Effective Range

[wymberley]

Help, please ,guys.

We have a ballistic tip type bullet with a BC of 0.221 and an MV of 3010ft/sec, what, assuming an engine room shot, would be a realistic range for fox?

Cheers

Edit: Oops, sorry, perhaps should have added (although it may be irrelevant) that the bullet expansion performance is deemed satisfactory at 1600ft/sec.

Edited November 6, 2010 by wymberley

[Shootingman]

Bullet weight

[seeker]

BC .22 + MV 3000 will be doing about 1820 at 300 yd.

Its energy will be be 7.4 ft-lbs per grain of bullet weight ..

Drop -9.3" on 200yd zero

From Speers tables.

Edited November 6, 2010 by seeker

[wymberley]

Bullet weight

What a wally!! Never proof read your own!. 40gr.

Sorry, all.

Cheers,

Phil

[Dekers]

Out of curiosity.......Is that a Hornet, it seems quite quick for one but at the same time quite slow for the other .22centrefires?

[njc110381]

So 250ish ft-lbs at 300 yards. That will kill a Fox. I'm guessing Hornet too by those figures, which if this is the case it's not the energy you need to consider but the ability to make an accurate shot at that range. The wind will be taking over in a big way by this point and I wouldn't take that shot. That's not to say it isn't possible, rather just too risky for me.

[wymberley]

Hi,

Thanks all. Your comments confirm my thoughts and are welcome before I take the plunge and spend next week's pension (well several weeks actually). I note well the remark about windage and the 300 figure is beyond my requirements.

Yes, Hornet. Have a look at the Nosler (40gr BT) Ballistics Manual which I think reflects a possible figure of 2979. However, I have not used that source which is why my figure is a little different. At the moment I'm grounded as the existing importers of my rifle of choice are no longer and the replacement company does not take over until the new year and there's none currently in the UK.

Cheers and thanks again.

Phil

[njc110381]

Best just buy a CZ then!

[Mr_Logic]

Hornet with a 40 grain at those velocities is unlikely unless you get lucky. Mine shoots the 35 at 3075 and works well but the BC is ****.

 

300 yards is too far with Hornet, I'd want something bigger at that range, 222 or 223 and above.

[jamie g]

Hornet with a 40 grain at those velocities is unlikely unless you get lucky. Mine shoots the 35 at 3075 and works well but the BC is ****.

 

300 yards is too far with Hornet, I'd want something bigger at that range, 222 or 223 and above.

 

i agree with mr l if you want 300 yards you need to go bigger. and even then 300 yards is a long way so best get some pratice in.

[wymberley]

i agree with mr l if you want 300 yards you need to go bigger. and even then 300 yards is a long way so best get some pratice in.

Yep, practice is always good even when carrying on as normal, just expending less energy achieving the same objective. .... "and the 300 figure is beyond my requirements"

[robbobsam]

Help, please ,guys.

We have a ballistic tip type bullet with a BC of 0.221 and an MV of 3010ft/sec, what, assuming an engine room shot, would be a realistic range for fox?

Cheers

Edit: Oops, sorry, perhaps should have added (although it may be irrelevant) that the bullet expansion performance is deemed satisfactory at 1600ft/sec.

 

Before you go out shooting at extended ranges (over 100yds) get yourself an accurate drop chart sorted.

 

You can get one by inputting your info into a program like this one online >>>>Ballistics Calculator

 

When you have a drop chart print it out and keep it with you when shooting.

 

It will look like this one below.

 

Drop Chart

 

Never rely on the velocities on factory ammo boxes as they are never accurate and can be up to 10% out + or -. Go to a good rifle club and get your ammo over a chrono to get an accurate velocity.

 

If you need any help getting your ammo chrono'd or a drop chart producing get in touch and if you are close to me I can help you.

 

A 40 grain bullet will have a much faster velocity and much less drop than a 70 grain in the same velocity. Over 300yds this could be as much as 6 inches. Therefore is it really safe to shoot at a fox if you do not know the drop of your rifle

 

If you want help please get in touch.

[robbobsam]

You will also need a rangefinder, I have been out shooting with some guys that think they arfe taking shots at rabbits at 200yds when they are actually shooting at them at 300yds which is going to miss or maim.

 

I love to go out shooting at extended ranges and if you have the correct gear

 

Good binos

Rangefinder

Accurate drop charts

Good handloaded consistent ammo

Wind Meter

 

It can be incredibly rewarding finding a target at extended ranges, ranging it up and calculating the correct windage and elevation and hitting your target, But before you can do this you have to have the gear and know how to do it correctly.

