redthunder Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Hi I was after a bit of helpful advice. Here's my predicament I've been a mentor for a friend for over 6 months who has a .243 and .17hmr he got his 243 by asking a farmer for a letter although the farmer doesn't let anyone lamp on the land because of horses that was the only permission this friend had and to be honest with the weather beening so **** and work commitments and doing a full refurb on my nans house after work and weekends I havn't had time to take this friend out. now last night my friend rang and said I've picked up a cracking permission for hisself and could I write a letter to have the mentor lifted , but afterwards I was thinking that this fried has only fired about a box of 20 rounds through his .243 at paper and never shot foxes with a lamp and only shot 1 rabbit with his 17hmr my worry is that this farm borders a pro golf course and a busy beach should I sigh him off or insist he gets permission for me and I mentor him a little longer what's your thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 nope tell him nicely you haven't seen him shoot enough, either get out with him and get some shooting done till you're happy or nicely say he will need another mentor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted March 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) nope tell him nicely you haven't seen him shoot enough, either get out with him and get some shooting done till you're happy or nicely say he will need another mentor That was my thoughts I seen it a few times were new shooters get tunnel vision and don't think of backstops Edited March 30, 2010 by redthunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 That was my thoughts I seen it a few times were new shooters get tunnel vision I don't think of backstops You don't want to sign a lad like that off. I've seen it waay too many times and they're a serious danger to others. If you can just go out for one night of lamping, you will instantly know if they're responsible enough by the instructions you have to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 looking about I take it he's on here and not much rifle experience with anything other then the .243. Shooting experience is needed as you say so you don't make rash and rushed decisions especially when lamping. We all know accidents are too easy to happen and if you're lucky it will be a non target species and if you're really unlucky it will be someones dog on a lead or someone! What I don't know is if you have any personal liability in the situation, I would assume you will be in trouble if you sign off someone and say they have experience that they haven't. However I've no idea what form this trouble could take, its an interesting one as the mentor condition is almost passing the buck by the FEO and trying to make someone else responsible for the new FAC holder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojusa Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I don't have an FAC so don't know the laws on this but by reading your post I would say that this lad does not have enough experience to be going alone just yet. Either further mentoring from yourself or advise him to get a new mentor. What would be the comeback on yourself if you signed him off and something was to happen, is there any legal holding over you as mentor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I don't have an FAC so don't know the laws on this but by reading your post I would say that this lad does not have enough experience to be going alone just yet. Either further mentoring from yourself or advise him to get a new mentor. What would be the comeback on yourself if you signed him off and something was to happen, is there any legal holding over you as mentor? You say that, but I have shot with lads who have very very little rifle experience, but you can see straight away that they have a natural ability to remain calm and respect that every rabbit in a field doesn't have to be shot. Whilst remembering to keep the safety on and questioning the backstops for certain shots. I took a lad out once who was like this and I wrote a great email to the FEO, as I was so pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redthunder Posted March 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 If I do a letter to the police do I lie and say he's shot plenty or tell the truth and say we've been out a few times and he hasn't pressed the trigger and has no experience lamping in semi urban areas. I think ill tell him to take me lamping on this new permmision of his and once I've seen him shoot a couple of foxes ill sign him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 don't lie and don't sign him off till you are happy, you could have someones life on your concience at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 don't lie and don't sign him off till you are happy, you could have someones life on your concience at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 the idea of a mentor is that you accompany him whilst shooting,so if he wants to get it signed of he needs to take you shooting at your conveniance untill your sure that he s safe enough to go alone,or get a different mentor who he d rather take shooting or be willing to lie to get him off with out mentoring. a couple of trips should be enough for you to make your mind up if hes all there in the napper.dont put your self at risk by signing him off with out being sure he s safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Alright guys Incase you didnt notice its me who Redthunder is on about. Reason I asked him to sign me off was so that I could go down the permission in the days in the summer n do target practice on paper so I can gain more experience that way before moving on to bag a few charlie and applying for deer Wasnt looking to go Rambo or anything just to gain more experience first. However having spoke to Redthunder about it he isn't happy to that yet so no worries, He and I will be heading upto the farm this week hopefully to have a lamp and try to bag a charlie After a few trips out with him hopefully can get the experience I need and then get signed off when I am ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojusa Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Alright guys Incase you didnt notice its me who Redthunder is on about. Reason I asked him to sign me off was so that I could go down the permission in the days in the summer n do target practice on paper so I can gain more experience that way before moving on to bag a few charlie and applying for deer Wasnt looking to go Rambo or anything just to gain more experience first. However having spoke to Redthunder about it he isn't happy to that yet so no worries, He and I will be heading upto the farm this week hopefully to have a lamp and try to