Buzzard

[ollie]

Excellent post chap

 

I regret it's a waste of breath though. I've tried this angle. There are those that want everything dead if it's not a ******* Pheasant. :o

 

They're too blind to see that the public don't care about their shoot and they refuse to accept that they should share the countryside with birds that belong there.

 

Sparrowhawks have always been there "hammering" the songbirds (it's called natural predation). I don't accept that natural predators are bringing about the decline in songbird numbers, but we've been here before, soooooo many times :blink:

 

It's academic anyway, the law is the law.

 

I can assure you that I absolutely don't want everything dead that is not a pheasant. I am more than happy to see a few buzzards (or other birds of prey) on my shoot; however, when there are as many as 7 in the air at the one time (which I have saw on quite a few occassions) I think it's out of hand. Also regarding the Sparrow Hawks; is it just a coincidence that every year the Sparrow Hawk population is increasing while the songbird population is decreasing?

 

You are very correct in that the law is the law and there is not very much we can do about it.

[Bing-Bong]

Thank You Chard, I did expect flack and am pleasantly surprised.

 

 

Also regarding the Sparrow Hawks; is it just a coincidence that every year the Sparrow Hawk population is increasing while the songbird population is decreasing?

 

Ollie, what we have to understand here is that the sparrowhawk is at the top of the food triangle for it's given ecosystem. That is to say that the first thing which is affected by the decline in songbirds is the sparrowhawk. Songbirds decrease then so do sparrowhawks. It's called an ecological barometer. There is only ever as many sparrowhawks as there is songbirds to feed them, period.

 

Many more things are affecting songbirds other than the humble spar. Modern farming methods are having drastic affects on the populations, although this is trying to be addressed in the newer HLS and ELS funding systems available to farmers. Modern insecticides and pesticides reduce the amount of food available to the next creature up in the triangle, its these insects and micro organisms that are at the bottom of the triangle, and every thing above will be affected. Including songbirds.

 

Oh and if you believe the stats on how many songbirds are eaten each year by sparrowhawks, and lets get one thing clear, it's only the male that predates on these, then I can assure you that if these figures were true the bird would be so fat, it would be unable to fly. The female predates mainly on pigeon and dare I say it partridge, along with dove and other similar sized birds. It would not be a common occurence for a female sparrowhawk to take on a fully grown pheasant as the risk of injury is to great, and injury to these birds means death.

 

Has any noticed how many magpies, jays and crows there are nowadays. Now there's your problem. Certainly in my area, we are overrun, but thats ok because they dont actively prey on our poults, and its sod the songbird population until we want to control birds of prey. Have any of you ever watched these masked maruaders work a hedgerow stealing young and eggs. It's funny how we try to justify our own means by jumping on the conservation bandwagon when it suits us. Doesnt any one realise that releasing hundreds of thousands of pheasants and partridges into the countryside each year at the time when the songbirds need to stock up on food for the winter months has an effect. Or am i mistaken, the game birds dont eat insects and seeds. I know of one local farm that releases 45000 birds into land which can only sustain 12000, you do the maths. You only have to drive the roads round their estate to see where they lose their birds and why the Buzzard does so well, remembering that it is predominantly a carrion eater.

 

That brings me on to the next big predator of songbirds, the domestic cat, how many households has one of these cuddly killers. Makes the 800,000 sparrowhawks a little insignificant doesn't it.

 

We too run a small syndicate, and yes you can afford to lose a "few" birds, as I said before it is their right to be there, we are the guests.

 

Rant over,

 

Darren

[Eskdale hawks]

Thank You Chard, I did expect flack and am pleasantly surprised.

 

 

 

 

Ollie, what we have to understand here is that the sparrowhawk is at the top of the food triangle for it's given ecosystem. That is to say that the first thing which is affected by the decline in songbirds is the sparrowhawk. Songbirds decrease then so do sparrowhawks. It's called an ecological barometer. There is only ever as many sparrowhawks as there is songbirds to feed them, period.

 

Many more things are affecting songbirds other than the humble spar. Modern farming methods are having drastic affects on the populations, although this is trying to be addressed in the newer HLS and ELS funding systems available to farmers. Modern insecticides and pesticides reduce the amount of food available to the next creature up in the triangle, its these insects and micro organisms that are at the bottom of the triangle, and every thing above will be affected. Including songbirds.

