CPSA CEO

[David BASC]

I understand all this, indeed I asked the very question when it first came I and got this answer. i.e. non CPSA member cannot shoot non competition (commonly called birds only) at a CPSA registered shoot any more.

 

I accept that it costs the grounds plenty to put on a comp, and as far as I know this comes from their pocket, so to get their money back and make an operating profit the grounds needs a many people to shoot the layout as possible.

 

I still cant see what was the problem with the old system, let as many people shoot as possible, but make those who want to pay into a prize fund pay extra, those who are CPSA member can have their scores returned regardless of whether they are in the prize fund or not, and the others who are not CPSA member can shoot the layout for fun.

 

After all the vast majority of clay shooters are not out and out competition shooters, so making the spot too exclusive is likely to fail in my view.

 

Yes terminology is important, and surely everyone at the CPSA knows what the common parlance of ‘birds only’ meant? You know as well as I do that this caused confusion within grounds and among shooters…

 

We must get more people shooting, and making shoots too exclusive will not help.

 

But maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, as I guess the system as adopted works with more people shooting at registered grounds than before? After all that is the acid test for this initiative isn’t it.

 

Anyway , I guess this is one of the things that needs to be done with the new person in the charge, a bit of market research among grounds, members and ex members to see what their needs and wants are.

 

David

[Salopian]

Reality scenario:-

CPSA registered shoot =Competition and Birds only for members only = Dropping numbers/ decreased income.

Open practice anyone can shoot wether they are insured or not, not a very satisfactory state of affairs but unfortunately true.

Would it not be a good idea to have all shoots open to everyone and then the non-CPSA members could see how much we are enjoying ourselves and what a tremendous service we get from CPSA HQ and possibly rush out and join.

Can't wait for Pull to come out.

Have you seen the recent price increase on toilet rolls?

[Dekers]

PERSONAL RANT!!!!

 

Do we need the CPSA....WHY?

 

They have been a joke for years, they have lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned, been run by crooks with nothing but personal gain in mind, the Beretta Worlds gets more entries than any CPSA competition and the CPSA customer/member profile/service is ****.

 

Go to Bisley on a Sunday, one of the busiest days of the week.......CPSA CLOSED!!!

 

We have too many organizations in this county allegedly supporting the shooter, the majority have little but their own interests at heart and therefore have very little clout, the NRA crawls at the Governments feet and the CPSA........enough already...ok I feel better for that, now, where did I leave my tin hat?

 

PS

The word on the street is the role is already filled, the CPSA is just going through the motions!

 

 

The CPSA remit is to run domestic competition in the sport and to promote it.

 

Its existence benefits every-one who clay shoots whether they are members or not, as they represent the sport to legislators and enforcers. Without the group of NGBs that represent the fire-arms lobby and gun sports, it is very likely that the ownership and use of guns as we know it know would be very different.

 

I believe the current board is completely aware of reservations members and non-members alike have with regard to the quality of competition within the CPSA, and substantial improvements are likely to occur in the medium term.

 

The Board would have no desire to be accused if providing anything but a level playing field for any applicant to apply. External Professional recruitment screening is being used to ensure your criticism has no justification. The final appointment will be the board's decision following a screening and interview process of all applicants, and the person appointed will be the best in the view of a board majority decision.

 

I'm not looking for a debate on this and felt like a rant, (and feel another coming on) but I don't see too many people argueing with my comments!

 

and excuse me for being cynical.....

 

There speaks a man hoping to get a £65K Salary and the perks?!

 

...... when I asked.....

 

Do we need the CPSA....WHY?

 

I had in mind their future is of no consequence, they are in such a mess I believe they should throw in the towel and let someone else run things.

 

After all a certain gentleman already behind GMK and the prestigious and well respected Berettas tournaments in this country is more than helping them now. Hows that work then, some upstart comes along and whips the CPSA at their own game and then they have to go and ask him for help!

 

Plenty of other existing organisations could expand slightly, if required ,and do a better job than the CPSA in my view, frankly I struggle to see anyone could do worse looking at their last few years performance!

 

Just my opinion of course!

 

ATB!

