Mr_Logic Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Same, i dont shoot hares generally but the guy MAY have a valid reason for getting rid of them by any means. Some have also asked if he has hares mentioned on his FAC but does anyone have hares or game specifically mentioned under a .22 or .17? I dont.. Interesting debate, people are always very quick to criticise! Not 'vermin and ground game'? If you have vermin and any other legal quarry, then it counts! (or anything with 'any other legal quarry') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Well.... based on the OP i`m going to set a remote camera in one of my closest fields which is about a 1/2 mile away as the crow flighs and lob .308 rounds mortar stylee into the field, taking into account gravity, wind shear and the rotational spin of the earth i`m sure i can get a clean humane kill on a rabbit, and a heart and lung hit to boot, if i do miss then i can just jump in the car and humanely dispatch it. All joking aside.... why would you do it?? there is so much room for error and things going pear shaped it`s unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Can someone with 700 yards worth of land let me know? I'll bring a couple of rifles and we can do some tests on steel rabbit targets and settle this one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprags Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Same, i dont shoot hares generally but the guy MAY have a valid reason for getting rid of them by any means. Some have also asked if he has hares mentioned on his FAC but does anyone have hares or game specifically mentioned under a .22 or .17? I dont.. Interesting debate, people are always very quick to criticise! If the guy has taken one for the pot, I have no beef with that. I do however hate the fact that folks shoot em' for nothing but fun. As for the 'long range' debate, like I say the people who are against are ignorant to it and have not one clue to it's effectiveness out in the field. Wait for it,. . . . ."where's the fieldcraft in long range shooting?" Well I still have the skill of fieldcraft and use it, but when the opportunity comes that will not allow you to get near to your chosen quarry and the only option is a 'long range' shot I want be confident that I can make that shot. That's why I practice so much at different ranges, shooting rocks, dirt, gongs, all sorts of inanimate objects until I have the confidence of reading the conditions to make an accurate long range shot. It is an interesting debate and like you say, people are always very quick to criticise, especially when it's about something they know very little about! Edited October 23, 2010 by Sprags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Right then... I was not aware of the OP's somewhat dodgy credentials. However, let's look at ballistics. Nobody has ever said which v-max we're talking about, so let's assume that it's the 87 grain. (since the predicted drop is 15.4 MOA, that tallies) I did actually reference energies in an earlier post. Although I did it for a 55grain. I've said it once and I'll say it again; at 700 yards a .243 bullet (all weights) will hit a target with more energy than shooting the same target from 1 yard away with a .17HMR. If anyone's shot an HMR they'll understand that it'd not be a pretty sight if you did actually do that. Edited October 23, 2010 by Billy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 I did actually reference energies in an earlier post. Although I did it for a 55grain. I've said it once and I'll say it again; at 700 yards a .243 bullet (all weights) will hit a target with more energy than shooting the same target from 1 yard away with a .17HMR. If anyone's shot an HMR they'll understand that it'd not be a pretty sight if you did actually do that. You did reference energy, but not velocity. The 55 grain nosler is too slow by 700 yards, although it's dropped less (assuming MV 3900 fps). Velocity is more important as if you don't get the right terminal ballistics then you impart very little of that energy on the target (see under the effect of HMR beyond about 120 yards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Well reading his posts on the BBS Site about working a load up for the 75 Vmax I'm surprised he even hit the hare, he couldn't get a grouping at 300 yds, never mind talking 700+. BJ Edited October 24, 2010 by Bazooka Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprags Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Well reading his posts on the BBS Site about working a load up for the 75 Vmax I'm surprised he even hit the hare, he couldn't get a grouping at 300 yds, never mine talking 700+. BJ I can't get on BBS, it seems to be down, can you post a link for when I can get on please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 I can't get on BBS, it seems to be down, can you post a link for when I can get on please? Can't get on just now either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 You did reference energy, but not velocity. The 55 grain nosler is too slow by 700 yards, although it's dropped less (assuming MV 3900 fps). Velocity is more important as if you don't get the right terminal ballistics then you impart very little of that energy on the target (see