Ricochets

[kent]

These threads always scare me are there that many FAC holders that lack comprehensive knoledge of such matters

[JMW]

cb longs can still ricochet, they have about 30 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle, ideal for squizzers/roosting crows or close range stuff, they don't go far when they do fly off tho which is the bonus. H/V rounds still ricochet and go further than the subs. Why don't the cb longs work in your B/A cz but do work in your semi 10/22?

 

Not sure why but they just don't group in the CZ. The 29 grain CCI won't cycle in the 10/22 so you have to eject each round manually but they do group. There isn't anything wrong with the CZ rifle because once I put some regular subs through it groups were fine.

 

Jon

[al4x]

Yes but it won't answer the question as unfortunatly the ones it does produce have fearsome extra damage potential. Wouldn't take a shot with HMR that i wouldn't with .22 lr for this very reason. Seriously FAC air is the tool you seek for this sort of work, second hand PCP's sell for about 30-40% lower than the same gun in 12ft lb and most have done less work

 

 

the funny thing is I would use my HMR where I wouldn't use a .22lr, for the simple reason that hitting hard ground usually fragments the bullet anyway but even if you did get a ricochet at maximum it is under half the weight than the .22lr so carries far less energy to travel anywhere. I used to use a LR and gave it up on our ground we have one horse field with a corrugated Iron barn at the back of it and the LR I had an evening when every single shot used to go zing then bang as it hit the barn 50 yards away. As it was full of straw and the farmer shoots with me it makes an excellent backstop but thats not what I want when lamping bunnies. The HMR simply has never done the same I have heard the very occasional ricochet but nothing that sounded like it travelled.

Really the only advice with LR's is be very careful we shoot off a pickup so the angle into the ground isn't bad but even on grass fields the bullet will bounce

[kent]

the funny thing is I would use my HMR where I wouldn't use a .22lr, for the simple reason that hitting hard ground usually fragments the bullet anyway but even if you did get a ricochet at maximum it is under half the weight than the .22lr so carries far less energy to travel anywhere. I used to use a LR and gave it up on our ground we have one horse field with a corrugated Iron barn at the back of it and the LR I had an evening when every single shot used to go zing then bang as it hit the barn 50 yards away. As it was full of straw and the farmer shoots with me it makes an excellent backstop but thats not what I want when lamping bunnies. The HMR simply has never done the same I have heard the very occasional ricochet but nothing that sounded like it travelled.

Really the only advice with LR's is be very careful we shoot off a pickup so the angle into the ground isn't bad but even on grass fields the bullet will bounce

 

It's just the "usually fragment" bit i have issues with myself. I have experianced an apperently safe shot go through a rabbits chest failing to fragment then hit something hard and unseen behind the rabbit possibly a stone again failing to fragment it fairly screamed off. The fall out range was still within my ground and no damage was done but it worried me. I now treat all the powder burners the same as you just never know. It only takes one shot to go wrong to totally spoil your day, the thing is ricochets are by nature difficult to predict. There are things we can do to lessen the risk but taking a shot with one calibre rifle that you wouln't take with another is just one step too far for myself personally nowadays (excluding air power)

[Paddy Galore!]

These threads always scare me are there that many FAC holders that lack comprehensive knoledge of such matters

knoledge?

[vmax55]

has nobody mentioned the backstops??? if you got a decent backstop then the risk of a ricochet isnt too much of a problem is it . and if your that worried of a ricochet then your not 100% sure of a safe shot so dont pull the trigger.

[snozzer]

has nobody mentioned the backstops??? if you got a decent backstop then the risk of a ricochet isnt too much of a problem is it . and if your that worried of a ricochet then your not 100% sure of a safe shot so dont pull the trigger.

 

Thats the key, making sure your fallout area is adequate for the shot.

[Paddy Galore!]

has nobody mentioned the backstops??? if you got a decent backstop then the risk of a ricochet isnt too much of a problem is it . and if your that worried of a ricochet then your not 100% sure of a safe shot so dont pull the trigger.

the problem with ricochets is they can fly off at any angle, there's a fair bit of worrygutting on this thread, but yes, a good backstop or open clear land will do. i'm not worried as long as there is plenty of clear land/woodland for the head to land in.

[vmax55]

the problem with ricochets is they can fly off at any angle, there's a fair bit of worrygutting on this thread, but yes, a good backstop or open clear land will do. i'm not worried as long as there is plenty of clear land/woodland for the head to land in.

 

exactly

[fortune82]

A couple of years back a guy near Dalbeattie in SW Scotland was out lamping with a .22 WMR. He fired a shot which apparently hit a rabbit, went through and bounced off something. It then went through the wall of a caravan where a family were sitting and lodged in the fridge door.

 

He lost his FAC and got a probation order. Take care with ricocheting bullets!

[dunganick]

The reality of shooting a .22lr is that you will get ricochets. Under any conditions pretty much, large parts of my land are very nice soft green grass. Perfect backstop material, however the ground also has a very high flint content, so you can take a shot into a bank and hit flint and a .22lr round will fly back out.