 

Please get the gear and your drop charts before you try to shoot at extended ranges.

 

Check these guys out..... They are truly awesome !!!

 

Experts at long range shooting !!!

[wymberley]

Hi,

Thanks for your help. Been shooting fullbore downwards for about 50 years now but only re-loading for about 20. Have not shot hornet though, hence my question. I have a range finder and use the Sierra Infinity Suite Ballistic Programme with the windage and bullet drop figures taped to the butt as an aide memoire. As an old timer, I'm afraid to me shooting at extended ranges where there's always room for error is an admission of failure on my part. The Prochrono also comes in handy for batch velocity checking.

Cheers

[Mr_Logic]

Robbob, it does read like your posts are copy/paste from elsewhere on the web. You can do without a drop chart and a windmeter to start with, and most of it's common sense.... Sorry but your post reads very preachy for someone who has, by his own admission, only been shooting 5 minutes.

[casts_by_fly]

 

 

A 40 grain bullet will have a much faster velocity and much less drop than a 70 grain in the same velocity. Over 300yds this could be as much as 6 inches. Therefore is it really safe to shoot at a fox if you do not know the drop of your rifle

 

If you want help please get in touch.

 

 

Hi Sam,

 

I think it migh a typo on your part, but what you wrote above is wrong. If they have the same velocity, they have the same velocity. If they have the same velocity, a 70 gr will have less drop than a 40 gr. A 70 gr in the same cartridge will have a higher BC than a 40 gr. Drop is based on velocity and BC. If they both have the same velocity, the better BC has less drop.

 

Of course the challenge is that a 40 gr and a 70 gr are not going to have the same velocity from the same cartridge. For a 223 for instance, you're talking about ~900 fps difference from 40 to 70 grains.

 

Where you need a calculator is to weight velocity vs BC at the ranges you're shooting. A 40 gr v-max starts shedding velocity pretty quickly when it hits 250 or so. I wouldn't choose a 40 gr bullet for shooting 300 yards regularly- I'd bump up to 55 or so and deal with the lower velocity. The longer the range, the more the BC becomes important and the more velocity you can give up. The advantage of giving up velocity for BC is that you'll also cut down your wind drift.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Blunderbuss]

 

Check these guys out..... They are truly awesome !!!

 

Experts at long range shooting !!!

 

No they are cocks Shooting a bear at over a thousand yards? As a comment on there points out, MOA at that range is over 10 inches. The slightest twitch from the animal or gust of wind after trigger release = a gut shot and a slow agonising death I'm not disputing their skill, just their judgement and respect for a quarry animal.

 

If you genuinely think such sick antics are "truly awesome", I sincerely hope you confine your own shooting to the range or tin cans?

[Chard]

LOL

[robbobsam]

Hi Sam,

 

I think it migh a typo on your part, but what you wrote above is wrong. If they have the same velocity, they have the same velocity. If they have the same velocity, a 70 gr will have less drop than a 40 gr. A 70 gr in the same cartridge will have a higher BC than a 40 gr. Drop is based on velocity and BC. If they both have the same velocity, the better BC has less drop.

 

Of course the challenge is that a 40 gr and a 70 gr are not going to have the same velocity from the same cartridge. For a 223 for instance, you're talking about ~900 fps difference from 40 to 70 grains.

 

Where you need a calculator is to weight velocity vs BC at the ranges you're shooting. A 40 gr v-max starts shedding velocity pretty quickly when it hits 250 or so. I wouldn't choose a 40 gr bullet for shooting 300 yards regularly- I'd bump up to 55 or so and deal with the lower velocity. The longer the range, the more the BC becomes important and the more velocity you can give up. The advantage of giving up velocity for BC is that you'll also cut down your wind drift.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

 

Hiya Rick,

 

Obviously I didn't make myself very well understood.

 

If you look at the data below you will see the point I am making.

 

The heavier the bullet the more it will drop over distance.

 

It is important to know how much drop your bullet will drop and the effects of the wind at the ranges you shoot at or as you can see from the data you can soon be 4-6" out even before you take the shot.

 

To make matters worse, the data on the box of most factory ammo is out usually so it is more reason to keep your shooting distances low.

 

However if you take time to learn a little about ballistics then I see no reason not to shoot at extended distances if it is safe to do so.

