BASC or not?

[RossEM]

Sorry if this has been done to death but I haven't been on PW for a while.

 

Not intending to stir up trouble here but here's a question. I've never felt compelled to join BASC as it's always seemed like a sort of clique, and I was also put off by the high membership fees for which members seem to get little but a plush new HQ for the employees.

The CA has been established for a fraction of the time BASC/WAGBI has been but it seems to be a much, much stronger group? And look at the clout the NRA has in America, rightly or wrongly. In recent times BASC failed on the handgun ban and the lead shot over wetlands/on wildfowl - I'm sure they do a lot of good for shooting in terms of PR, but now with the recent controversy over the lead advisary group I've been off for good.

In light of this, I'm interested to find out what your thoughts are & how many of you members are going to cancel/not renew your BASC membership?

 

Cheers all,

 

Ross.

[Graham M]

I have absolutely no doubt that BASC will pull out all the stops to engage with MPs and other high ranking government officials over this issue.

They will produce facts and figures thoroughly discrediting, all, and any, evidence to the contrary…………before bending over and giving it all away on our behalf.

 

 

 

 

After all “We must be seen to be doing the right thing”. (John Swift on the subject of shooting tests)

 

 

G.M.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Graham M

[Terry P]

In my opinion BASC are the best for my needs,they are the organisation that I believe stand up for the shooting man,why do BASC get the blame for losing everything. Were they the only group fighting to save the ownership of handguns,lead over wetlands etc,probably not,so why heap all the blame at their door,and if they were,where were all these other well organised groups when you needed them.

 

The CA have only fought for one thing and they lost that,yet no one seems to slate them.This will turn into yet another BASC bashing thread which unfortunatly this otherwise very enjoyable site is becoming famous for.Just as one thread bemoaning how rubbish they are drops off the page another one starts,strange that eh.

 

Who cares whos leaving,whos staying,what group your a member of or my dads bigger than your dad,lets just enjoy the sport and support who ever needs the help at a given time.

[Cranfield]

Sorry if this has been done to death but I haven't been on PW for a while.

 

Yes, this subject has been done to death and a quick use of the "Search" facility will find you 10 pages to choose from.

Incidentally, its only 10 pages because the system limits the "Search" to 1000 responses.

[Glenshooter]

Sorry if this has been done to death but I haven't been on PW for a while.

 

Not intending to stir up trouble here but here's a question. I've never felt compelled to join BASC as it's always seemed like a sort of clique, and I was also put off by the high membership fees for which members seem to get little but a plush new HQ for the employees.

The CA has been established for a fraction of the time BASC/WAGBI has been but it seems to be a much, much stronger group? And look at the clout the NRA has in America, rightly or wrongly. In recent times BASC failed on the handgun ban and the lead shot over wetlands/on wildfowl - I'm sure they do a lot of good for shooting in terms of PR, but now with the recent controversy over the lead advisary group I've been off for good.

In light of this, I'm interested to find out what your thoughts are & how many of you members are going to cancel/not renew your BASC membership?

 

Cheers all,

 

Ross.

 

Go with CA. You've already convinced yourself.

 

CA are on the lead advisory group as well. Strikes me we're in a lot better position having the big shooting organisation and the biggest hunting organisation on the advisory group than just the RSPB etc etc

 

The lead issue has been done to death many many times. Check the websites of the organisations and choose what suits you best.

[discreet hunter]

Who is this CA or what does CA stands for

[Boromir]

Who is this CA or what does CA stands for

 

Countryside Alliance.

 

BASC have there heads to far up there own *****, so no membership from me.

[discreet hunter]

Thanks, i need some shotty insurance so i am watching this space

[Pinkfooty]

The CA has been established for a fraction of the time BASC/WAGBI has been but it seems to be a much, much stronger group?

Ross.

 

You are kidding on both counts, I take it.

 

CA is hardly a newcomer. It was established in the 1920s (I think) as the BFSS , so it is nearly as old as BASC.

