barrel length vs choke size

[pigeon chasser]

I've always wondered if you shorten the barrell length and increase the choke size would it have the same affect as lenghthing the barrel and decreasing the choke...

For instace would a 30" barrel with 1/4 choke be the same as a 28" barrel with half choke.

[SSS]

[manton]

I've always wondered if you shorten the barrell length and increase the choke size would it have the same affect as lenghthing the barrel and decreasing the choke...

For instace would a 30" barrel with 1/4 choke be the same as a 28" barrel with half choke.

Barrel length and choke are not to any real degree dependent on each other . A full choke gives the same percentage pattern with a 25inch barrel as it does with a 30 inch. There is an old theory that long barrels increased velocity but this was mainly a hangover from the blackpowder days when the gunpowder used required extra time to burn.

[Zapp]

Barrel length and choke are not to any real degree dependent on each other . A full choke gives the same percentage pattern with a 25inch barrel as it does with a 30 inch. There is an old theory that long barrels increased velocity but this was mainly a hangover from the blackpowder days when the gunpowder used required extra time to burn.

 

 

Agreed.

 

ZB

[pigeon chasser]

Barrel length and choke are not to any real degree dependent on each other . A full choke gives the same percentage pattern with a 25inch barrel as it does with a 30 inch. There is an old theory that long barrels increased velocity but this was mainly a hangover from the blackpowder days when the gunpowder used required extra time to burn.

so does a longer barrel not increase range like a tighter choke would all on nitro powder???

[utectok]

I never understood this either why doesn't the barrel lenght make any diffrence? A 90 ft barrel might tighen it a bit?

[pigeon chasser]

I never understood this either why doesn't the barrel lenght make any diffrence? A 90 ft barrel might tighen it a bit?

all im understanding now is that the longer the barrel the more the explosion (as it were) gets a chance to push the shot out faster before leaving the barrel and getting gouverned by how big it spreads by the chokes. is that right?

[utectok]

Barrel length and choke are not to any real degree dependent on each other . A full choke gives the same percentage pattern with a 25inch barrel as it does with a 30 inch. There is an old theory that long barrels increased velocity but this was mainly a hangover from the blackpowder days when the gunpowder used required extra time to burn.

Also why do these high pheasant nuts and extreme wildfowlers shoot 32-34" barrels they might as well shoot 25" guns if the patterns the same ??

Edited April 10, 2010 by utectok

[flyboy197]

Also why do these high pheasant nuts and extreme wildfowlers shoot 32-34" barrels they might as well shoot 25" guns if the patterns the same ??

 

Umm chaps that's all not quite correct...

 

The propellant used in light weapons burns rather than detonates. Even though it is in theory burning it goes pretty quick and creates hot expanding gases both due to the conversion of solid to gas and to the heat expansion of the gases. The wad in the cartridge acts as both a carrier for the shot and as an obturating ring (i.e. stops the gas going round it), the breach seals the other end.

 

So what... Well peak barrel pressure is achieved just after the propellant burns and as the wad starts moving down the barrel. As the wad accelerates down the barrel pushing the shot in front of it the over pressure in the barrel decreases (not good enough to insert a graph but you hopefully you get the idea!). Basically the energy transferred to the shot is related to the area under the graph so extra length gives more energy to the shot and makes it go further. However... length early on when the pressure is high is more important than length later on and the returns decrease rapidly so going from 20 to 25" may have the same increased energy effect as going from 30" to 50" (made up numbers to demonstrate the point). OK so this basically means that longer barrels = greater range or energy in round / shot for a given distance. Carbine rifles have much slower rounds at the same distance that full length will have typically of the order of 33% less. It may have some effect on patterns but not much...

 

Choke on the other hand deliberately reduces (or exceptionally widens) the bore towards the exit. A well designed choke gathers the shot that is being pushed by the wad and gathers it together into a smaller bore concentrating the resulting shot string. Clearly it is not entirely as simple as this as the shot are all interacting with each other and there are so many that it is impossible to model without using probability. This means that every shot will be slightly different with the same carts and chokes just because of the random variations that you can't eliminate.

 

The long and the short of it is that length = increased range or stopping power at a given range but with diminishing returns as length increases. Choke = modified patterns by gathering the shot into a different bore size for the same muzzle energy.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Flyboy

[Dekers]

Also why do these high pheasant nuts and extreme wildfowlers shoot 32-34" barrels they might as well shoot 25" guns if the patterns the same ??

 

 

Generally, as already said, it is a matter of diminishing returns, a longer barrel will deliver a tighter group and throw things a little further..ALL BEING EQUAL...but this is very slight.

 

Choke is another animal altogether.

[pigeon chasser]

Generally, as already said, it is a matter of diminishing returns, a longer barrel will deliver a tighter group and throw things a little further..ALL BEING EQUAL...but this is very slight.

 

Choke is another animal altogether.

so in laymens terms am i right in what i last said?

[Dekers]

I've always wondered if you shorten the barrell length and increase the choke size would it have the same affect as lenghthing the barrel and decreasing the choke...

For instace would a 30" barrel with 1/4 choke be the same as a 28" barrel with half choke.

 

 

Generally, as already said, it is a matter of diminishing returns, a longer barrel will deliver a tighter group and throw things a little further..ALL BEING EQUAL...but this is very slight.

 

Choke is another animal altogether.

 

 

so in laymens terms am i right in what i last said?

 

In laymans terms NO!

 

Sorry, it just doesn't stack up that way, the barrels whould have to be much further apart length wise than that with a fixed distance target to get a similar pattern...don't ask me how long, but much more than 2" different!