 

Simply you do your best to avoid it, but it is something you cant always predict, the only good thing is if you can hear the ricochet then the projectile is tumbling and with the poor ballistic performance of a tumbling projectile they rarely go more than 100 yards (i have land where i have seen ricochets land several times, just further up the field) The ones you want to worry about are the ones you don't hear. I recall an occasion where me and a friend were zeroing into a sloped field of grass used for running dogs on, so its very soft green grass with about 300 yards of climbing field behind it and we were shooting from ontop of a landrover. After about two shots a huge lump of tree comes falling down. The shots had been bouncing into the tree above the target, not making a sound.

 

The 17hmr suggestion was actually not a bad one. This round is a very frangible little round, it has impressed me in that respect and whilst it can of course ricochet (as anything including an airgun can) it is alot less common and if it does then due to its lower mass it is more likely to have lost alot of its energy and momentum as it struck the ground. As most of the rounds are ballistic tips they probably wont go much further than the first impact.

 

At the end of the day it is your certificate and your life, you need to judge the shots yourself, if your getting constant ricochets then i would use a shotgun or airgun.

[Mungler]

Anyone have any advice on how to reduce 22LR ricochets on a dry field?

 

Thanks

 

Jon

 

Use and HMR

[Zapp]

A good backstop is very important, but I would agree that knowing what is behind that backstop is also vital.

 

I have seen a lot of military calibre tracer enter the massive sand bank backstops on ranges and then leave the backstop at all kinds of crazy angles. We used to have to put out sentries at Ballykinler range in NI to watch for boats entering the fallout zone behind the backstops.

[al4x]

we had one many moons ago with a .22lr that went through a rabbits skull ricoched and hit a metal post behind it, left a good impression as well so yes fallout zone is important but like mungler I feel a lot happier with a bullet that is designed to fragment that weighs half the amount and is being driven fast, all those factors minimise the likelyhood of ricochets. Its one thing saying it can happen with all calibers but the reality is the likelyhood is far reduced with a quicker round and bullet designed to fragment

[Dunkield]

Your job is to do all you can to minimise it you will never eliminate it completely

I spent a day shooting at Sennybridge and was amazed to see 50 cal tracer ricocheting all over the place, and that was after hitting backstops

[willy1]

The curious thing in all of this is..most ,if not all Firearms Deparments and FEO's will allow a .22lr (or r/f) on first application, often not allowing a .17HMR or even a .22Hornet, both of which are a safer calibre with frangible bullets.

 

Curiouser and curiouser,(said Alice!)

 

 

 

Alan

[Dunkield]

I am not bashing all FEO's as mine is great, but <some> aren't all that technical

[willy1]

I'm not having a go at the FEO's,mine is brilliant,when a friend applied for his first FAC ,he put down .17hmr for fox,but, my feo said no to that and allowed a .22c/f (hornet). What i'm saying is, why allow a .22lr(with the inherent dangers and problems) when others are better?.

[dunganick]

Because a lot of FEO's with little actual shooting experience are under the illusion that a less powerful round is safer.

[Dunkield]

My friend applied for a .22lr

His FEO advised him to get an HMR, he said it was too noisy, the FEO told him to get subsonic ammo for it.

[willy1]

I went with a friend to meet the feo who was to check out some new land that we had.After checking he said that he would approve it "up to .22" . "great" said my friend,"I can use my.17hmr". "no you can't" said the feo" it's bigger than a .22".....

 

 

 

OH,WELL,some you win,some you don't.

 

We DID get it approved for .17hmr in the end AFTER explaining that .17 is SMALLER than .22.

 

 

Alan

[dunganick]

Either way projectile size is not relevant to safety. My sling shot fires .44 balls, but its not doing 3300 fps like a .223.

 

One of the issues with uneducated FEO's. But all you can do it try to educate them. I had to explain why the condition of shooting foxes whilst stalking was no use to me if i wanted to go lamping.

[kent]

My friend applied for a .22lr

His FEO advised him to get an HMR, he said it was too noisy, the FEO told him to get subsonic ammo for it.

 

So that would make it about 200fps faster than an off ticket air rifle In another employment that sort of daft comment would loose you your job on the basis of incompetance! When oh when will we get a civilian firearms enquiry office to handle licencing staffed by competant persons

[willy1]

Just a thought,in view of the recent tragic events and the setting up of a commitee to look at firearms licensing,it could be possble that one of the recommendations is that firearms licensing is given to a civilian commitee,and the feo's have to pass an exam before interviewing and deciding on applicants.IMO this would be a good idea,even if it means that more checks are done before a license is issued.

 

Alan

[al4x]

Just a thought,in view of the recent tragic events and the setting up of a commitee to look at firearms licensing,it could be possble that one of the recommendations is that firearms licensing is given to a civilian commitee,and the feo's have to pass an exam before interviewing and deciding on applicants.IMO this would be a good idea,even if it means that more checks are done before a license is issued.

 

Alan

 

 

exactly what the NGO have asked for in their response I believe