17 HMR for fox

[the running man]

Wheres the facts then?

 

I have shot many many rabbits at WAY over 125 yeards and I find the FURTHER away you shoot them the MORE chance you have of the round going ballistic!!

 

I shot one at 170+ last week that virtually had no head, witnessed.

 

How many rabbits have you ACTUALLY shot with the hmr? I have found that I get les fussy about head shots at ranges of 150+ and a lot of what i shoot at the longer ranges is only good for ferret food!

 

 

I have also shot foxes out to 240 with the hmr, all witnessed, single shot and very dead, I dont normally take them at this range buit this ****** was killing sheep and we couldnt get him in any closer, slight hold over Ie aimed at his neck, bullet smack bang in the engine room, FACT!! witnessed and measured by someone on here!

 

Why have i not printed this before? Fed up with people that rarely get out of thier armchairs sprouting tish!!!

 

This fellow was 225yards, aimed at top of ears...smack bang on the nose, are you seriously going to tell me that bullet didnt expand?

 

 

All this bull that people sprout about the hmrs effectiveness at 125 yards or dont go beyond 150 is utter rubbish....the only thing stopping you from shooting greater distances is YOU!

 

Im the wrong hands the hmr is can be inneffective on foxes and while i have shot many with the hmr...they were not in Essex and as Essex wont allow a hmr for foxes i now have a .222, which Im sure that once I get to grips with it and have had as much experince with it as I have the hmr then I will push the ditances with that, I have already shot a measured and witnessed 298 yard kill.

 

 

 

 

Its pointless quoting ballistics at me, Im not an anorak, I just go out and DO!!!

I bet u never took that shot free standing unsupported!

[Evil Elvis]

Are you mad? Of course not, i rarely ever take a free standing shot, 99% of my shots are off the pod!!! lying prone! However there was a tree with a very thick branch that was the perfect height for me and i used that, I had shot lots of rabbits from it previously.

[Frenchieboy]

I am not prepared to get involved in any debate concerning the use of a 17HMR on foxes but what I will say is that I believe that the humble little 17HMR is well capable of taking out Charlie cleanly and humanely - as long as you are aware of it's limitations and you place the shot correctly.

I use a 17HMR regularly and have a lot of confidence in both my rifle and my shooting but I recognise that both I and my rifle do have limitations and it is always possible to "Pull a shot" occasionally (Something that if we are going to be honest we have all done at some time or other) which is why I would rather see a centrefire used for foxes unless it is just an "opportunist" shot and well within the limitations of the rifle and (More importantly) the shooter! However, even after making that last statement I personally would not consider taking a shot at Charlie with my 17HMR at any range over 100 yards, but that is a personal choice and my way of showing that I have respect for my quarry, I am not saying that the rifle is not capable of doing the job correctly and humanely but I do know my limitations!

[wildfowler.250]

Hold on guys, i reckon it's got more to do with ammo manufacture, they're not all alike, i use federal, and i think it's quite low powered compared to remington. i tried some rounds out for comparison last week, hornady blue tip were the softest, followed by federal v max, the remingtons were the hardest hitting and were the only round to go through a 3mm stainless plate at 75 metres, they all went through at 25 metres. i didn't try them any closer or with thicker material, at a guess i would say 3mm S/S is equivalent to 6mm mild steel. However, i would struggle to believe that any hmr round would go through 10mm of steel, my 22/250 wont do that at 10m with remi 50gr soft points, norma 50gr hornady, winchester 55gr sx3's, or remi 55gr core loct.

 

I got a couple of boxes of remingtons a while ago: From that small ammount of bullets I've had a few ricochets which I haven't had with other makes. I chest shot a rabbit at 100 yards and he unfortunately got away,(obviously wouldn't have lasted long but it puts you off). And yesterday I shot a v. small rabbit and there wasn't even an exit wound!!

 

I have to say I agree with both sides of the arguement, close range is fine. beyond 100 I'd be seriously questioning myself.

