Vermincinerator Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 I dont own a shotgun because i choose not to, i am a rifle shooter and shoot all my vermin, fox, ground game, deer etc...... with a rifle. I enjoy shooting quarry with my rifle including the odd game bird. When i go out to take an animal with my rifle i dont want to give it a sporting chance i want to stack as much of the odds in my favour and kill it. I get fed up of reading this "sporting chance" business as much as i read about having "respect for my quarry" the only respect i give my quarry is to make sure i kill it cleanly, quickly and humanely. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Yes, that's exactly what I do in fact. I guess some people are just different. Why shoot it? You might as well just whistle it in, then club it over the head. At least that might be a little bit challenging - but not much. why even mention challenging oh thats right, because its only challenging if shot with a shotgun at a great height, sod the instant kill that a rifle gives, much better to go for that challenging shot, that could just as easily ***** it, leaving it to be lost as it crash lands god knows where to die slowly, but what the heck, it was challenging for you see, we can make it sound as silly as you found it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 what really surprises me is how many vermin shooters also hold the game shooting rights on their permissions they are really missing out by not putting birds down or maximising the sport on the ground. I know on all my ground I'd be kicked off pronto for taking pheasants with a rifle but down here the landowners do seem to know the difference between game and vermin and shoot accordingly. Of course not that most who do shoot them with a rifle will know but as Piebob says try whistling them in to get them closer. Most will be well used to it as keepers get them trained up at an early age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Hope he does as films like this wont. or do you want us to thank you for it. Nice choice of video :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted December 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 do you think this video is the norm I would say not, I think the trouble is some people have to keep pulling the trigger and need big bags which they cant get rid off same as some go out to shoot rabbits, deer etc but if not getting many shots off will shoot anything. If I had anyone on my ground who shot a game bird when here vermin shooting that would be the last time they would be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 that video is donkeys old and certainly not representative of big shoots these days. Part of the CA and BASC Game to Eat campaign was to increase the demand for game and it has worked, the estates I beat on produce a reasonable number of birds and there has always been a market for them either here or on the continent. I have been beating on some big days and they really are nothing like the slaughter you'd imagine as even a 600 bird day is usually shared between 10 guns and over up to about 8 drives. If you do the maths that is 60 birds over the course of a day and an average of 7.5 per drive, if the guys can shoot it isn't exactly mass slaughter. I prefer the sub 200 bird days but it all depends on what you are shooting, my brother was lucky enough to be on a 250 bird partridge day in devon and the shot count was close to 1200 for that bag we usually are in the region of 3 to 1 but they were very good birds flying fast and high. There is a lot of ignorance shown to game shooting usually from people who haven't got the foggiest about it and make it up in their own mind what its about as well as watching LACS videos shame really as game birds aren't on the vermin list and there is a good reason for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 If shooting game with a rifle is your cup of tea then why not. Its the same as saying oh i wanted to give the pheasant a sporting chance by shooting it on the wing but you will happily shoot a rabbit with a rifle/shotgun sitting still where-as these would offer a similair 'sporting' shot while running. Its perfectly okay to me during the seasons as long as it is a clean kill which brings about the question of whther you can guarantee that with a rifle? In regards to pests/vermin i cannot see how game birds could ever be classed as that and even so they can be controlled the same way as any pest within their respective seasons. The only downside about shooting with a rifle is that it may be classed as unsporting etc... and that it will fuel the anti's even more. If you have gained the permission to shoot and that permission issuer doesnt mind you taking game with a rifle then thats your choice. Maybe a perspective from BASC would be a good idea? WK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 you won't make much of a keeper with that view wannabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Really? How come? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 no keeper in the country raises birds to be shot with rifles thats why, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 At which point in my comment did i say i did that - or endorsed it for that matter? :unsure: I think you have totally miss-read my comments - obviously not liked them and made an outrageous statement. Never mind - everyone is entitled to their opinion. Open forum and all that. Have a good day mate. WK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez325 Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 If shooting game with a rifle is your cup of tea then why not. Its the same as saying oh i wanted to give the pheasant a sporting chance by shooting it on the wing but you will happily shoot a rabbit with a rifle/shotgun sitting still where-as these would offer a similair 'sporting' shot while running. Its perfectly okay to me during the seasons as long as it is a clean kill which brings about the question of whther you can guarantee that with a rifle? In regards to pests/vermin i cannot see how game birds could ever be classed as that and even so they can be controlled the same way as any pest within their respective seasons. The only downside about shooting with a rifle is that it may be classed as unsporting etc... and that it will fuel the anti's even more. If you have gained the permission to shoot and that permission issuer doesnt mind you taking game with a rifle then thats your choice. Maybe a perspective from BASC would be a good idea? WK Can you guarantee that with a shotgun- No I dont think you can Les :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) what really surprises me is how many vermin shooters also hold the game shooting rights on their permissions they are really missing out by not putting birds down or maximising the sport on the ground. I know on all my ground I'd be kicked off pronto for taking pheasants with a rifle but down here the landowners do seem to know the difference between game and vermin and shoot accordingly. Of course not that most who do shoot them with a rifle will know but as Piebob says try whistling them in to get them closer. Most will be well used to it as keepers get them trained up at an early age al4x You are promoting your view as Gospel, it is your view and you are perfectly entitled to it, that does not make others wrong. Some may simply not want any part of this so called "sport" And it is very rare anyone will take a pheasant on the ground with a rifle on pheasant shoot land anyway, it is the