what effect does a sound mod have on a 22lr sub round ?

[Salop Matt]

Folks currently out of my 22lr and HMR my 22 is my favorite child ( this changes every few months though) I am curious however what performance difference i would get if i shot it without a scilencer on it as noise isnt a issue !

 

Would I see slightly more power from the round or greater accuracy ? Just curious as the yanks dont shoot much with modorators !

[al4x]

a lot of the yanks aren't allowed them believe it or not, quiet firearms are more dangerous apparently

 

you will see a POI change but no other real difference other than the noise

[miniwizard]

power is reduced,and you need a fed licence to own one in the US,just like a machine gun

[hyflier]

If it helps, I zero'd my old .22lr on an indoor range. At 25 yards the shot fell an astounding 1" when fired with the sound moderator on

 

To answer your other question, the moderator dispenses with the sharp "Crack" of the .22lr round

[Salop Matt]

Maybe I should but my question better.

 

As I am not worryed about noise would there be any perfomance benifit to shooting my 22lr without a modorator on ?

[wymberley]

Hi, Are you talking (the more common) sub or super-sonic rounds?

Cheers

[Salop Matt]

Subs as per the title !

[hyflier]

I did use mine without the moderator on for a while, the bunnies, when hit, kinda took off backwards

 

Dead as a Dodo though

[wymberley]

Subs as per the title !

Oops, missed that!

As the round is silent, it'll just be the noise of the gun, so what al4x says.

Cheers

[Dekers]

Folks currently out of my 22lr and HMR my 22 is my favorite child ( this changes every few months though) I am curious however what performance difference i would get if i shot it without a scilencer on it as noise isnt a issue !

 

Would I see slightly more power from the round or greater accuracy ? Just curious as the yanks dont shoot much with modorators !

 

Basics... .22lr with subs, good mod and well cut barrel!

 

The POI will almost certainly change (reduced muzzle flip and variations of gases/bullet twist leaving mod in relation to the barrel), power should not be reduced, accuracy is likely to improve to a TINY extent...and of course it will be quieter!

 

The Americans tend not to use them because they are not allowed to on the whole!...... and probably because they generally have access to far more bits of bigger land, where they are likely to encounter other shooters as well.

[Frenchieboy]

I may be wrong here and I understand that you have said that you are using Subsonics but if noise is not an issue then instead of just dispensing with the sound mod why not use High Velocity Rounds in your .22LR to improve the power and range? (And possibly accuracy?)

[Cumbrian]

If it helps, I zero'd my old .22lr on an indoor range. At 25 yards the shot fell an astounding 1" when fired with the sound moderator on

 

To answer your other question, the moderator dispenses with the sharp "Crack" of the .22lr round

 

Just noticed this very interesting post. Don't know if I've got it entirely right from a different discipline (target rifle) but, as I understand it, lower velocity .22 ammo (sub-sonic, of course) will shoot higher because the bullet spends slightly longer in the barrel than the faster ammo and is therefore just a bit more subject to the muzzle flip, which will always go up rather than down (contrary to what one might expect i.e. the faster and flatter the bullet the higher, relatively, it will shoot). Therefore, if you reduce the muzzle flip with a moderator, the bullet will shoot a bit lower. Does this make sense? I'd be glad of confirmation or correction from someone more knowledgeable.

[Billy.]

As above, it's really just the POI. What you may find is that some rifles will have a slightly different trajectory because the barrel has been cut to fit a sound mod, which will affect the bullet trajectory. However this will not be by much.

[bennyblanco]

power is reduced

 

 

How would a moderator reduce power?

[hyflier]

Its something to do with the gasses expanding as they leave the muzzle and enter the sound moderator I would imagine Benny. It definately has an effect 'cos I tried this on an indoor range

[Billy.]

How would a moderator reduce power?

 

Think of it as a little push from the escaping gasses at the muzzle. When a mod is placed on the end, the air pressure at the muzzle isn't so high any more. The bullet is only a light little thing, so a little breeze will be enough to change the POI

[bennyblanco]

I'm sorry but I can't see it happening, and annoyingly I have just sold my chrono so until I borrow one for testing some reloads I can't check either.

The change of 1" at 25yds must be to do with the moderator changing the POI rather than the velocity, it would need a massive drop in velocity to drop 1" at such a close range.

[Billy.]

I'm sorry but I can't see it happening, and annoyingly I have just sold my chrono so until I borrow one for testing some reloads I can't check either.

The change of 1" at 25yds must be to do with the moderator changing the POI rather than the velocity, it would need a massive drop in velocity to drop 1" at such a close range.

