.20 Cal...... Are they any good ???

[robbobsam]

Hiya Guys,

 

I am thinking of getting a Tac20 for long range vermin shooting on the farms round me. The .243 is getting too heavy and its expensive to reload compared to the Tac20 as well.

 

Do any of you guys have one or have any info on them.

 

I used to have a .17 HMR for long range vermin but after using it for 3 months I got rid of it. It would deviate up to 6 inches over 100yds in light wind

 

I have been looking at the stats online and 4000fps for a 40grain bullet looks impressive. It has similar wind deviation and drop to a 22-250 as well.

 

.20 Cal Info.

 

So what do you guys think of em

 

Your honest opinions would be really appreciated before I put in for a variation.

Edit/Delete Message

[Mr_Logic]

hang on a tick. the 40 grain stuff in 20 cal is better BC than everything 22 cal up to IIRC 60 grain. And you get a decent MV too, so the 20 cal is very good for long range stuff.

[andythechicken]

Hi

 

I've done a lot of research into .20cal and am having made a custom 20BR.

 

Should be accurate as a vermin rifle up 300yards easy.

 

Andy

[Mr_Logic]

I doubt long range vermin bashing will be the long range that I would consider for target shooting, I.e 1K. Up to 400 yards a 20 is going to be pretty good, but needs to be faster than 1:12 twist to reliably stabilise the 40gr bullet.

 

My old Howa in 204 didn't, and the 32 expands too fast for foxes IMHO, I saw one fail to come out of a rabbit.

[kent]

Hiya Guys,

 

I am thinking of getting a Tac20 for long range vermin shooting on the farms round me. The .243 is getting too heavy and its expensive to reload compared to the Tac20 as well.

 

Do any of you guys have one or have any info on them.

 

I used to have a .17 HMR for long range vermin but after using it for 3 months I got rid of it. It would deviate up to 6 inches over 100yds in light wind

 

I have been looking at the stats online and 4000fps for a 40grain bullet looks impressive. It has similar wind deviation and drop to a 22-250 as well.

 

.20 Cal Info.

 

So what do you guys think of em

 

Your honest opinions would be really appreciated before I put in for a variation.

Edit/Delete Message

 

I somewhat doubt your HMR figures 6" in a "light wind" 100yds full value wind at 100yds is around 4" so you would need 15mph full value to get 6" when did 15mph become a light wind? How can you compare .20, .243" and 22-250 as long range vermin guns with the little HMR? Long range in these terms are 400yds and over way beyond the rimfires capability.

What are you actually shooting at and how far? What are you putting a variation in for a .20 instead of .243" or .20 over HMR? I am a little confused as to what your saying/ asking but think you might be getting all wrapped up in theory here, fact is in real practical terms of hitting a 2" circle at 200yds or over 1st shot the biggest factor is the person squeezing the trigger. A guy who can read the wind will always outshoot one who can't 100% of the time regardless of if he uses .243" .20 or 22-250 until the calibre he chooses becomes ineffective which i suspect is way beyond what you personally clasify as long range

Edited October 3, 2010 by kent

[scotland rifles]

been running one for a while now (may be selling it on so that i can get another custom one built ) http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5964/scope004.jpg

 

anyway, don't read to much into the wind CRUD. read the following from the man that created it. TODD KINDLER.

 

The Tactical 20 was designed by Todd Kindler - Editor of Small Caliber News www.smallcaliber.com and owner of The Woodchuck Den, Inc. www.woodchuckden.com for precision long range varmint shooting. The goal was to design a twenty caliber cartridge with super long-range performance, but on a modest case design to minimize recoil and noise. Todd also selected the time proven and readily available top quality 223 case to base his Tactical 20 on (most shooters call it the 20 TAC or TAC 20 today). Todd designed the 20 TAC with the accuracy proven 30 degree shoulder and the proper neck length to accommodate a wide range of bullets that he knew would be available down the road.

 

It didn't take the 20 TAC very long to prove itself in the varmint shooting sports. It soon was destroying alfalfa eating woodchucks at 400 to 600 yards and stopping coyotes in their tracks with minimal pelt damage - something the most serious coyote hunter likes to see. Serious varmint shooters around the world started building 20 TAC's for their varmint hunting needs. It wasn't long until the word spread on the outstanding design and long range potential of this cartridge. Some of the shooters like Greg Tannel owner of Gre-Tan Rifles who just happens to have a solid reputation for building the most accurate competition and varmint rifles in the world built himself a 20 TAC and called it a "Death Ray On Varmints"!