 

Ballistics Data Factory .243 55 grain vs 95 grain

More Data

[robbobsam]

No they are cocks Shooting a bear at over a thousand yards? As a comment on there points out, MOA at that range is over 10 inches. The slightest twitch from the animal or gust of wind after trigger release = a gut shot and a slow agonising death I'm not disputing their skill, just their judgement and respect for a quarry animal.

 

If you genuinely think such sick antics are "truly awesome", I sincerely hope you confine your own shooting to the range or tin cans?

 

Just out of curiosity, is this guy a sick individual too

 

1.5mile long range shot. Truly Awesome !!!

[Mr_Logic]

Hiya Rick,

 

Obviously I didn't make myself very well understood.

 

If you look at the data below you will see the point I am making.

 

The heavier the bullet the more it will drop over distance.

 

It is important to know how much drop your bullet will drop and the effects of the wind at the ranges you shoot at or as you can see from the data you can soon be 4-6" out even before you take the shot.

 

To make matters worse, the data on the box of most factory ammo is out usually so it is more reason to keep your shooting distances low.

 

However if you take time to learn a little about ballistics then I see no reason not to shoot at extended distances if it is safe to do so.

 

Ballistics Data Factory .243 55 grain vs 95 grain

More Data

Your point is wrong, because a heavier bullet will drop less at longer distance, if muzzle velocity is equal, due to a better BC, assuming calibre is the same.

 

I really think you need to spend more time shooting and less time regurgitating other internet forums.

 

I do agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with long range shooting, but you need to know what you're about in order to do it.

[Sprags]

One minute you are a novice in need of advice and here you are now giving it out, well done!

 

But if you are such a long range shooting expert why are you asking the same questions all over the ******' internet and not listening to any of the ******' answers?

 

 

My God man, listen to yourself. . . . . . . . .

 

 

I'm beginning to think you are just out for a reaction.

 

 

"Please get the gear and your drop charts before you try to shoot at extended ranges"

 

What is "all the gear"?

 

You never once mention anything about validating any of the data in the field.

 

Are you saying that anyone can just use an online ballistics programme and then with the data that programme provides they can go out shooting at extended ranges?

There's a little more to it than that, you have had the invites for a day out from the guy's who can shoot long range yet you back out, why?

Edited November 11, 2010 by Sprags

[robbobsam]

One minute you are a novice in need of advice and here you are now giving it out, well done!

 

But if you are such a long range shooting expert why are you asking the same questions all over the ******' internet and not listening to any of the ******' answers?

 

 

My God man, listen to yourself. . . . . . . . .

 

 

I'm beginning to think you are just out for a response.

 

 

"Please get the gear and your drop charts before you try to shoot at extended ranges"

 

What is "all the gear"?

 

You never once mention anything about validating any of the data in the field.

 

Are you saying that anyone can just use an online ballistics programme and then with the data that programme provides they can go out shooting at extended ranges?

There's a little more to it than that, you have had the invites for a day out from the guy's who can shoot long range yet you back out, why?

 

Sprags,

 

Its quite simple why I didnt want to meet up with everyone on your forum, everytime I had any exchange with them they always wanted to come on one of my permissions and show me how to do things.

 

I have been shooting for about 20 years, the last 6 months has been FAC. I am lucky enough to shoot over 1500+ acres of land local to me, in addition to this my family own a further 2500 acres in the Staffordshire. I will not take complete strangers onto any of my permissions or family land under any circumstances, particularly people who come across as some of the chavs do on your forum.

 

As for "long range" shooting I will stick to the American forums for long range shooting advice as they appear to be a lot more knowledgeable.

[Blunderbuss]

 

Check these guys out..... They are truly awesome !!!

 

Experts at long range shooting !!!

Just out of curiosity, is this guy a sick individual too

 

1.5mile long range shot. Truly Awesome !!!

 

There is a world of difference between military action and fat yanks whoop-whooping whilst taking pot shots at a 1000 yard bear for kicks. Can't you see that? Do you really condone the latter? And BTW, calling every link you post Truly Awesome !!! makes you sound about 12.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Blunderbuss

[robbobsam]

There is a world of difference between military action and fat yanks whoop-whooping whilst taking pot shots at a 1000 yard bear for kicks. Can't you see that? Do you really condone the latter? And BTW, calling every link you post Truly Awesome !!! makes you sound about 12.

 

 

So, its alright for the righteous british para to shoot human beings at 1.5 miles away who are defending their homeload. But its wicked for American hunters to shoot a bear at long range which is legal and legitimate in America

 

hhmmmmmmmm !!!!!

 

Let me think about that one.