 

I'm not saying the whole POI will be because of the pressure change. There are a lot of new variables that are added when a mod gets put on the end of a rifle, which can alter the POI. As much as a finger on the barrel can alter the POI, so hopefully this will be a good example.

Edited March 17, 2010 by harfordwmj

[Cumbrian]

I'm sorry but I can't see it happening, and annoyingly I have just sold my chrono so until I borrow one for testing some reloads I can't check either.

The change of 1" at 25yds must be to do with the moderator changing the POI rather than the velocity, it would need a massive drop in velocity to drop 1" at such a close range.

 

 

Re. velocity and POI, have you seen my post above? Perhaps you have a view on it? I'm no expert, just curious.

[bennyblanco]

Re. velocity and POI, have you seen my post above? Perhaps you have a view on it? I'm no expert, just curious.

 

 

Muzzle flip is awkward and also very negligible in .22lr, the only bit that effects the bullets flight is the volume of air in the barrel being pushed out by the bullet as the main blast of gasses happens afterwards if I understand ballistics correctly.

.22lr rifles are effectively recoilless with or without a moderator so I think the change in POI is to do with the moderator/barrel not being perfectly concentric, some of my moderators change the POI and on some it stays pretty much the same.

I don't think a moderator can change the velocity of a bullet but until I borrow a chronograph I can't check

[Cumbrian]

Muzzle flip is awkward and also very negligible in .22lr, the only bit that effects the bullets flight is the volume of air in the barrel being pushed out by the bullet as the main blast of gasses happens afterwards if I understand ballistics correctly.

.22lr rifles are effectively recoilless with or without a moderator so I think the change in POI is to do with the moderator/barrel not being perfectly concentric, some of my moderators change the POI and on some it stays pretty much the same.

I don't think a moderator can change the velocity of a bullet but until I borrow a chronograph I can't check

 

Thank you. Perhaps target rifles are more sensitive to recoil and muzzle flip - despite their weight - at least in the sense that the very slightest error or different influence will have a big effect on where the bullet impacts on the roundel/diagram and therefore on the points dropped. Even from my inexpert and inexperienced perspective, I know that I am more likely to have scored 10 on a particular shot when the muzzle flip is minimal (as seen looking down the barrel on the follow through) i.e. when my position is good and I haven't made one of the numerous detailed mistakes that I usually do with sighting, breathing, trigger pressure, etc. etc. Trouble is that you cannot avoid the barrel harmonics altogether. Even a sub-sonic .22LR bullet when fired equates to roughly 100 ft/lbs, I believe, a force which is not negligible as I recall from the days when I employed a torque wrench on bolts on my car. Been shooting indoor smallbore this evening, so I've just had the point rammed home embarrassingly as usual.

[hyflier]

Ok................. I'm waiting to be proved wrong

 

I assumed the pressure at the muzzle affected the trajectory of the bullet, but the results were there for me to see. I tried it once again at a later date, the results were the same.

 

I have a chronograph, but I don't have the .22lr to test anymore

 

Someone, somewhere will have both................. then we'll know for sure

[bennyblanco]

Ok................. I'm waiting to be proved wrong

 

I assumed the pressure at the muzzle affected the trajectory of the bullet, but the results were there for me to see. I tried it once again at a later date, the results were the same.

 

I have a chronograph, but I don't have the .22lr to test anymore

 

Someone, somewhere will have both................. then we'll know for sure

 

 

You might be right but I think it would need a massive drop in velocity to drop an inch at 25yds, I am also intrigued

 

If you want to bring the chronograph to Milton I can make a safe bullet catch at work tomorrow or depending on where you are bring gun over to you? If not I should have a chrono in the next week or two.

 

ben

[Dougy]

POI will change if you place any extra weight however small on the end of the barrel, thats is obvious surley.

As to decreasing the velocity, yes a mod will by how much some years ago i had a simalar conversation with an old chap in the local he was sure the velocity dropped by putting a mod on a PCP air rifle. Guess what i checked and he was correct, velocity dropped by an average of 18 feet per second.

On a 22 LR its does drop but by a slightly larger amount, around 25 FPS, (I think it also depends on the actual mod, not 100% on that though) so with the added weight and the very miniscule drop in velocity in comparison its bound to change POI

 

So there you go, it was worth playing around with my Chrono all that time ago after all

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

I found the silencer I wanted.

I found the ammo that suits my barrel.

I zerod to suit that combo.

If I go down the range with target ammo & solids the POI is well off so instead of adjusting the scope I just aim off with the mildots.

Useing the same ammo most mods will give you the same POI or close.

The only one that went wild with the POI was an ASE Ultra but the group was still tight.

I use mostly subs with the odd HV with a mod on.

At the range I use std or HV with the mod off.