[Catamong]

Hmmm....you obviously don't know much about the CPSA if you can't suss out why their Head Office doesn't open every Sunday..??

 

That's because like most organisations they work office hours, they're not based at Bisley simply to sell boxes of cartridges to weekend shooters who fancy a round of Skeet or OT.

 

What you will find however, are CPSA Regional Directors attending Championship shoots at weekends to give out the prizes and generally listen to what ordinary shooters have to say about the sport in general.

 

I'm the first to agree that there's room for improvement in the way the CPSA deals with its members, they're far from perfect, and the management Board still appears dominated by Tarp and Skeet shooters, as it's always been, but I believe that the conditions are in place for real change over the next few years..

 

I believe that they won't attract a really top quality individual whilst offering that sort of money, however, the reality is that's probably all they can afford, so it will be interesting to see who picks up the baton, (or poison challis, as it's turned out to be for many CEO's in the past).

 

The fact is, if you are a serious competitive clay shooter, you need to be a member of the CPSA, there's simply no alternative. Rival organisations have been set up in the past but they've all failed, most noticeably by the previous CEO, a real "Poacher turned Gamekeeper" tale if ever there was one.

 

The CPSA is also not losing members in droves, membership is still pretty constant at around 25,000, however attendance at major Championships continues to decline, I believe cost is an issue here, together with the insistence of the CPSA to use bad grounds that are already unpopular with shooters.

 

I used to be a member of both the CPSA and WAGBI, (now BASC), but ditched WAGBI after they withdrew support for a number of clay shooting events they'd previously promoted and supported. I now believe that there should be a stronger bond between the 2 bodies, and with FITASC as well, to broaden the appeal of clay shooting to all shooters.

 

Cat.

[100milesaway]

Hmmm....you obviously don't know much about the CPSA if you can't suss out why their Head Office doesn't open every Sunday..??

 

That's because like most organisations they work office hours, they're not based at Bisley simply to sell boxes of cartridges to weekend shooters who fancy a round of Skeet or OT.

 

What you will find however, are CPSA Regional Directors attending Championship shoots at weekends to give out the prizes and generally listen to what ordinary shooters have to say about the sport in general.

 

I'm the first to agree that there's room for improvement in the way the CPSA deals with its members, they're far from perfect, and the management Board still appears dominated by Tarp and Skeet shooters, as it's always been, but I believe that the conditions are in place for real change over the next few years..

 

I believe that they won't attract a really top quality individual whilst offering that sort of money, however, the reality is that's probably all they can afford, so it will be interesting to see who picks up the baton, (or poison challis, as it's turned out to be for many CEO's in the past).

 

The fact is, if you are a serious competitive clay shooter, you need to be a member of the CPSA, there's simply no alternative. Rival organisations have been set up in the past but they've all failed, most noticeably by the previous CEO, a real "Poacher turned Gamekeeper" tale if ever there was one.

 

The CPSA is also not losing members in droves, membership is still pretty constant at around 25,000, however attendance at major Championships continues to decline, I believe cost is an issue here, together with the insistence of the CPSA to use bad grounds that are already unpopular with shooters.

 

I used to be a member of both the CPSA and WAGBI, (now BASC), but ditched WAGBI after they withdrew support for a number of clay shooting events they'd previously promoted and supported. I now believe that there should be a stronger bond between the 2 bodies, and with FITASC as well, to broaden the appeal of clay shooting to all shooters.

 

Cat.

from Auntie

[Catamong]

Who's stupid..??

 

Cat.

[Dekers]

Hmmm....you obviously don't know much about the CPSA if you can't suss out why their Head Office doesn't open every Sunday..??

 

That's because like most organisations they work office hours, they're not based at Bisley simply to sell boxes of cartridges to weekend shooters who fancy a round of Skeet or OT.

 

What you will find however, are CPSA Regional Directors attending Championship shoots at weekends to give out the prizes and generally listen to what ordinary shooters have to say about the sport in general.

 

I'm the first to agree that there's room for improvement in the way the CPSA deals with its members, they're far from perfect, and the management Board still appears dominated by Tarp and Skeet shooters, as it's always been, but I believe that the conditions are in place for real change over the next few years..