 

 

Main problem with the HMR is ammo inconsistency, I prefer winnies and hornady reds

[Highlander]

Long range or should I say ‘claimed’ long range shooting should really have little place in a true ‘hunters’ repertoire.

 

The recent (well late 2009) case of Corporal Craig Harrison’s world long distance sniper record is well documented and proves that you can take a rifle and cartridge (albeit an outstanding one) and do extraordinary things with them, well beyond their (usually) recognised capabilities. However that doesn’t mean we should all be attempting similar things on our quarry species. It might be OK on Taliban but NOT on animals. If you want to show off how great you are and big yourself up with long distance shooting use targets OR coke cans. Take it to the range! When live quarry shooting field craft should be your raison d’etre!

 

As for using .17HMR on foxes...well I have when occasion demanded it BUT it isn’t my rifle of choice. Same as I wouldn’t (by choice) use a .243 on big game.

[the running man]

Are you mad? Of course not, i rarely ever take a free standing shot, 99% of my shots are off the pod!!! lying prone! However there was a tree with a very thick branch that was the perfect height for me and i used that, I had shot lots of rabbits from it previously.

ah-ha,I too have a fave branch! I don't use a bipod on my 17 anymore,just can't be botherd,if its anymore than 50 meters ish ile go prone,if I can be botherd! I don't use the hmr on fox,personal choice.

[Evil Elvis]

Lol, its funny how once you get to know your shoot where the "handy" branches are!!!

[Evil Elvis]

Long range or should I say ‘claimed’ long range shooting should really have little place in a true ‘hunters’ repertoire.

 

I only "claim" a shot if i have witnesses.I also have a bushnell yardage pro to accurately measure the distance.....believe what you want to believe,

 

if you make claims that are unsubstantiated or untrue the only one you are fooling is yourself.

[Paddy Galore!]

I only "claim" a shot if i have witnesses.I also have a bushnell yardage pro to accurately measure the distance.....believe what you want to believe,

 

if you make claims that are unsubstantiated or untrue the only one you are fooling is yourself.

I shouldn't worry if it's substantiated or not EE, you know whether you hit it or not, if it's a clean kill or not, if you'd muffed up the shot then you'd hardly tell the tale on here.

atb,

gram.

[coupe312]

I am not prepared to get involved in any debate concerning the use of a 17HMR on foxes but what I will say is that I believe that the humble little 17HMR is well capable of taking out Charlie cleanly and humanely - as long as you are aware of it's limitations and you place the shot correctly.

I use a 17HMR regularly and have a lot of confidence in both my rifle and my shooting but I recognise that both I and my rifle do have limitations and it is always possible to "Pull a shot" occasionally (Something that if we are going to be honest we have all done at some time or other) which is why I would rather see a centrefire used for foxes unless it is just an "opportunist" shot and well within the limitations of the rifle and (More importantly) the shooter! However, even after making that last statement I personally would not consider taking a shot at Charlie with my 17HMR at any range over 100 yards, but that is a personal choice and my way of showing that I have respect for my quarry, I am not saying that the rifle is not capable of doing the job correctly and humanely but I do know my limitations!

 

i agree horses for courses and all that.

if i'm after charlie out come the 22-250 or the .243. If mr fox comes to what i feel is a suitable range when out rabbiting ( or crow shooting like last time) but this is because it was a good situation and a range i felt more that able to shoot the 17 hmr to ensure a clean kill.

i don't feel the 17 hmr is the right tool for the job but it is able to do it. Foxing should be done with a round that has a better transfer of kinetic energy a greater rangers.... ( pick your own personal range).

i personal wouldn't shoot at the range many people have quoted on here with a 17hmr.

the 17hmr is a great gun but it ain't super do everything

[Evil Elvis]

if you'd muffed up the shot then you'd hardly tell the tale on here.