 

Oh and if you believe the stats on how many songbirds are eaten each year by sparrowhawks, and lets get one thing clear, it's only the male that predates on these, then I can assure you that if these figures were true the bird would be so fat, it would be unable to fly. The female predates mainly on pigeon and dare I say it partridge, along with dove and other similar sized birds. It would not be a common occurence for a female sparrowhawk to take on a fully grown pheasant as the risk of injury is to great, and injury to these birds means death.

 

Has any noticed how many magpies, jays and crows there are nowadays. Now there's your problem. Certainly in my area, we are overrun, but thats ok because they dont actively prey on our poults, and its sod the songbird population until we want to control birds of prey. Have any of you ever watched these masked maruaders work a hedgerow stealing young and eggs. It's funny how we try to justify our own means by jumping on the conservation bandwagon when it suits us. Doesnt any one realise that releasing hundreds of thousands of pheasants and partridges into the countryside each year at the time when the songbirds need to stock up on food for the winter months has an effect. Or am i mistaken, the game birds dont eat insects and seeds. I know of one local farm that releases 45000 birds into land which can only sustain 12000, you do the maths. You only have to drive the roads round their estate to see where they lose their birds and why the Buzzard does so well, remembering that it is predominantly a carrion eater.

 

That brings me on to the next big predator of songbirds, the domestic cat, how many households has one of these cuddly killers. Makes the 800,000 sparrowhawks a little insignificant doesn't it.

 

We too run a small syndicate, and yes you can afford to lose a "few" birds, as I said before it is their right to be there, we are the guests.

 

Rant over,

 

Darren

At last!!! Some with a brain! Well put both times Darren! :o :blink:

[Bing-Bong]

At last!!! Some with a brain! Well put both times Darren! :o :blink:

 

Well it's about time the victorian ethos of "anything with hooked beak, tooth or claw" died a death. It has no place in this modern world. Not if we are to survive.

[jimbo30]

Our release pen is sutuated in the middle of a natural england wood which we lease the rights to. We have had several poults taken by buzzards which nest in the woods. Id rather loose a couple to a buzzard which leaves nothing left compared to a fox that would kill everything! Some keepers seem intent on eradicating all non game species but can you imagine what would happen if some old couple out for a walk witnessed someone blasting a protected bird out of a tree! We wouldnt need to worry about pests as there would be no shooting allowed!! People need to get real and accept the fact that birds of prey will take poults?

[Chard]

Also regarding the Sparrow Hawks; is it just a coincidence that every year the Sparrow Hawk population is increasing while the songbird population is decreasing?

 

Yes

 

I don't believe the decline is related to Sparrowhawk populations at all. More likely spraying insects, spraying weeds, habitat loss and disturbance.

 

Predation by poxy animals that shouldn't even be here are more likely to have an effect. Domestic cats and grey squirrels for instance, are not natural predators. They shouldn't be here and should be eradicated from the face of the earth

[ollie]

Yes

 

I don't believe the decline is related to Sparrowhawk populations at all. More likely spraying insects, spraying weeds, habitat loss and disturbance.

 

Predation by poxy animals that shouldn't even be here are more likely to have an effect. Domestic cats and grey squirrels for instance, are not natural predators. They shouldn't be here and should be eradicated from the face of the earth

 

I agree about the cats; hate the ******** .

 

Bing-Bong I know that Magpies and Crows have a great deal to do with the decline in songbirds and also their effects on game bird eggs, that is why I try my best to control them. I know we are going to have to agree to disagree, we obviously have different views on this topic, but you have to understand that I love seeing BOP in our countryside and have absolutely no interest in the mindless slaughter of them.

[Bing-Bong]

I agree about the cats; hate the ******** .

 

Bing-Bong I know that Magpies and Crows have a great deal to do with the decline in songbirds and also their effects on game bird eggs, that is why I try my best to control them. I know we are going to have to agree to disagree, we obviously have different views on this topic, but you have to understand that I love seeing BOP in our countryside and have absolutely no interest in the mindless slaughter of them.