 

I believe that they won't attract a really top quality individual whilst offering that sort of money, however, the reality is that's probably all they can afford, so it will be interesting to see who picks up the baton, (or poison challis, as it's turned out to be for many CEO's in the past).

 

The fact is, if you are a serious competitive clay shooter, you need to be a member of the CPSA, there's simply no alternative. Rival organisations have been set up in the past but they've all failed, most noticeably by the previous CEO, a real "Poacher turned Gamekeeper" tale if ever there was one.

 

The CPSA is also not losing members in droves, membership is still pretty constant at around 25,000, however attendance at major Championships continues to decline, I believe cost is an issue here, together with the insistence of the CPSA to use bad grounds that are already unpopular with shooters.

 

I used to be a member of both the CPSA and WAGBI, (now BASC), but ditched WAGBI after they withdrew support for a number of clay shooting events they'd previously promoted and supported. I now believe that there should be a stronger bond between the 2 bodies, and with FITASC as well, to broaden the appeal of clay shooting to all shooters.

 

Cat.

 

 

I think you will find the CPSA are missing one of the biggest tricks in the book, it's called marketing, they close when Bisley fills up with people! Bit of a problem joining an organisation, or being inspired by it, when it's closed?

 

And if you knew anything about Bisley you would know fully well that vast numbers of rifle shooters also have a shotgun, and they do not all just want to use it at the NCSC!!

 

ATB!!

Edited September 27, 2010 by Dekers

[paulos]

I think the cost of electricity and staffing hours by opening on a Sunday would far outweigh possible footfall revenue from potential members.

[Dekers]

I think the cost of electricity and staffing hours by opening on a Sunday would far outweigh possible footfall revenue from potential members.

 

 

Chap, they are based right at the gate, they are the first thing everyone sees as they drive in, you can't miss them, its called marketing? Yes, sell some carts and bags and clothes as well, why not, show the world they need the CPSA!

 

They also happen to be about the ONLY organisation at Bisley closed on a Sunday that I can think of, I'm sure someone will think of something else closed though!.

 

Like I said, before, bit of a personal rant, but the CPSA needs grabbing buy the scruff of the neck and a seriously good shaking!

 

ATB!!

[Mungler]

The decline and failure of the CPSA goes way beyond what's been mentioned in this thread.

 

Haybales thrive, BASC thrives and yet the CPSA is in decline.

 

The problem is the organisation appears riddled with infighting from top to bottom. It's just broken. How you would fix it, I dunno. I'm actually past caring because there's nothing in the CPSA for me - I get my shooting at Haybales (and annual PW competitions where I don't do too bad ) and I get the grown up stuff like insurance, technical support and a contentment that I supporting shooting by being a member of BASC. I have shot clays probably every weekend for the last 4 years and I don't need the CPSA. Ditto for the people I shoot with and all the people that go to the "banged out" haybales we attend each weekend.

 

I just wonder what the CPSA is supposed to be about and what market it is looking to service / secure. That chap Orac came up with a very nifty piece of software that enabled detailed analysis of CPSA membership and entries region by region.

 

The up shot was that most CPSA shooters joined for the first year, shot one registered competition and were then never seen again. And repeat year on year.

 

The hard core of gobby CPSA shooters, whilst the most active at registered shoots were in a very small minority of actual membership.

 

So, is it a case of the active and gobby 1% making the CPSA unappealing to the 99% or do the 99% just don't give a ****?

[David BASC]

Cat,

 

I agree with you, and I hope the CPSA do move forward and hope we can work together to promote clay shooting to more and more people, get more people into the shooting grounds etc.

 

As to competition shoots, a bit of a niche market to be honest but there are always more than one way to skin a cat (no pun intended) to make it a more attractive to people who may not be familiar with competition shooting.

 

After all from the grounds point of view they need more people shooting, in many cases, to help income, from the UK point of view we need fresh talent coming in to take medals in international competition, so a proactive plan to get more people into shooting grounds is what’s needed.

 

All organisations go though troubled times, but often come out the other side stronger, I think this should be the case with the CPSA.