 

Maybe not anymore, i did confess to having to shoot one fox more than once when i tried the fmj hmr ammo....the solution was simple...i have never used it since!

[njc110381]

Even the most conservative of shots can go wrong now and again. It's our job to make it as unlikely as possible but anything involving human skill can occasionally come up with errors!

 

I've had some stunning shots on Foxes with my HMR. The best I remember was at stupidly short range on a rough night when I was after bunnies. The Fox came out of the hedge I was lying by and walked towards me. I led still and took off the safety and just waited. He got that close I had to turn the rifle on its side and sight down the barrel! He was maybe five yards away. I should have fired earlier but I was that surprised at how close he was coming that I completely forgot about actually seeing him in the scope. When I tried it was just a ginger blur!

[MC]

Here we are,

 

Just to dispell the myth about armour piercing .17HMR rounds These photos were taken last night after I shot a piece of 6mm thick plate and a massive distance of 10 feet.

 

Front of plate

 

 

And back of plate

 

 

The impact dent was not even a millimeter thick

Edited June 4, 2010 by MC

[bullet boy]

The .17HMR is effective for Fox as I have known myself.I did sell my .17HMR though in favour of a .22-250 Centrefire rifle for Fox.

[al4x]

funnily enough MC we tried it at point blank range last night and it made it through about 3mm steel and blew up into powder, first time I've seen one explode

[Evil Elvis]

just to dispell the myth about armour piercing .17HMR rounds These photos were taken last night after I shot a piece of 6mm thick plate and a massive distance of 10 feet.

 

That doesnt dispel anything except that you endangered yourself by firing too close at a piece of metal!.

 

What make of round was it?

 

Why so close?

 

 

 

Raja shot at a piece of steel at least that thick the other night, and it did far more damage than that!!!! He was using hornadays.

 

 

try it again at a safer distance of 30 yards?

 

 

I was using remingtons which were the very old batch i bought from Bob, the hornady do no-where near as much damage, and when I get a chance I have some new remingtons to try out and see if the myth about them being more powerful and then being reduced is true or not.

 

incidentally, as you are so obsessed with my previous posts, when i first shot the steel plate on another shoot, you will rememer ( no doubt) that bionicle and I shot almost identical hmrs ( mine has a 21" barrel, his has a 16" barrel. When he shot the metal, it left a mark, similar to the one that you have photographed, where as my round went through. But being as though it was some one else other than you....you wont believe it, even if Bionicle told you to your face, you wouldnt believe it, because only you could possibly be right?

 

My friend john that andy kmnows, used an old incinerator as a back stop, 5mm stell sides, with at least a 4 foot gap.........the rounds went straight through the first side and some dented the second side, some went through.....now mr knoweverythingtheristoknowabouthmrballistics explain that? 5mm steel...which is harder than rabbits bones, foxes bones ect...but DIDNT go ballistic, simply zipped straight through both sides..........now this happenned, but you being the self proclaimed god of ballistics will tell me that this never happenned and that John is also a liar

 

Fatcatsplat has seen me shoot through thicker material than you have posted there.....but you wont believe him and actually called him a liar to his face.

 

So were all liars and you are the all knowing expert on EVERYTHING!!!!

 

funnily enough MC we tried it at point blank range last night and it made it through about 3mm steel and blew up into powder, first time I've seen one explode

 

Why havent you called Alex a liar? according to your "test" the hmr would even penetrate 1mm.....and heres an upstanding member of the community saying...3mm........

 

HOW CAN THSI BE POSSIBLE?

Edited June 5, 2010 by Evil Elvis

[Evil Elvis]

hERE WE GO:

 

Was out vermin shooting with bionicle early this am. On one of our shoots they have just installed a galvanised steel fence along the railway line. They left several squares of metal lying around, approx 4-5mm thick, I casually commented that I wondered what sort of damage a hmr round would do. So we stood one up with a very good back stop and stepped back approx 20-25 yards.