 

The 20 TAC is one of the many early twenty caliber cartridges that Todd has designed and it soon "blew the 20 caliber door wide open"! With 30 to 40 grain bullets, it is one of the most accurate and efficient 20 calibers available today. With the high B.C. 40 grain bullets, it has less bullet drop and wind drift than the 220 Swift! And does it with less than 25 grains of powder compared to the 220 Swift using 39 grains of powder!

 

Recently Dakota Arms was so impressed with the 20 TAC that they decided to license it from Todd and soon there will be precision Lapua brass and loaded ammo for it. Todd has just completed testing the first production run of the Lapua/Dakota 20 TAC brass and he was very impressed with the excellent quality and precision of the new Lapua/Dakota 20 TAC cases.

 

Are you ready for a serious "Death Ray" varmint cartridge? Then buy or build a 20 TAC today! The Woodchuck Den has all the precision reloading dies and equipment to help you on your 20 TAC, so give Todd a call at 330.897.0614 today!

 

if the above does not make you think about one then i wasted some time on it.

 

bob.

Edited October 3, 2010 by scotland rifles

[cleaner4hire]

I sold my HMR after putting some time in with my 20TAC. Its a good cartridge. Ideal IMO for anything vermin wise under 300 yrds if your up to it. The yanks use them out to silly ranges but we aint in the good ole USA. Speak to Neil McKillop if your having one built, the chaps very, very good at building 20's.

 

I only realised a few weeks ago that the 39gr Blitzking has a slightly higher BC than the 40 gr Vmax so im working a load up for that now

[scotland rifles]

I sold my HMR after putting some time in with my 20TAC. Its a good cartridge. Ideal IMO for anything vermin wise under 300 yrds if your up to it. The yanks use them out to silly ranges but we aint in the good ole USA. Speak to Neil McKillop if your having one built, the chaps very, very good at building 20's.

 

I only realised a few weeks ago that the 39gr Blitzking has a slightly higher BC than the 40 gr Vmax so im working a load up for that now

 

 

i have just sold some 32gr's as my mckillop rifles .20tac did not like them, mind you is only has a 20' barrel and is lighter then my sako quad when the rifles are naked,

 

bob.

 

PS: Neil is a good mate of mine and will be having my next order for my new .20tac as soon as i have the funds

[Alycidon]

I have had a 20BR for about a year, kills cleanly, shoots 50gr Bergers very flat, its my fox rifle of choice.

 

tac 20 has a slightly lower powder capacity, therefore the best bullets for it are in the 32-40gr range, it will kill easily as far as you can shoot it straight. Certainly up to 300 yards which is far enough for most.

 

Wind drift is lower with 20s than 22s owing to their reduced profile, this is not really noticeable in use below 300 yards though. You will need to be able to reload but once mastered then TAC20 and Prac 20 are far easier to shoot at distance than its 223 parent due to reduced drops and drifts. Prac 20 is a no neck turn version of TAC 20.

 

A

[al4x]

It does make me realise how good the HMR is that people seem to always compare it to centrefires. Interesting idea swapping one for a 20Tac just a query but could you shoot 50-100 rabbits in a night with one

 

If you're just play shooting at long ranges then the 20Tac will do the job but a bunny gun it isn't IMHO

[cleaner4hire]

It does make me realise how good the HMR is that people seem to always compare it to centrefires. Interesting idea swapping one for a 20Tac just a query but could you shoot 50-100 rabbits in a night with one

 

If you're just play shooting at long ranges then the 20Tac will do the job but a bunny gun it isn't IMHO

 

I cant see why you couldnt shoot that many rabbits with one. Its not much noisier and nearly as cheap to run when reloading. I dont run mine hot and it doesnt do excessive damage - you have to headshot with the HMR so no difference there either really.

 

I got rid of my HMR in favour of the 20 because of where I currently shoot. Massive open expanses of land with not a great deal of cover so needed the extra reach, especially for pesky corvids. People probably compare them because the HMR is very centrefire-like in its flat trajectory, upto 100 yrds or so.

 

Its not a perfect bunny gun - I dont think any rifle is otherwise we'd all only have 1 gun!!! but the 20 is everything I need in one rifle at the moment

 

Im moving down your way next year anyway so maybe you could come over and see

[wildfowler.250]

I cant see why you couldnt shoot that many rabbits with one. Its not much noisier and nearly as cheap to run when reloading. I dont run mine hot and it doesnt do excessive damage - you have to headshot with the HMR so no difference there either really.

 

I got rid of my HMR in favour of the 20 because of where I currently shoot. Massive open expanses of land with not a great deal of cover so needed the extra reach, especially for pesky corvids. People probably compare them because the HMR is very centrefire-like in its flat trajectory, upto 100 yrds or so.