 

How they grow from 25,000 to say 30,000, 35,000 and beyond is another matter, but retaining existing members is key, so that’s where I would start, assessing why members leave, Based on some of the latest market research, only 14 % of people will stop buying if they are dissatisfied by the service and only 9% will stop based on price, 3% move away and at least 1% of your customer base will die in any one year

 

Obviously these figures may shift a bit, especially if you are in an aging market where death (or physical inability) starts to climb up the rankings!

 

Most members will leave for other reasons, but without research you will not know why and you will not be able to do anything about it.

 

But let’s hope the new CEO is in place very soon.

 

David

[shaun4860]

I left the CPSA when i stopped shooting registered shoots.....

 

I explained that i wanted to swap to "clubman" membership as i may want to shoot the odd one at my local registered ground, which is allowed under clubman membership,

 

I had a phonecall with a chap who explained i couldnt do that and had to leave then rejoin a year later (i believe this has changed now)

 

I asked him if they were prepared to lose a member in the hope i would rejoin a year later.

 

He said yes and i never rejoined.....

 

Sad state of affairs...

 

Shaun

[Chris Bb]

As I only currently shoot "straw bale" shoots I am a Clubman member solely for the insurance.

 

I realise that there are highly competitive members out there who need full membership but would suggest that the majority of British clay shooters fall into my category. Is there a breakdown of Full/Clubman membership?

 

Looking at all the local "straw bale" shoots the sport is growing apace, most are now becoming oversubscribed with ever growing queues every Sunday and more and more "learners" in said queues. At the same time we appear to be suffering more and more from "antis", noise complaints, etc. and we could use an organisation such as CPSA to assist/support us.

 

Apart from the insurance, the CPSA offers me nothing, it appears to be solely targeting the regional/national competitor and ignoring those of us who shoot purely for fun and social reasons, certainly "Pull" is read in ten minutes, a shame as it could be more informative/entertaining for the rank and file.

 

Jerry, I believe you are applying for all the right reasons but would suggest you wear wax chaps as I believe that, if you get the job, you'll be urinating into the prevailing weather. I don't see the job advert as the board requiring someone to turn around their existing methods/beliefs. It appears that they solely wish to increase revenue, I note that the applicant is not required to have any interest in the sport!

 

In conclusion, I see a need for an organisation more aimed at the less competitive clay shooter. My pals and I keep to the "straw bales" as we don't wish to be caught up in the competitive scene and avoid CPSA grounds for that reason. We may well be wrong, but we have our favourite few shoots which meet our needs. It would be nice, however, to feel that we had an organisation interested in our version of the sport.

 

Just my £0.02 worth.

[Mungler]

 

Says it all really.

 

The CPSA is out of touch with the majority of shooters (regular straw balers) and newbies.

 

I reckon far more newbies have their first go at a straw bale - who know what they are being taught and the qualifications of the coaches but they turn up, blast a few off, don't kill or maim anyone and then come back for more. It therefore appears to work.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Mungler

[Chris Bb]

 

Says it all really.

Thank you.

 

The CPSA is out of touch with the majority of shooters (regular straw balers) and newbies.

 

I reckon far more newbies have their first go at a straw bale - who know what they are being taught and the qualifications of the coaches but they turn up, blast a few off, don't kill or main anyone and then come back for more. It therefore appears to work.

Now there's a point I hadn't thought of! My favourite shoot teaches "have a go's" every Sunday but I ceretainly don't believe that any of the instructors are CPSA registered. Certainly CPSA was never mentioned to me when I was learning, what a missed opportunity for the CPSA.

[Mungler]

Indeed, my two best strawbales every Sunday have a practice stand that is block booked out. This stand is for instruction, practice, first timers and the stag do's - it also stops the other stands being clogged up with newbies.

 

Anyways, there is always a queue about 10 people deep at the stand and they pay a fair whack for instruction and 50 clays. I reckon that practice stand turns somewhere between a monkey and a bag of sand in cash every week. A nice little earner as we say in Essex.

 

And yes, not a CPSA sticker in sight.....