 

My first round went straight through which suprised us both!!!

 

Then Bionicle shot next to it and the bullet just shattered and left a tiny dent.

 

Must have been a fluke.

 

So I shot it again, and again it went straight through and again bionicles didnt!!!

 

His third shot didnt either...............

 

We then shot a cm thick peice. miine made a significany dent in it, bionicles dented it but no-where near as deep.

 

Heres the weird part, We have the same gun, cz silouhettes. we used the same ammo, remington magnums.

 

The ONLY difference is mine has a 20" barrel his has a 16" which we understand loses about 300fps compared to the 20" barrel....but is that enough to make a difference?

 

And will his gun kill prey as affectivley as mine? hmm1.gif

 

This post has been edited by Evil Elvis: Jan 2 2009, 06:46 PM

 

 

But hey....we must be lying cos MCGODCOMPLEX said so........................

[Dekers]

hERE WE GO:

 

 

 

 

But hey....we must be lying cos MCGODCOMPLEX said so........................

 

 

Chap, you have highlighted the apparent difference in HMR ammo which is more than a little surprising as the spec of ALL the 17g ballistic tips is about as identical as it is possible to be.

 

Normal HMR will NOT perform in the fashion you say, so you have a very special load!

[Evil Elvis]

Had!!! I can no longer repeat that feat as I have used all 500 of them. However i can do a side by side comparison, next time I go to my shoot with the hmr, i will attempt to shoot hte same steel plate with the new remington ammo from the same palce and see if it goes through.

[MC]

That doesnt dispel anything except that you endangered yourself by firing too close at a piece of metal!.

 

What make of round was it?

 

Why so close?

 

 

 

Raja shot at a piece of steel at least that thick the other night, and it did far more damage than that!!!! He was using hornadays.

 

 

try it again at a safer distance of 30 yards?

 

 

I was using remingtons which were the very old batch i bought from Bob, the hornady do no-where near as much damage, and when I get a chance I have some new remingtons to try out and see if the myth about them being more powerful and then being reduced is true or not.

 

incidentally, as you are so obsessed with my previous posts, when i first shot the steel plate on another shoot, you will rememer ( no doubt) that bionicle and I shot almost identical hmrs ( mine has a 21" barrel, his has a 16" barrel. When he shot the metal, it left a mark, similar to the one that you have photographed, where as my round went through. But being as though it was some one else other than you....you wont believe it, even if Bionicle told you to your face, you wouldnt believe it, because only you could possibly be right?

 

My friend john that andy kmnows, used an old incinerator as a back stop, 5mm stell sides, with at least a 4 foot gap.........the rounds went straight through the first side and some dented the second side, some went through.....now mr knoweverythingtheristoknowabouthmrballistics explain that? 5mm steel...which is harder than rabbits bones, foxes bones ect...but DIDNT go ballistic, simply zipped straight through both sides..........now this happenned, but you being the self proclaimed god of ballistics will tell me that this never happenned and that John is also a liar

 

Fatcatsplat has seen me shoot through thicker material than you have posted there.....but you wont believe him and actually called him a liar to his face.

 

So were all liars and you are the all knowing expert on EVERYTHING!!!!

 

 

 

Why havent you called Alex a liar? according to your "test" the hmr would even penetrate 1mm.....and heres an upstanding member of the community saying...3mm........

 

HOW CAN THSI BE POSSIBLE?

I was going to leave this alone but you really do not have a clue do you? On thursday night I shot a scaffold pole foot plate from 10 yards, this was 3mm thick and the bullet went right through leaving a clean hole, the plate was propped up against a stack of tyres and all there was on the tyre was a dust mark and one small piece of copper.

 

I then found a piece of 6mm plate and as you claimed to have shot through 10mm plate I thought I would try that. I shot in from 10 feet as the round would be at a stable speed at that point and if I went out to 30 yards as you say then the bullet would be slower, unless of course yours accelerate when they leave the barrel as well as defying gravity.