 

Its not a perfect bunny gun - I dont think any rifle is otherwise we'd all only have 1 gun!!! but the 20 is everything I need in one rifle at the moment

 

Im moving down your way next year anyway so maybe you could come over and see

 

I was thinking about getting a tac20,(primarily because I get an itch and want something ). However you would be spending a lot of time reloading if your going to regularly shoot a lot of rabbits,(instead of just buying .17 ammo at a £10 a box and going out). Does it really offer that much more than the .222/.223? I would have thought that most of the time the .22 cf would be a better option though as it saves you going down the custom route and surely its not that hard just to learn a wee bit more holdover compaired to the tac20?

 

 

ATB

[kent]

I cant see why you couldnt shoot that many rabbits with one. Its not much noisier and nearly as cheap to run when reloading. I dont run mine hot and it doesnt do excessive damage - you have to headshot with the HMR so no difference there either really.

 

I got rid of my HMR in favour of the 20 because of where I currently shoot. Massive open expanses of land with not a great deal of cover so needed the extra reach, especially for pesky corvids. People probably compare them because the HMR is very centrefire-like in its flat trajectory, upto 100 yrds or so.

 

Its not a perfect bunny gun - I dont think any rifle is otherwise we'd all only have 1 gun!!! but the 20 is everything I need in one rifle at the moment

 

Im moving down your way next year anyway so maybe you could come over and see

 

 

No you don't have to headshoot with the HMR at all, a good chest shot side on around 100yds and meat loss is negligable confined to the ribs which aint worth cooking anyhow, often you loose a front leg but heck i store those separate anyway as they arn't worth boneing out. The centrefires are way better crow killers than the HMR but then again i have never seen a bunny shot with .222 rem upwards that was worth picking up for food.

 

Exactly which centrefire drifts 4" in a 10mph full value wind and needs acuraccy in range calls past 130 yds? No the .20 and other centrefires are a total different league in terms of range, windage and killing efficiency (just don't expect the game dealer to welcome you and your dead bunnies with open arms)

[Alycidon]

I was thinking about getting a tac20,(primarily because I get an itch and want something ). However you would be spending a lot of time reloading if your going to regularly shoot a lot of rabbits,(instead of just buying .17 ammo at a £10 a box and going out). Does it really offer that much more than the .222/.223? I would have thought that most of the time the .22 cf would be a better option though as it saves you going down the custom route and surely its not that hard just to learn a wee bit more holdover compaired to the tac20?

 

 

ATB

 

 

Under 300 yards you wont see much difference between Tac 20 and 223 in use, an odd inch or two thats all. But over than the fatter 22 bullet starts to drop pretty fast. Buy what you are happist with, I have had 22.250 and wont be going that way again despite the round being a good killer.

 

A

[Frenchieboy]

I'm not sure about a .20 cal for you as you seem to be doing fine with the .243, especially as you are taking hares at 704 yards as you stated in one of your prevoius posts. (Which you failed to return to to answer many questions and points that were put forwards.)

Maybe you ought to have another look at the post you made at and answer some of the comments put forward at:

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...p;#entry1214744

[njc110381]

It does make me realise how good the HMR is that people seem to always compare it to centrefires. Interesting idea swapping one for a 20Tac just a query but could you shoot 50-100 rabbits in a night with one

 

If you're just play shooting at long ranges then the 20Tac will do the job but a bunny gun it isn't IMHO

 

 

I think what you need to keep in mind is that some see reloading as almost a seperate hobby to shooting. To have the need to load 100 rounds a couple of times a week is a good thing for some and that's where these little reloadable calibres come in for us. I like to reload myself. Maybe not to that sort of scale but if I need to load 100 rounds every couple of weeks I'm happy with that. When muddled in with my .22lr that's about the level I shoot my Hornets at (not the Ackley mind, I found that too complicated and fiddly for my liking!).

 

You can't deny the HMR performs almost as a small centrefire. Ammo isn't that bad a deal for what it can offer. For us shooters that actually enjoy spending a little time reloading there are better options like the little Hornets and .20s. You can never deny they are better either, but if you see making ammo as a chore then they really aren't for you. Factory ammo is either very expensive or perhaps doesn't even exist!

[jamie g]

I think what you need to keep in mind is that some see reloading as almost a seperate hobby to shooting. To have the need to load 100 rounds a couple of times a week is a good thing for some and that's where these little reloadable calibres come in for us. I like to reload myself. Maybe not to that sort of scale but if I need to load 100 rounds every couple of weeks I'm happy with that. When muddled in with my .22lr that's about the level I shoot my Hornets at (not the Ackley mind, I found that too complicated and fiddly for my liking!).