[100milesaway]

I shoot alot at straw balers, i also shoot at CPSA registered events and i don't understand the need to feel that you have to be in any particular camp to ENJOY your shooting. Horses for courses, as long as its safe. from Auntie.

[Canis]

 

Says it all really.

 

The CPSA is out of touch with the majority of shooters (regular straw balers) and newbies.

 

I reckon far more newbies have their first go at a straw bale - who know what they are being taught and the qualifications of the coaches but they turn up, blast a few off, don't kill or main anyone and then come back for more. It therefore appears to work.

 

I think the thing that says it all is that in CPSA terminology if a shoot does not hold CPSA registered events then it is derogatively termed a "straw baler".

 

I shoot at a couple of sites which are ongoing clubs / businesses that do not hold registered events. these shoots are not temporary sites - they have fixed facilities, clubhouses, stands etc on land that is not used for any other purpose, they are just only run 2-3 times a month. I would suggest that unless you are a world class shot the coaching available at these sites is as good as any available at a registered ground.

[David BASC]

May be useful for clay shooters to list, say, the top three things that would like to see the CPSA do. As Jerry says, the work the CPSA does will not only benefit CPSA members but clay shooters in general.

 

If the CPSA develop and market a membership package that is attractive to clay shooters, clay shooters will join I am sure – why wouldn’t they?

 

What level of involvement should the CPSA have for example at SB shoots? Maybe non I don't know.

 

At my SB shoot you have to be a member of something - BASC or CPSA, unless you are a guest, but we have an extra insurance policy to cover guests.

 

In my view ALL shooters should be a member of at least one of the organisations working to keep your sport safe- which ones of course are up to you.

 

David

[HDAV]

I have so far been reading this thread with interest and have to say i agree with most of the comments i have been to quite a few grounds and the CPSA has never been mentioned ever.....

 

Not sure why, perhaps the grounds have no reason to mention it even tho there is a £5 bounty on every new members head for those that sign them up....

 

I shoot mainly sporting rather than Trap as i enjoy it more but the CPSA doesn't seem to offer anything for a lot of clay shooters which seems a bad idea IMO.

[Dunkield]

I don't think it is meant to be derogatory, I thought the term 'straw baler' is used to describe anything other than a registered shoot?

 

I have shot both (I would only shoot a registered shoot as a last resort and as non-registered) and although there are some dire 'straw balers' there are also some quality grounds that want nothing to do with the CPSA.

 

So I would suggest their one of their priorities would be to gather up all those people who just want to shoot some clays, whether it be to practise in the closed game season or just for fun/social and incorporate them somehow. If they can't find a way of doing that, then there is an opening for another organisation to do just that.

[snozzer]

Perhaps, in light of all this, a new organisation should arise and put the nail in the CPSA's coffin lid.

[David BASC]

Oh no! Not ANOTHER shooting organisation - we have almost 50 already!

 

No lets let the new CEO of the CPSA be selected and put their marker down, maybe their strategy will be to concentrate on the affiliated grounds and on the comp shooter – that’s seems to me (form the outside) where their priority rests - if so fine, if not then I am sure we will hear all about it when he / she takes over the running.

 

I guess there will be a set of priorities they will need to concentrate on, and maybe developing and marketing into SB shoots is down the list-?

 

David

[Dekers]

Oh no! Not ANOTHER shooting organisation - we have almost 50 already!

 

No lets let the new CEO of the CPSA be selected and put their marker down, maybe their strategy will be to concentrate on the affiliated grounds and on the comp shooter – that’s seems to me (form the outside) where their priority rests - if so fine, if not then I am sure we will hear all about it when he / she takes over the running.

 

I guess there will be a set of priorities they will need to concentrate on, and maybe developing and marketing into SB shoots is down the list-?

 

David

 

 

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting another, I think the idea is instead of!

 

The CPSA needs reinventing, whether this be by a radical and mindset change (Name potentially too) and relaunch, or by complete dismantling and start again!

 

It's not impossible, look at Tesco (you need to be a bit older to understand)

[Dunkield]

It's not impossible, look at Tesco (you need to be a bit older to understand)

I know what you mean, but I was in this one only last weekend, which was a bit confusing...

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/196...wood0100064.jpg