under the effect of HMR beyond about 120 yards) Gotcha. I'm on a roll with schoolboy errors this evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Can't get on just now either. OOOPS forgot it was down for a little scheduled tidying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Just found an interesting post started on the 30th October which could well tie in with this one at: http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...p;#entry1195397 Where the OP says that he is thinking about a .20 as the 243 is too exoensive to reload for "long range vermin" - I have to wounder if the members who have replied are aware of this thread - Well, if they read that thread all the way through they are now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Bit bored of this now, the sun is shining and I'm out to scare some pigeons off some freshly drilled ground. Normal procedure, set decoys out at 400yds, using my no6 reloads packed with plenty of red dot, just give em about 30yds lead and a little hold over. If the birds are within 300yds and settling on the drill we will save a few quid and just use the air rifle. Thats the wonder of the internet, you can do some amazing feates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) As has been said before in this thread, a 700 yard shot at a hare sized target (NOT A HARE !!!) is very achievable, given the correct kit and experience. I personally am interested in long range shooting, and with semi custom .243AI and semi custom 6.5x55AI , with correct handloaded ammunition, and with 30 years experience of rifle shooting I would have the confidence to attempt a shot at that range on a 'hare sized target'. But not to someone that has been shooting C/F rifles for less than 5 months, and using a factory rifle? Very very very lucky, or full of ******** This OP, on another forum, told how he was going to sit out for Muntjac....at 200 to 300 yards! TROLL ALERT !! Edited October 24, 2010 by Browning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytim38 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 sounds like complete lies, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingman Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 sounds like complete lies, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbobsam Posted October 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Just got back to this thread after a few days away from it. Watch it run and run. If you don't believe me, I dont care. Did I do it Yes I did. Did the hare die instantly......well V-Max to chest...you do the maths. Will I ever post a long range shot on a UK hunting forum.....Never. If you are over 100yds away and you aint in the forum hunting click you are a moron. If you are in the click you are a real top class marksman. I aint some thick stupid chav, I have endeavoured to learn how to shoot over extended ranges and I have managed to pull off a 700yd shot on a hare with homeloaded ammo after only a couple of months making it. I used a Nikon Rangefinder and a .243Win with a 5.5-22 x 56 nightforce scope, exbal doctored drop chart and a wind meter. To be totally honest when moved and I had the wind in my face the shot was easy. Its always a lot harder judging for windage. I will not usually go out if the wind is over 6mph and if the wind is upto 6mph I will not take shots over 300yds. Don't like the shot, so be it. You wont read about another one from me. Will I continue to take SAFE long range shots when they offer themselves. Yes for certain !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob tail Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 One thing is for sure if it was done for a reaction he's certainly got one. CHEERS CHRIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytim38 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 been watching the film shooter? ........what about ''the spin of the earth and humidity, a whole lot of factors come into play at that range'' LOL........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I don't like boasting and I don't like the shooting of hares for no good reason. This guy is certainly guilty on the first count (if you are that good, keep it to yourself) and seems to be guilty on the second - no good reason given and the hare seems to have been used for target practice by someone with too much money to spend on ammunition, given the cost of centrefire rounds. This is the first really critical post that I have ever submitted but I'm afraid that someone like this does the shooting fraternity no favours and is hardly a credit to humanity in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbobsam Posted October 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I don't like boasting and I don't like the shooting of hares for no good reason. This guy is certainly guilty on the first count (if you are that good, keep it to yourself) and seems to be guilty on the second - no good reason given and the hare seems to have been used for target practice by someone with too much money to spend on ammunition, given the cost of centrefire rounds. This is the first really critical post that I have ever submitted but I'm afraid that someone like this does the shooting fraternity no favours and is hardly a credit to humanity