 

The impact dent was less than 1mm thick, this doesn't mean that it wouldn't penetrate 1mm off steel. There is a huge difference in the stuctural integrity of 1mm, 3mm and then 6mm steel.

 

Have a look at this link and scroll down to Armour piercing, you will see the limits of a 7.62round at 300 and 500 yards, maybe the British army ought to take .17s ought to Afghanistan to take out tanks, or rather they ought to take yours as more powerful than anyone else.

 

7.62mm ammunition

 

I do not claim to know everything about ballistics but it seems I know a little more than you.

 

I have a 300 yard range sitting waiting for you or anyone else to try and hit the base of a coke can, if will even lay down the gaunlet and say that you won't be able to do it with 5 shots, while we are they you can show me your 280 yard cast with a carp rod.

[Evil Elvis]

I then found a piece of 6mm plate and as you claimed to have shot through 10mm plate I thought I would try that. I shot in from 10 feet as the round would be at a stable speed at that point and if I went out to 30 yards as you say then the bullet would be slower, unless of course yours accelerate when they leave the barrel as well as defying gravity.

 

 

I suggested 10mm as thats what i thought the pattern plate was at our club, its not, its 2 sheets welded together, one is 4mm one is 3mm, but my round goes through it. Im sorry if me exaggerating by 3mm ****** you off so badly. I was think ing of matts boys safety...double what you need...makes it safe!

 

Fatcat has seen said plate, seem me shoot through it............but hes a liar too.

 

I have been challenged to hit a coke can....no one said end on, no one said in 5 shots. simply a coke can at 300 yards, for a bit of fun, but you have to take thing a bit further obviously as Cat no longer bites at the MC treatment you have chosen for some reason to give it to me now.

 

Casting ....Im no longer testing Diawa rods, and will not risk blowing up one of my remaininig 3 diawa dictators just to prove you wrong,I dont have a spare £245, and would never be able to afford to replace them. if it makes you feel better, then Im lying, ok? feel better?

 

You claim to know more than me about ballistics....I claim to know **** all. But i can hit a rabbit at 300 yards with a .222 with relative ease as Im sure plenty of people on here could, but because you read in a book that it cant be done....I must be lying, so is Tyler and so is Bionicle.

[MC]

I can't remember ever reading a book on ballistics, I have no need to. All my experience is range and field based. You obviously have difficulting believeing that someone doesn't believe you but I have tried the steel plate test and so did Nigel, I took a photo and showed it on here yet you still claim that your HMR is more powerful than most centrefires.

 

Oh yes, I am so upset that Cat doesn't play anymore I thought I would pick on you.

 

You did not suggest 10mm plate, you suggested 20mm as you had shot through 10mm plate, and when challenged about it you back pedal to 7mm which is still not possible, apart from in Thurrock.

 

Also it may be me being pedantic but if you use to test DAIWA rods you would know how to spell it. Why should casting blow one up?

 

5 shots is ample to hit a coke can for a marksman of your abilities, after you would get 5 shots at a rabbit so why would you need 5 at a coke can. You can have it standing upright if you want as you still won't do it.

 

As said in my PM, the range is waiting for you.

[Evil Elvis]

I have shot at rabbits and never at coke cans, why impose a 5 shot limit?

 

 

Also it may be me being pedantic but if you use to test DAIWA rods you would know how to spell it. Why should casting blow one up?

 

Compressing it to its limit, i had several 6-7 piece dictators before they released them.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Evil Elvis

[CharlieT]

MC

 

Are you selling tickets to this shooting extraviganzer of yours.

 

If so can you put me down for one seat in the front row please.

[MC]

MC

 

Are you selling tickets to this shooting extraviganzer of yours.

 

If so can you put me down for one seat in the front row please.

 

 

There is no point Charlie,

 

The main attraction has bottled it, he was given the chance today in perfect conditions but couldn't make it. I wonder why?