 

CA stronger than BASC?? Tell me one fight that they have won for shooting and I'll tell you 10 times as many fights that BASC has won for shooting.

 

To be fair to the CA, it is really a foxhunting organisation and only courts shooters to try and get some extra subscriptions. If you are a foxhunter but not a shooter then, no doubt about it, CA is the organisation for you.

[Glenshooter]

To be fair to the CA, it is really a foxhunting organisation and only courts shooters to try and get some extra subscriptions. If you are a foxhunter but not a shooter then, no doubt about it, CA is the organisation for you.

And if you are a foxshooter but not a 'foxhunter' (on horseback) and want to join the CA, don't tell them you shoot foxes.

[RossEM]

Sorry, I should've guessed this has been discussed previously. WILL USE THE SEARCH ENGINE NEXT TIME.

I suppose I'd rather there was one organisation for all fieldsports disciplines. I'm not bashing BASC, just questioning what they offer that others can't? What do they do that others don't? How do they form policy? Etc etc.

The point about them failing on lead shot & hanguns - fair enough, there are lots of other organisations who also failed. I don't mean to cause offence to any BASC members and frankly I'd like to be proved wrong with this.

[Glenshooter]

The point about them failing on lead shot

 

How have they 'failed on lead shot'?

[MC]

What you REALLY need to remember is that to fail at something means you had to have tried in the first instance. The CA, NGO etc didn't fail with the handgun ban or with the lead shot on wildfowl issue for one plain and simple reason, they did nothing to start with. Your car will never ever fail an MOT if you don't take it for a test.

 

I am truly gobsmacked at the supposed wildfowlers on here who say they won't support BASC.

 

Believe me the phone call I had with one of the BASC employees made me absolutely sure that the BASC is the ONLY way to go.

 

BASC is worth every penny they charge in fees, and the day you need them will make you realise that.

[mossy835]

go with the basc, and save your sport

[Popgun]

BASC every time :o

[JRDS]

I jacked BASC and joined the NGO years ago, BASC are far to politically correct and self serving for me.

 

Don't trust them an inch not to capitulate on Lead.

[chrispti]

I have used BASC's services.

 

More than helpful would be an understatement ............... and Im still shooting :o

[anser2]

The Countryside Alliance come over as a bunch of bungling toff armatures compared with the other major shooting organisations. All brash and no substance. There are far better organisations for shooting out there , just run through their websites and see which one has achieved real success for shooting and which ones boast much , but have delivered almost nothing. If you are mainly a fox hunter maybe the CA is for you , but if your a shooter who wants to see reasoned argument and join a organisation who has a very good track record of helping their membership and looks forward to the future of your sport look elsewhere.

 

Ross the way your post is framed suggests you are realy touting for promoting the CA. So I feel free to promote BASC. I have been a member of BASC for more than 40 years and though I have had my ups and downs with the organisation I have never seen any other shooting organisation that measures up to them and would not begrudge a single penny they have had from me in membership fees.

Edited May 22, 2010 by anser2

[webber]

If all you want is insurance? there are a number of organisations who will relieve you of a membership fee.

 

If you want to protect and promote shooting, and receive insurance as part of the package, there really only is one organisation to consider, and thats BASC.

 

webber

[Salopian]

If you are a true sportsman you will join every organisation that will support your sport.

Obviously no organisation can be all things to all men. BASC concentrate on game shooting and wildfowling leaving hunting to the CA and clayshooting to the CPSA.

Where BASC goes wrong in my opinion is in believing they are bigger than their members.

Many of the staff are inexperienced in their field and do not seem accountable to their management. The Board has always been manipulated by peer groups and this is why you see a steady flow of enthusiastic amateurs through the board. It is noticable that many of these 'failures' bleet in the letters page of Shooting Times.

I do take exception the way that HQ railroad things through without finding what the membership feels through opinion polls.

The Media Centre is one case of an expensive waste of membership money.