bag a charlie After a few trips out with him hopefully can get the experience I need and then get signed off when I am ready No Bigthug87, I hadn't guessed it was you but respect for coming on and saying it was. Excellent decision to come too guy's, good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I had Its a tricky one and no matter how impatient you are try and sit back, its a hard situation for both of you. You want to get out and he doesn't want to hold you back yet having taken on the mentoring its hard to not let you down and also stay the right side of the licensing people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I had Its a tricky one and no matter how impatient you are try and sit back, its a hard situation for both of you. You want to get out and he doesn't want to hold you back yet having taken on the mentoring its hard to not let you down and also stay the right side of the licensing people. Yer I understand mate. Thing is I dont really want to be hassling Redthunder all the time aswell as I know hes had a baby a while ago and has been busy helping out his nan and in work so I only asked so I could go down on my days off and shoot at paper to get some experience like that (especially with the nice summer days coming in ) Hopefully we can get out a bit and get some experience together first and then sort it out when were both more confident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojusa Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 You don't want to sign a lad like that off. I've seen it waay too many times and they're a serious danger to others. If you can just go out for one night of lamping, you will instantly know if they're responsible enough by the instructions you have to give. I don't have an FAC so don't know the laws on this but by reading your post I would say that this lad does not have enough experience to be going alone just yet. Either further mentoring from yourself or advise him to get a new mentor. What would be the comeback on yourself if you signed him off and something was to happen, is there any legal holding over you as mentor? EH!!! Did you not say the same thing in your post before mine ?? You say that, but I have shot with lads who have very very little rifle experience, but you can see straight away that they have a natural ability to remain calm and respect that every rabbit in a field doesn't have to be shot. Whilst remembering to keep the safety on and questioning the backstops for certain shots. I took a lad out once who was like this and I wrote a great email to the FEO, as I was so pleased. I see what your saying harfordwmj, but redthunder had said he hadn't been out with him so could not really comment on his experience, that's what my comment was based on. I wasn't trying to put down Bigthug87, just my thought was that he was not experienced enough to go it alone just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 EH!!! Did you not say the same thing in your post before mine ?? I see what your saying harfordwmj, but redthunder had said he hadn't been out with him so could not really comment on his experience, that's what my comment was based on. I wasn't trying to put down Bigthug87, just my thought was that he was not experienced enough to go it alone just yet. Me n Redthunder have been out just not much, One time out I had charlie in the crosshairs but we didnt take the shot as a reliable backstop wasnt there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 i didnt guess it was you either,didnt even notice the area you were from,and i know from experiance that it s hard to get a mentor who can go out when you can too,had same problem with mine a while back,just got to bide your time,normally 6 months and a few trips under your belt is sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) Hi I was after a bit of helpful advice. Here's my predicament I've been a mentor for a friend for over 6 months who has a .243 and .17hmr he got his 243 by asking a farmer for a letter although the farmer doesn't let anyone lamp on the land because of horses that was the only permission this friend had and to be honest with the weather beening so **** and work commitments and doing a full refurb on my nans house after work and weekends I havn't had time to take this friend out. now last night my friend rang and said I've picked up a cracking permission for hisself and could I write a letter to have the mentor lifted , but afterwards I was thinking that this fried has only fired about a box of 20 rounds through his .243 at paper and never shot foxes with a lamp and only shot 1 rabbit with his 17hmr my worry is that this farm borders a pro golf course and a busy beach should I sigh him off or insist he gets permission for me and I mentor him a little longer what's your thoughts Being a Mentor is a serious commitment, not to be taken lightly by either party. I have heard of this sort of situation often. Things happen and nobody has a crystal ball to look into future time problems, but I take mentoring VERY seriously, I am fair, and reasonable, and helpful. If I agree to mentor someone I do the job, and will not sign anyone off until I am confident, and there is no way I would ever lie, my FAC is on the line potentially too! Edited March 30, 2010 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snozzer Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 What is mentoring, I have checked the relative legislation and there is nothing mentioned about it being a legal requirement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 It must be a real joy to go through the rigmarole of getting a licence and then not be able to use your equipment because someone else is not available to hold your hand when you want to go out shooting. Sounds like just another hurdle to encourage people not to bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 There can't be any repercussions for mentors if a person gets a FAC without conditions and then a year later goes and shoots a stupid shot and smashes a car window... It'd be like arresting a dad for teaching his son to drive and after passing his driving test, the kid hits a person and kills them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 It must be a real joy to go through the rigmarole of getting a licence and then not be able to use your equipment because someone else is not available to hold your hand when you want to go out shooting. Sounds like just another hurdle to encourage people not to bother. is a bit of a pain,but on other hand,for someone who hasnt any experiance with a rifle ,to wander off into the night could also be scary. besides,if lamping is the main shooting your doing as it is for me,your gonna need a mate to carry lamp,battery and bunnies,so works out great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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