 

 

Fair comment Ollie, the world would be a boring place if we all agreed. My view point comes from many years studying BOP and the effects that man has had on them, eradication, DDT, habitat destruction and so on. The birds really havn't had a good time of it over the years for one reason or another. We all know what goes on out there, and I appreciate your comment, it enrages me that the people who do indulge in that mindless activity continue to get away with it. But as always its proving the crime, and its here that the stumbling block occurs. I have been at certain shooting organisation meetings and the officials and the gamekeepers are openly admitting their activities like its some badge of honour and all having a laugh about it. I wonder if they would still be laughing with the huge penalties involved and ending up someones bitch in the nick . Sometimes I feel like selling my guns to distance myself from it, it makes me that sick , but then if some people listen to some common sense then some good is done .

 

Plus I love the shoot and all that it entails, so I would be cutting my nose off to spite my face if face if I hung my guns up.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Bing-Bong

[Simon Clarke]

An interesting debate, gents. and timely.

 

Follow this link to see a rambling letter which was printed yesterday in the Northumbria Gazette. We are sending in a response. You may wish to do so as well, particularly if you're up in the area. Warning: The letter will have you spitting feathers........(hopefully not buzzard)

 

regards

 

Simon

[al4x]

Interesting concept shoot them all and they magically reappear the next year.

 

i have to say round us they do come and go, one day you'll have a dozen but you may not see another for a month or more. Personally I don't mind them but round us it does appear that they don't seem to co-exist with smaller birds of prey and the Kestrels and Sparrowhawks seem to not be about in the numbers there were

[ollie]

An interesting debate, gents. and timely.

 

Follow this link to see a rambling letter which was printed yesterday in the Northumbria Gazette. We are sending in a response. You may wish to do so as well, particularly if you're up in the area. Warning: The letter will have you spitting feathers........(hopefully not buzzard)

 

regards

 

Simon

 

Thanks for the link. Have to say it is horribly one sided. If the author of the letter had spent that much time around Head Keepers he/she would know that they don't blast grey partridge out of the sky on the 'Inglorious Twelve'.

[Sprinter]

Thanks for the link. Have to say it is horribly one sided. If the author of the letter had spent that much time around Head Keepers he/she would know that they don't blast grey partridge out of the sky on the 'Inglorious Twelve'.

 

Yes usually well researched "facts" like that usually and correctly put all the other facts in doubt to readers with half a brain. Sadly the hand wringing, tree hugging, squirrel loving, bird watching uneducated townie will swallow all as gospel and start heating up the tar and ordering the faux feathers from ebay.

[M ROBSON]

These lazy Buzzards certainly wouldn't be fast enough to kill a wading bird!!!

 

 

Do none of you remember this?

 

Buzzards don't hunt live birds!

 

 

When I first read it the week it happened I fell off my chair laughing!! especially as it was right in front of dozens of bird watchers who constantly deny that Buzzards kill other birds.

 

Mark.

[Eskdale hawks]

These lazy Buzzards certainly wouldn't be fast enough to kill a wading bird!!!

 

 

Do none of you remember this?

 

Buzzards don't hunt live birds!

 

 

When I first read it the week it happened I fell off my chair laughing!! especially as it was right in front of dozens of bird watchers who constantly deny that Buzzards kill other birds.

 

Mark.

 

"Experts say the moment is "Unprecedented" as Buzzards -although Britains largest bird of prey- Rarely attack other Birds"!

Truely amazing! But the "experts" seem to be misguided, 1) as to what Britains largest bird of prey is? I always thought it was the White tailed Eagle, But I may be wrong? And 2) Buzzards do take Small birds on a fairly regular basis! the Grey Phalarope is one such small bird. The photo also gives a clear indication of the size of the Buzzards feet in relation to its prey. Short, stubby toes, means it is not equipped to deal with prey items much bigger than a partridge!

Edited August 14, 2010 by Eskdale hawks

[OCD]

I am surprised that not one reply in this thread has mentioned the correlation between the weather and a buzzards diet, the unusually long period of dry weather during peak pheasant release has driven more buzzards to killing poults than any other factor.

This year I have suffered increased buzzard predation and this is simply down to a lack of other naturally available food for the growing buzzard young.

[eric parker]

At the moment we're losing ~ 200 chickens a cycle (2200 birds) to buzzards, this is much higher than usual. Most are taken at around 3-5 weeks old, maybe due to weather, but there are also a lot of rabbits about. Chickens are slow and stupid, and a scarecrow is helping, for now anyways.

When do buzzards raise their chicks? spring? Will there be lots of fledging young now?

