of the general license where you're there to shoot them when other methods of keeping them off the crops haven't worked. Obviously its a technicality but worth knowing that saying you're not doing it for pest control purposes isn't a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 thats news to me. is the general licence not something to do with spring and summer shooting?? i dont think we have it here in n.ireland. i dont shoot in spring and summer. please dont accuse me of breaking the law when i have not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) thats news to me. is the general licence not something to do with spring and summer shooting?? i dont think we have it here in n.ireland. i dont shoot in spring and summer. please dont accuse me of breaking the law when i have not. eh... we DO have it here in northern ireland. its got nothing to do with shooting in spring or summer, as i said, pigeons can not be shot for sport, they can only be shot to protect crops or for public health issues (ie theyre craping all over farm machinery, etc) take a look at the basc website, all the info is in there - http://www.basc.org.uk/en/shooting/general-licences.cfm Edited January 7, 2010 by babbyc1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 babby on that website it refers to pigeon shooting providing excellent "sporting" shooting. also there is no need to apply for the licence, just abide by its terms. the wood pigeon i shoot pose no threat to livestock, or indeed crops as i shoot mainly stubble anyway. you may need one tho for all the ferals you like to shoot in barns in farmyards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendersons Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 i think that under the terms of the general licence to shoot pigeons it has to be done to protect crops otherwise you are shooting ilegally. By shooting pigeons you are shooting under the general licence and as such have to abide by the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 read this and it explains what you need to know about the General open licenses, http://www.countryside-alliance.org.uk/sho...licence-advice/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 babby on that website it refers to pigeon shooting providing excellent "sporting" shooting. also there is no need to apply for the licence, just abide by its terms. the wood pigeon i shoot pose no threat to livestock, or indeed crops as i shoot mainly stubble anyway. When you're in a hole, stop digging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendersons Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 can somebody with a better grasp of the english language please explain the rules to this chap nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumpersniper Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 When you're in a hole, stop digging! seconded!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 ok guys please do explain the general licence to me? and im assuming you all have one? do you need one to shoot pheasants out of trees at night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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