 

You can't deny the HMR performs almost as a small centrefire. Ammo isn't that bad a deal for what it can offer. For us shooters that actually enjoy spending a little time reloading there are better options like the little Hornets and .20s. You can never deny they are better either, but if you see making ammo as a chore then they really aren't for you. Factory ammo is either very expensive or perhaps doesn't even exist!

 

what small centrefire does the hmr almost perform like then all the small centrefire's i know of are way ahead of the hmr.

 

the hmr is a good little caliber though. imo it's silly ammo price let it down. that and the number of people that have had problems with the ammo.

 

which is weird the prices are going up yet the quality of it seams to be getting worse dud rounds misfires etc..

Edited October 24, 2010 by jamie g

[NorfolkPoacher]

I'm not sure about a .20 cal for you as you seem to be doing fine with the .243, especially as you are taking hares at 704 yards as you stated in one of your prevoius posts. (Which you failed to return to to answer many questions and points that were put forwards.)

Maybe you ought to have another look at the post you made at and answer some of the comments put forward at:

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...p;#entry1214744

 

haha well observed that man!!! cant beat a bit of bull ****

[Mr_Logic]

what small centrefire does the hmr almost perform like then all the small centrefire's i know of are way ahead of the hmr.

 

the hmr is a good little caliber though. imo it's silly ammo price let it down. that and the number of people that have had problems with the ammo.

 

which is weird the prices are going up yet the quality of it seams to be getting worse dud rounds misfires etc..

22 Hornet. Ballistically very similar.

[al4x]

the really comical bit is the HMR gets compared to a centrefire and the cost of ammo gets compared to a .22lr no centrefire I know of costs £10 for 50 rounds Privi may not be that far off but really the cost is very similar to firing a shotgun and how many whine about that all the time

[the running man]

the really comical bit is the HMR gets compared to a centrefire and the cost of ammo gets compared to a .22lr no centrefire I know of costs £10 for 50 rounds Privi may not be that far off but really the cost is very similar to firing a.shotgun and how many whine about that all the time

I do! I find clay shooting overly expensive,boring,easy (most the time!) And when u visit grounds outside you're area its as clicky as hell,so I jacked it in,I get my trap out when a few of us think we need a little practice at a certain distance or bird flight,u know the score,u get a little rusty at teals or quartering so u set up the trap to mimick. As for this rifle business,my my don't we all put forward a great case for what we own!

[njc110381]

what small centrefire does the hmr almost perform like then all the small centrefire's i know of are way ahead of the hmr.

 

the hmr is a good little caliber though. imo it's silly ammo price let it down.

 

As Mr Logic said, the .22 Hornet. The HMR doesn't have the power of the Hornet (HMR 250ft-lbs compared to the 600+ft-lbs of the Hornet) but it does share the same trajectory pretty much. To get that velocity and trajectory from a rimfire is a good effort from its designers. It saves people that don't want to reload (Al4x is a perfect example) from having to spend a fortune on something bigger just to bust long range bunnies.

 

the really comical bit is the HMR gets compared to a centrefire and the cost of ammo gets compared to a .22lr no centrefire I know of costs £10 for 50 rounds Privi may not be that far off but really the cost is very similar to firing a shotgun and how many whine about that all the time

 

Even Prvi is £8 or more for 20 rounds. That's over double the cost of HMR. To compare HMR to .22lr isn't fair really. There is much more powder and brass involved per load and the bullets are jacketed rather than just easy to produce lumps of lead (and basic ones at that!). Add the fact that the case needs to be necked down after being primed and you've got both a higher material outlay and more work to produce a round.

 

I'm not a fan of the HMR because I'm willing to reload for my Hornet and that is clearly better value for money for my situation. That doesn't make the HMR a bad round though, in fact I feel it's quite the opposite. There's nothing else quite like it for the price if you just want to be able to walk into any gun shop in the country and buy ammo off the shelf. It's a very capable little tool for small vermin.

[al4x]

its not that I don't want to reload, purely a rabbit and small pest gun I can't be bothered. .223 is totally different there are benefits to reloading but I can't see it for bunny busting. On the same logic I don't reload shotgun shells

[njc110381]

I did very well with my HMR on bunnies for a couple of years. Where I started to see problems is when a lot of Foxes started turning up. For some reason there are loads of them around here, I don't think anyone else shoots them near my land! I needed a little more energy so my bunny gun had to grow. It's very rare I go out to shoot a Fox and I prefer to just hit what turns up on the night most of the time.

 

I can see why you wouldn't want to home load a bunny gun. You put a lot of rounds down it and you don't really need the power of centrefire.

[al4x]

I guess the difference is I lamp in a truck, just take the HMR and the .223 and all bases are covered. If I go foxing I'll rarely take the HMR unless the local conditions require it but out bunny bashing i'll take both