 

Cheers, Eric

Edited August 14, 2010 by eric parker

[Reece]

We don't release poults, we release adult birds. But we still have had one or two raptor related problems. Nothing major yet, but the farmer has seen a buzzard holding a pheasant. We're lucky because at our shoot, there is lots of natural cover, which tends to hide a lot of game birds from potential avian predators.

 

Apparently, you can get a raptor repellent which is a small metal shiny ball which spooks raptors and scares them away. But it probably can spook game birds as well.

[Eskdale hawks]

I am surprised that not one reply in this thread has mentioned the correlation between the weather and a buzzards diet, the unusually long period of dry weather during peak pheasant release has driven more buzzards to killing poults than any other factor.

This year I have suffered increased buzzard predation and this is simply down to a lack of other naturally available food for the growing buzzard young.

[/quote

 

" The unusually long period of dry weather, during peak pheasant release has driven more buzzards to killing poults than any other factor". WHY? please explain!

There has been an abundance of " Natural" Prey items available! Certainly in my part of the world, anyway.

[OCD]

It is not that hard to understand the severe winter has had a profound affect on small mammals in this area and this is shown by small mammal counts conducted here then the prolonged dry period has affected silage crops the late first cut followed by a very late second,Tall crops impact on the ability of buzzards to find food and the hard ground and lack of farmers conducting ground working all serve to increase predation of game birds.

 

If the buzzards can,t find rabbits because of long grass and there is a general lack of small mammals how would they feed young???

[Eskdale hawks]

It is not that hard to understand the severe winter has had a profound affect on small mammals in this area and this is shown by small mammal counts conducted here then the prolonged dry period has affected silage crops the late first cut followed by a very late second,Tall crops impact on the ability of buzzards to find food and the hard ground and lack of farmers conducting ground working all serve to increase predation of game birds.

 

If the buzzards can,t find rabbits because of long grass and there is a general lack of small mammals how would they feed young???

 

Rabbits usually inhabit areas that are well grazed by sheep and cattle! Their numbers fluctuate greatly with the effects of Myxamatosis and VHD (Viral Heamoragic Disease) as well as natural predation as we all know, but there are usually more than enough around. So the theory be the late silage harvest should not affect the availability of this food source! The hard winter may well have had an effect on small mammals? I would have thought that the best indicators for this would be the Barn Owl and Kestrel Whos numbers do not seem to be affected? It is prolonged wet weather that affects the Barn Owl as its plumage is not waterproof and thus it can not hunt efficiently. Even in hard times there is usually enough roadkill around to keep the Buzzards going.

The reason that the buzzards are attracted to the release pens is obviouse! Suddenly there is an abunance of "easy" food right on the doorstep. One day nothing the next day several hundred potential easy meals!!! The release of gamebirds happens to coincide with the breeding/rearing season of many countyside preditors, IE: foxes and Badgers, Tawny Owls, Buzzards, Goshawks and Spars etc.....

Changes in Farming practices also have been proven to affect wildlife in many different ways. The biggest by far is habitat destruction, pestisides and weedkillers. Hedgerows being ripped out to make bigger, more proffitable fields? Pesticides and weedkillers have profound effect at the very source of the natural food chain. Need I go on?..........

Oh! And one final thing... Only a blind Buzzard would not be able to find rabbits! Their eyesight is 7 times better the ours and can see prey over a mile away! So spotting a rabbit in long grass from above shouldn't present to much of a problem for them!

[OCD]

I can,t understand why you have taken an emotional stance on my opinion you seem to want to start an argument perhaps you think your self an expert I made a reply which is in MY OPINION why THIS AREA has seen increased predation YOU no nothing of the area in which I live yet you seem to have all the answers and I guess by your use of exclamation marks wish to ram your opinion down my throat or it could be that you are just a **** with an axe to grind.

[CharlieT]

Just a daft observation from a humble farm worker but how come when I put out rabbits for the buzzards they ignore them completely much preferring to catch their own poult or search for slugs and voles.

 

It is very rare round here to see a buzzard feeding on a rabbit but an extremely common sight to see them feeding on avian prey. Perhaps it's because in this area there is an abundance of wildlife and catching rabbits is just to much like hard work.

 

When cutting silage it is normal to have double figures feeding in the field and begrudgingly moving out of the tractors way on the next pass. I have in the past accidentally run the odd one over because it refused to move out of the way in time.

