PhilR Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I posted this in error on sporting pics section. I was pheasant shooting on 3xspringer's shoot yesterday and shot the cock shown below with an old Eley 3" 20 bore paper cased cartridge, one of a few I'd had knocking about in the garage for a number of years. Has anyone got an idea how old it is, consensus of opinion yesterday was circa 1960's. My thanks go to 3xspringer for an enjoyable day and also BigG who flushed the bird for me. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) To be honest not a clue, however with more info someone might be able to help, what does it say on the brass head? eley / eley kynoch (sp)? and is there a box or are they loose? Edited January 17, 2010 by Paul223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Paul, On the base of the cartridge, around the outside of the primer, it is stamped ELEY-KYNOCH with the figures 20 before and after the words, and also an ICI logo at the base. The only other items on the case are the words smokeless, made in Great Britain and the eley logo. The cartridges are unfortunately loose. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) From the straw coloured paper case, shot number at base and evidence of a varnish dip, I'd say mid 1940s - late 1950s. Edited January 17, 2010 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
night owl Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 nobles the same as these will get the box out later and see if there is a date these are 12 gage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 It's crimp-closure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy22 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 If it's an English cartridge why would it say 20 "Gauge" on it? Shouldn't it be 20 Bore? Loaded for export? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyfarmerboy Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I have some similar to that, mine are 12b and i have 4 that are eley grand prix and they say smokeless cartridge on, and also got one in yellow that says Rabbit 6 on it Take it they are same and worth a bit fired on ebay etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) If it's an English cartridge why would it say 20 "Gauge" on it? Shouldn't it be 20 Bore? Loaded for export? Actually, '20 gauge' is correct and so is .410 bore. 'Twenty Gauge', 'Grand Prix' and 'Alphamax' etc. were Eley Trade Marks. Edited January 18, 2010 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I have a box of the ones in the picture that belonged to my granfather, he was born in 34 I think, so I would go for mid 50s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallbore Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 nobles the same as these will get the box out later and see if there is a date these are 12 gage You may find they are worth quite a bit, especially if full boxes. One company that sells such items is Kennedy Gunmakers (http://www.kennedyguns.com/) and I've seen old boxes of cartridges in their window. Bob M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbiter Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I have an old eley catalogue from 1967 (from memory) and that cartridge would seem to be roughly from that period. The Eley 'twenty guage' was the 20 bore version of the grand prix cartridge although with this being a 3' job would have been an alphamax equivelant. Have you still got the box phil? If so there is a way of dating the exact day/month/year of when they were packed according to the Eley Cartridge book by C W Harding which I do conveniently have at home. There should be a code under/somewhere on the box flaps, if so let me know and I shall have a go at dating them for you. Regards Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted January 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hi Stuart, Thank you for your kind offer, unfortunately I don't have the box just a few cartridges. I've emailed Eley with the photos and I'm waiting for a reply from them. The age spread so far is from mid 40's to 60's! Regards, Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 yep, 1947 and worth about £45................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Just been looking in fourten.org.uk. There are pages from a 1939 Eley catalogue and there is a pic of this cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted January 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 I've received an email from the MD of Eley: "Head stamps bearing the ICI roundel came into use in 1930 and continued in use until the Eley Ammunition Division of Imperial Metal Industries (Kynoch) Ltd was formed in 1962. The head stamp continued in use until October 1963 when the ICI roundel was removed". So it is between 47 and 80 years old, nice to get that little puzzle sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) I still have a few Alphmax that I bought with my first shotgun in 1970 time, paper case, 1 shot, ICI logo on the head. They were as old as hell then, the guy saw me coming!!. But they all worked as prescribed, I shot a cock myself with an old Eley GP 7 shot a couple of years ago, I know I have not bought 7s since the mid 70s so it was at least 30 years old. A Edited January 31, 2010 by Alycidon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 I started shooting in 1966 and as long as I can remember all Eley 20 bore cartridges had yellow cases to prevent any mix up with 12 bore shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Hi Stuart, Thank you for your kind offer, unfortunately I don't have the box just a few cartridges. I've emailed Eley with the photos and I'm waiting for a reply from them. The age spread so far is from mid 40's to 60's! Regards, Phil I'd go 50's being as its a crimp closure Wb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyT Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Having just inherited a clutch of old cartridges, I am finding this forum very interesting. The first pic is 16 bore, the rest are 12. Can anyone help with dates and values? Typical - won’t load the pics. 16 bore is eley Grand Prix, paper, blue, not crimped, ICI stamp on base, 4s,5s and 6s. first 12 bore is “The Covert” Henry Atkin, paper, not crimped, blue, eley-kynoch + ICI stamp on base, 7s second 12 bore is “The Covert” Henry Atkin etc again but orange, not crimped, 5s. I only have a handful of each but they are live still. Would be fascinated to know whatI’ve got. Thanks Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 The ici headstamp dates them from 1926 to 1963, might be able to date the Atkins a bit more accurately with the pictures. 12 hours ago, RickyT said: Having just inherited a clutch of old cartridges, I am finding this forum very interesting. The first pic is 16 bore, the rest are 12. Can anyone help with dates and values? Typical - won’t load the pics. 16 bore is eley Grand Prix, paper, blue, not crimped, ICI stamp on base, 4s,5s and 6s. first 12 bore is “The Covert” Henry Atkin, paper, not crimped, blue, eley-kynoch + ICI stamp on base, 7s second 12 bore is “The Covert” Henry Atkin etc again but orange, not crimped, 5s. I only have a handful of each but they are live still. Would be fascinated to know whatI’ve got. Thanks Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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