[Guest cookoff013]

choke and barrel size is very immaterial trying to compare the two in performance.

someone tried telling me a 36-38" barrel would make you shoot 50% better than my 28" setup.

 

`cos it whacks `em `arrrrd.

 

a 38 " barrel? ***?

 

i`d like to actually go down in the barrel size. a 24" would be really cool.

[pigeon chasser]

choke and barrel size is very immaterial trying to compare the two in performance.

someone tried telling me a 36-38" barrel would make you shoot 50% better than my 28" setup.

 

`cos it whacks `em `arrrrd.

 

a 38 " barrel? ***?

 

i`d like to actually go down in the barrel size. a 24" would be really cool.

but would you get the killing power at 40yards on 1/4 choke?

[Dekers]

but would you get the killing power at 40yards on 1/4 choke?

 

 

I'm getting a little confused where this is going....

 

Barrel length, Choke, now killing power at 40 yards...........Remember Cartridges have a lot to do with this.

 

A 21 9 will make a mess of you on the surface at 40 yards but you would be very unlucky to die, a SG with 9 balls of lead, each delivering just over 200ft lb of energy would very likely kill you, even if only 1 lump hit you!

[utectok]

Generally, as already said, it is a matter of diminishing returns, a longer barrel will deliver a tighter group and throw things a little further..ALL BEING EQUAL...but this is very slight.

 

Choke is another animal altogether.

Seems to me there is probably almost no diffrence the by making the barrel 2-6" longer shorter? Thanks for the replies guys. Really interesting! Cheers Will

Edited April 11, 2010 by utectok

[Dekers]

so does a longer barrel not increase range like a tighter choke would all on nitro powder???

 

A longer barrel or tighter choke will have VERY limited effect on range, possibly just a few inches.

 

Do not confuse range, and EFFECTIVE range.

 

If you condense the contents of your cartridge into a denser pattern, then more will theoretically hit your target, the more you put into a target at any distance the better chance you have of stopping it.

[CharlieT]

Barrel length as has been said has very little and in practical terms no bearing on the effective range of a shotgun. It has more to do with fashion and the point ability and swing different lengths impart on different users. Short barrels used at close to medium range will be much faster handling and point able then long barrels whereas long barrel tend to suit 60 yd high pheasants as their weight and feel give for a more deliberate swing. However, having said that very many good shots use short barrels at high birds and long barrels at 30 yard birds, it all comes down to personal preference.

 

The very idea of choke is to constrict the "spread" of the pellets to give an evenly distributed pattern of pellets (ie. with no gaps) at the range you wish to kill your target. Choke has nothing to do with the "power" of the pellet or the distance a pellet will retain its "power". Chokes can and should be regulated to produce a given patten irrespective of barrel length at a given distance, usually 40 yards. Therefore a gun with 25" barrels and 1/4 and 1/2 choke will throw the same patten as a 32" one with the same choke.

[clayman]

It seems the basics of what exactly "choke size" means is lost by many..

 

Choke size is not the designation written on the barrel or mobile choke, its whats delivered at the pattern board.

 

So, for instance, 1/2 choke means a 30" circle at xx yds for a 32" barrel, and 1/2 choke means exactly the same for a 24" barrel.

 

IF, by taking pre-designated mobile chokes and putting the same choke in longer or shorter barrels, the pellet distribution is increased or decreased, it means the choke is actually bigger or smaller than is written on it..

 

Choke is measured at the delivery point, not at the barrel.

Edited April 13, 2010 by clayman

[Delbert]

It seems the basics of what exactly "choke size" means is lost by many..

 

Choke size is not the designation written on the barrel or mobile choke, its whats delivered at the pattern board.

 

So, for instance, 1/2 choke means a 30" circle at xx yds for a 32" barrel, and 1/2 choke means exactly the same for a 24" barrel.

 

IF, by taking pre-designated mobile chokes and putting the same choke in longer or shorter barrels, the pellet distribution is increased or decreased, it means the choke is actually bigger or smaller than is written on it..

 

Choke is measured at the delivery point, not at the barrel.

Which is affected by the cartridge velocity load and shot size?

Beginers guide to chokes

[pbickerd]

So there is no reason to use anything other than 24inch barrels besides personal preference and the feel of it? Someone wouldnt be at a disadvantage besides getting funny looks?

[mikee]

Also why do these high pheasant nuts and extreme wildfowlers shoot 32-34" barrels they might as well shoot 25" guns if the patterns the same ??

 

longer barrels are easier to keep swinging, the extra length helps momentum and aids lining up on a target

 

mikee

[Lampwick]

So there is no reason to use anything other than 24inch barrels besides personal preference and the feel of it? Someone wouldnt be at a disadvantage besides getting funny looks?

 

Clear as mud for me then!

 

Could explain why I cant hit a barn door at blah!

 

Could somebody advise me please what chokes and cartridges I should use for a clay shoot with my Silver Pigeon 5 30" ? please

 

Should I have both barrels with the same size choke etc?

 

Please make it simple if it can be.

 

Ian

[mikee]

choke and barrel length are not related at all, choke is the restriction in the muzzle and lenght is length, 1/4 choke in a 24" gun will shoot the same as in a 32" gun, personally i put 1/2 in both barrels and dont need to keep fanying about changing, 1/2 choke with the correct size shot will kill every pigeon and break every clay you shoot at if youre on it out to better part of 50yds

 

mikee

[pigeon chasser]

Is there a graph or something showing all of this because from what i can gather now it wouldn't matter if u had a 24inch barrel with half choke or a 32inch with half choke but that cant be right surely. i'm sure the longer the barrel the more effective range you would get depending on cartridge?