I would have preferred that money to have been spent on buying Doveridge, moving the HQ to central England, near to the Motorway links, owning their own clayground to promote shooting and a training facility, near to a Deer Management facility (Castle Donnington) or more access to the foreshore.

Instead we get an expensive white elephant. What on earth was wrong with the internet, faxes, telephone and video confererancing?

[webber]

Gents

 

An edited version of the letter copied below was page 10 of this weeks Shooting Times.

 

webber

 

Sir

 

RE Humphreys - v – BASC Divorce.

I read John Humphreys piece on his decision to leave the BASC fold after half a century of membership, support and benefit with interest and a degree of disgust.

I have read the vast majority of John’s articles in ST over the past 20 years or so, only skipping on his fishing tales which are of no interest to me. I’ve purchased several of his books, and to a degree considered John as something of a shooting guru, but no more.

 

I am however afraid that the article published 5th.May has caused me to re evaluate John Humphreys and his articles; John has lost my support, and given the recent bout of what I consider to be hostile BASC editorial I am currently seriously considering ceasing my long standing Shooting Times subscription. I am a regular subscriber to a popular shooting based internet forum, and am aware that there are several who have already done so. I do wonder if the new editor of ST is attempting to plough his own furrow to make something of a name for himself with the aim of following in the foot steps of one of his predecessors by landing a cushy job at Countryside Alliance.

 

Over his half century of BASC membership John and others of his long standing will have witnessed many changes in shooting and how it is conducted in Britain as politicians and antis have slowly turned the screw on the sport that we enjoy. Thanks to the foresight of Duncan Stanley and his successors we have had BASC to defend shooting, and our right to do so. We live in a fast changing world, and need a unified voice to defend wild fowling, the game shooting and game keeping that I love, pest control and the myriad of facets which combine to make shooting the sport that it is.

 

BASC don’t always get it right, I also felt that the National Pigeon Day was an error on their part, and I’ve carried on promoting it via Pigeon Watch. No one or organisation is perfect. I note from this weeks ST that F A C E are committed to banning lead for hunting on wetlands throughout Europe. I understand that D E F R A have instigated the lead consultative committee, I therefore feel that it is highly appropriate that the CEO of Britains largest shooting organisation should chair its meetings. Two of the member organisations have already presented dubious alleged evidence that lead shot in shot game is dangerous. The body will sit and discuss lead shot, with or without input from BASC, I wonder if John Humphreys would care to suggest an alternative chairman, or is he lining himself up for the job to supplement his meagre teachers pension.

 

Through my work in the LPG industry I have visited several game farms over many years, I have witnessed first hand the raised cage system, didn’t like what I saw, but accepted it as method of production, but was more at home with the traditional methods of egg production; I was therefore pleased when BASC made the moves that they did to seek to eradicate its use in Britain, and I support the effort wholeheartedly.

 

John Humphreys may well join another organisation which will provide adequate insurance cover, but will they really support shooting in the manner that BASC does?

The firearms department alone at BASC is manned by more personnel than some organisations can muster on their entire staff. When it comes to bang for your buck, BASC wins by a factor of around 10.

 

Having glanced through this weeks ST I note that there is not a single BASC advertisement. I wonder if BASC have voted with their wallet. If this is the case, and its membership also withdraw support for ST, I would not like to be in a position of trying to explain to publishers why advertising revenue and readership have plummeted.

 

 

John Webster

AKA webber

St. Helens

[dazza]

Why is it so many people are leaving BASC and joining the likes of the CA and SACS etc? Or is this just a rumour? Lots of members I spoke to at the game fair said they would not be renewing their membership.

[Christopher Graffius]

As a member of BASC staff I try to stay off these threads - not very successfully - and only respond when I think there's something key to say.