 

As I type there is a very light one sitting on the electric pole in the yard outside my office window, as he does every day, eyeing up a couple of red legs gritting on the gravel outside the stables. He will be there for the next hour or so before resuming his interest in my poults mid afternoon.

 

I don't know weather to get the camera or .22 out .

[Eskdale hawks]

Just a daft observation from a humble farm worker but how come when I put out rabbits for the buzzards they ignore them completely much preferring to catch their own poult or search for slugs and voles.

 

It is very rare round here to see a buzzard feeding on a rabbit but an extremely common sight to see them feeding on avian prey. Perhaps it's because in this area there is an abundance of wildlife and catching rabbits is just to much like hard work.

 

When cutting silage it is normal to have double figures feeding in the field and begrudgingly moving out of the tractors way on the next pass. I have in the past accidentally run the odd one over because it refused to move out of the way in time.

 

As I type there is a very light one sitting on the electric pole in the yard outside my office window, as he does every day, eyeing up a couple of red legs gritting on the gravel outside the stables. He will be there for the next hour or so before resuming his interest in my poults mid afternoon.

 

I don't know weather to get the camera or .22 out .

 

Why do you intentionally put rabbits out for the Buzzards or any other bird of prey for that matter? As said before they cannot tackle prey much larger than partridge! Camera or .22? Not the best policy to start mentioning .22 is it? Just get shooting and gamekeeping an even worse name than it already has? Is it not about time attitudes change? Hopefully for the better. I shoot as well as practice Falconry and I have a happy medium that keeps me on the right side of the law! Unlike some it would seem!!!!

Edited August 15, 2010 by Eskdale hawks

[Eskdale hawks]

I can,t understand why you have taken an emotional stance on my opinion you seem to want to start an argument perhaps you think your self an expert I made a reply which is in MY OPINION why THIS AREA has seen increased predation YOU no nothing of the area in which I live yet you seem to have all the answers and I guess by your use of exclamation marks wish to ram your opinion down my throat or it could be that you are just a **** with an axe to grind.

No emotional stance, Not a **** with an axe to grind, But I do think that attitudes towards raptors should change. There has been a rise in instances of Raptors being needlessly poisoned or shot, something that the Gamekeeping and Shooting fraternity do not need. You are of course quite right, Indeed I may know nothing of the area in which you live, but the harsh weather that you stated affected the whole country did it not? Therefore it is relavent. I don't want to "ram" my opinion down anyones throat. There are people on these forums that maybe should take a step back, look at the bigger picture and think! Instead of be so narrow minded.

[CharlieT]

Why do you intentionally put rabbits out for the Buzzards or any other bird of prey for that matter? As said before they cannot tackle prey much larger than partridge! Camera or .22? Not the best policy to start mentioning .22 is it? Just get shooting and gamekeeping an even worse name than it already has? Is it not about time attitudes change? Hopefully for the better. I shoot as well as practice Falconry and I have a happy medium that keeps me on the right side of the law! Unlike some it would seem!!!!

 

 

It's called diversionary feeding, putting a few split rabbits and other tasty morsels around the release pens to try to stop them eating my pheasants. Anythings worth a try and some people have some success with this method.

 

Believe me they can and do tackle much larger prey than a partridge so I don't see why they can't tackle a dead paunched rabbit when they can take a live adult pheasant.

 

Had you bothered to read my post you will have read that I see that particular buzzard perched on that post every day and it would be apparent to anyone that I enjoy seeing it.

 

I am always amazed that some will never acknowledge that buzzards do cause economic loss to shoots, particularly when they abound in very large numbers. Personally I love to see them about and I am prepared so subsidise their existence with money from my own pocket and together with a little habitat management the damage they do can be mitigated by the pleasure they give me. However, I am not so blinkered to believe that all they eat is carrion and slugs.

 

Do you really think that if I was of a mind to shoot one I would advertise the fact on here.

 

I am astonished that you think game keeping has a bad name, I was of the opinion that game keeping, particularly to those in the know like yourself, achieved an awful lot for conservation and habitat. Our keepers put out dozens of owl, bird and mammal boxes, many in their own time, which together with the conservation seed mixes on headlands and in odd corners round the farm together with vigerous vermin control helps a vast amount of wildlife.

 

Surely you don't believe all the rubbish the RSPB spouts.