in general. There may be a shortage of hares near to you, but certainly not near me. It was a fair and safe target and it was shot cleanly and humanely. It was gutted, skinned and taken home and is currently in the second drawer of my freezer. I am sure it will taste great with vegtables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I don't like boasting and I don't like the shooting of hares for no good reason. This guy is certainly guilty on the first count (if you are that good, keep it to yourself) and seems to be guilty on the second - no good reason given and the hare seems to have been used for target practice by someone with too much money to spend on ammunition, given the cost of centrefire rounds. This is the first really critical post that I have ever submitted but I'm afraid that someone like this does the shooting fraternity no favours and is hardly a credit to humanity in general. I agree. I did read in the first thread that the gentleman said that the Hare was hanging up ready for skinning!I'm pretty sure if he hit the Hare square in the chest with a .243 V-Max bullet he wouldn't have much left to skin.A load of Rubbish I think this whole episode is!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Just got back to this thread after a few days away from it. Watch it run and run. If you don't believe me, I dont care. Did I do it Yes I did. Did the hare die instantly......well V-Max to chest...you do the maths. Will I ever post a long range shot on a UK hunting forum.....Never. If you are over 100yds away and you aint in the forum hunting click you are a moron. If you are in the click you are a real top class marksman. I aint some thick stupid chav, I have endeavoured to learn how to shoot over extended ranges and I have managed to pull off a 700yd shot on a hare with homeloaded ammo after only a couple of months making it. I used a Nikon Rangefinder and a .243Win with a 5.5-22 x 56 nightforce scope, exbal doctored drop chart and a wind meter. To be totally honest when moved and I had the wind in my face the shot was easy. Its always a lot harder judging for windage. I will not usually go out if the wind is over 6mph and if the wind is upto 6mph I will not take shots over 300yds. Don't like the shot, so be it. You wont read about another one from me. Will I continue to take SAFE long range shots when they offer themselves. Yes for certain !!! I'm behind you mate,safe shot,ure eatin it,that's great. 700 yards is not a hard shot I got 8 vbulls out of 10 shots at 600 2 weeks ago with my 30-06.(Granted up high on a target board,wouldent spot a hare in the grass that far!) As for ure brush here with the clicky essex mafia then don't worry,they all have massive loads of books at home they read just by lookin at the covers. They never think to ask of ure shooting experience pre fac, we've got a guy at our club shot amazin at stickledown at club events for about 3 years b4 gettin his own gun,I imagine u to be the same,gathering experience and knowledge b4 gettin an fac. Post as much as u want in future,don't give in to people who can't do what u have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez325 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I don't like boasting and I don't like the shooting of hares for no good reason. This guy is certainly guilty on the first count (if you are that good, keep it to yourself) and seems to be guilty on the second - no good reason given and the hare seems to have been used for target practice by someone with too much money to spend on ammunition, given the cost of centrefire rounds. This is the first really critical post that I have ever submitted but I'm afraid that someone like this does the shooting fraternity no favours and is hardly a credit to humanity in general. I coudnt have put that any better- and I agree 100% Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I'm behind you mate,safe shot,ure eatin it,that's great. 700 yards is not a hard shot I got 8 vbulls out of 10 shots at 600 2 weeks ago with my 30-06.(Granted up high on a target board,wouldent spot a hare in the grass that far!) As for ure brush here with the clicky essex mafia then don't worry,they all have massive loads of books at home they read just by lookin at the covers. They never think to ask of ure shooting experience pre fac, we've got a guy at our club shot amazin at stickledown at club events for about 3 years b4 gettin his own gun,I imagine u to be the same,gathering experience and knowledge b4 gettin an fac. Post as much as u want in future,don't give in to people who can't do what u have. You are talking about V-bulls, target boards and shooting clubs. You are talking about target shooting. Indeed, I would assume that you probably do quite a bit of it and are good at it. Fair do's. What I can't understand is how people are missing the point. No one is disputing that the shot couldn't be made, of course it could. However, we are talking about shooting at living creatures that deserve respect and as guaranteed clean kill as an ethical hunter can provide. 700 yards does not meet that criteria. From the original post, I ask the simple question of "why just not get nearer?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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