 

So first, what do we mean by failure? Shooting, like everything else, changes due to natural, social, economic and political factors. The test of BASC's success isn't, it seems to me, how different shooting is now from when WAGBI was formed in 1908. It's how free are we to continue to go shooting. There are various ways you can measure this. You can compare us with other countries and the UK has been far more successful in preserving a remarkable amount of varied shooting than many other countries. In some ways shooting is in better health than it was in 1908, it's far more accessible to more people now. Social change, the advent of the car, the need to earn more from land rents opened up the market for small syndicates which means that game shooting is the sport of the many not the few. BASC played a key - but not the only - role in this process.

 

The pistols ban was a major defeat for shooting. I didn't work for BASC then, but I've looked closely at what happened in the hope of learning the lessons for when we have the next firearms related SIMK (Single Incident Mass Killing). The interesting thing is that the two key Tory Ministers responsible for the ban - Michael Forsyth and Michael Howard - were keen game shots on some rather smart shoots. I don't think either were BASC members and don't know if they were members of other organisations. BASC, co-operating with other organisations, fought the ban every inch of the way and contributed through their evidence and lobbying to the fact that the Cullen Inquiry into Dunblane didn't recommend a ban. The Tory government was naturally pro-shooting, but they were also unpopular and facing an election. Public pressure for a ban was considerable. The crunch point came when Tory interests within shooting (not within BASC) began to worry more about their party than other shooters' sport. These people didn't shoot pistols so a ban wouldn't affect their sport. One of their leading figures commented in a ministerial meeting that "Pistols are not a gentleman's weapon." That was it for pistols. BASC was left picking up the pieces- they secured the exemption for pistols for humane dispatch, which BASC has been to court on several occasions since to preserve. So I think it would be unfair to blame BASC for the pistols ban and more realistic to blame division in shooting, public opinion and political ambition.

 

I can tell you what's happened on this since I became responsible for lobbying for BASC. When we drafted the first ever Labour Charter on Shooting we included a promise to review the pistols ban. A shooting magazine who had an advance copy gave it to another shooting organisation who leaked it to a Scottish journalist who called Scottish MPs for comments on reversing the "Dunblane" ban. Bang went our promise of a review. I've lost count of the meetings I've had since with the Home Office and Department of Culture Media and Sport on pistols.I've held three meetings in parliament on reversing the ban and - with the target shooting organisations - we secured a limited ability for international competitors to practice in Britain prior to the Olympics. There are assurances which BASC lobbied for from the current government to widen this exemption. Again division within the shooting organisations has slowed the process down.

 

I can promise you that we'll continue working on this. Because of the sensitivities involved we won't shout about it. The main aim at BASC is not to be seen to be acting but to secure the best result for shooting.

 

This point about division is important to think about when you hear calls for a new gameshooting organisation. That might secure more money for smaller organisations but it would make game shooting very vulnerable. There's strength in unity within shooting and what unity there is is within BASC.

 

Christopher

[Christopher Graffius]

Salopian,

 

I think you're wrong but don't want to write another essay! Instead, if you live in Salops I invite you to come over to the Mill and meet the expert staff. BASC is the only organisation that invests in staff expertise to man their advisory services, we're not just a PR operation as with so many organisations. We can also talk about the costs of moving office, a major one would have been the expertise we would have lost - the estimates suggested half the staff. I can explain Council governance, BASC's unique democratic structure and show you the new Duke of Edinburgh building and its facilities. You can then report back on here. Give me a call on 01244 573 045.

 

Christopher

[Christopher Graffius]

Dazza,

 

Recruitment and retention is part of my communications team. As you can imagine we're watching it very closely at present. I can tell you that the number of resignations can be counted on your fingers. We had a record year for membership last year and we've beaten budget in every month so far. Last week - and it's the low point in the cycle - three game shooting syndicates joined up, two of which had been disaffiliated before, one for six years.

 

I am aware that other organisations haven't been so fortunate - a 16% fall is not something that any organisation wants combined with a massive fall in fundraising. That may explain some of the gossip and recruitment initiatives you see in other parts of the market.

 

I'm confident (but not complacent) that BASC will maintain the critical mass necessary to fight for shooting.

 

Christopher