escapees on other land and those that breed from them on surrounding areas that get shot! There is a STRONG argument that Pheasant shoots are artificial and cruel, frankly I struggle to find much pleasure in shooting at half tame birds, reared from chicks and put up in the path of guns by a line of beaters, and many not even bothering with the birds afterwords. But if that excites anyone then it's fine by me. Shooting a game bird on the ground with a rifle may not excite some, (it rarely excites me, but it happens) and frankly many will not get a chance anyway, they simply have to pay daft money to stand in a line and shoot them when they fly over. I'm not quite sure where this thread is going, but I expect nowhere! ATB! Edited December 10, 2010 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) ok a challengs find me any UK shooting organisation that classes gamebirds as quarry for airguns or rifles Edited December 10, 2010 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe_keeper Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 You wont find an organisation saying that. But you also wont find one saying the opposite. WK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliengravy Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Firstly, find me a UK law that states you have to chase anything you kill, before you kill it! Secondly, find me a UK law that allows "sporting" birds to be shot for "sporting" purposes. (I will honestly be interested, as I am yet to see a law that allows the taking of game for "fun"! They all state "Crop protection and vermin") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) You wont find an organisation saying that. But you also wont find one saying the opposite. WK actually this is BASC on airguns and game birds All birds are protected, and although there are seasons when you can legally shoot game, and some wildfowl, they are not suitable quarry for air rifles more on Game shooting and how to do it can be found here http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/game-and-gamekeeping/game-shooting/ Edited December 10, 2010 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Firstly, find me a UK law that states you have to chase anything you kill, before you kill it! Secondly, find me a UK law that allows "sporting" birds to be shot for "sporting" purposes. (I will honestly be interested, as I am yet to see a law that allows the taking of game for "fun"! They all state "Crop protection and vermin") on your second point, Game birds are totally separate and as such are not on the general licence and neither are they on the protected list which includes all uk wild birds not on the general license. They are however covered by Game acts which lists the seasons and not shooting in England on sundays etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 Hiya, actually this is BASC on airguns and game birds All birds are protected, and although there are seasons when you can legally shoot game, and some wildfowl, they are not suitable quarry for air rifles Actualy that could do with being clarified as a FAC rated Air Rifle running at 34ftlb is a diffrent beast compaired to a Air Rifle running at 11.5ftlb "All birds are protected, and although there are seasons when you can legally shoot game, and some wildfowl, they are not suitable quarry for air rifles under 12ftlb" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 oh no being the BASC I'm sure they mean all air rifles as they also don't recommend rimfires or centrefires for the job but feel free to check with DavidBASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 why even mention challenging oh thats right, because its only challenging if shot with a shotgun at a great height, No, you've missed my point. I have rifles, I have shotguns. Part of the challenge I find in rifle shooting are the tactics required to get near your quarry. You need to be stealthy, silent, downwind, and numerous others things to get near your quarry - whether it's a rabbit, deer, fox. There is absolutely no challenge (sport) in shooting a pheasant with a rifle. As I said, you can walk right up to it if you know how - close enough to kick. leaving it to be lost as it crash lands god knows where to die slowly, but what the heck, it was challenging for you The trouble with posts like that is that they clearly demonstrate that you have never been on a commercial shoot, whether that is grouse, pheasants or partidge. If you had you'd know you were totally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 The trouble with posts like that is that they clearly demonstrate that you have never been on a commercial shoot, whether that is grouse, pheasants or partidge. If you had you'd know you were totally wrong. no I hav'ent and would'ent want to, to be honest, but your reading my post wrongly, my permission does not raise game, they wander in from adjoining property, so if I can be sure of a clean humaine kill with a rifle, I would take it, and get slatted by the "sporting shooters" here, yet if I was mouching with a shotgun,and saw "game" as some have suggested to me in past posts, rather than shoot it with the shotgun where it stands, they suggested I should walk up, kick the bird to make it fly, then shoot it, as thats sporting :unsure: and it could then crash dive somewhere to die, as I dont take a dog, in that scenario I will vote for the rifle shot, unsporting but humaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 I really don't get this! It's not illegal to shoot a Pheasant with a rifle so what's the problem? Someone above slated me for shooting a Pheasant with my Deer rifle and for saying that I go Deer stalking because the fridge is empty. Well to whoever that was, good for you for being able to go out on a paid day, shoot a Deer/Pheasant at stupid cost and then leave the carcass with your guide to go to the game dealer. That's not how I play the game I'm afraid. I shoot because I enjoy it but I also shoot for food. I'll only shoot a Deer if there's room for it in the freezer and if I see a Pheasant on a quiet day I will take it with my rifle. Get over it, I'm not breaking any rules! All this "holier than thou" attitude will be the downfall of shooting. As much as I don't like it you don't hear me slagging off people that go out and shoot 100 Pheasants without taking a single one home. They go somewhere and are consumed by someone so it's ok, but to me it's no more sporting than smacking one with a rifle and eating it. At least I'm shooting it for a reason other than fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ireland's Finest! Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 no, they aint vermin, and you dont "blast" with a rifle, its just having a different attitude, take a pigeon shooter, spotting a fox coming out of a hedge near his hide, he'll probably take a shot at it, probably he'll use both barrels, or 3 if semi, he wont have the correct carts in, but he knows two barrels will do the job, it does happen as Ived read plenty of posts on here saying such things, it might get a bit of stick from a few armchair warriors, but thats it, it wont turn into 6 pages of how he should have used a centre fire or such and such calibre, the same goes if your out shooting bunnies with a rimmy and see "game" your not going to say, sod it, its not flying and the shotguns indoors, I cant shot it as its unsporting, I feel your missing the point here, The pigeon shooter would be write because a fox is vermin and should be shot on site. Were as the person out shooting bunnies doesn't need to shoot the pheasnat as obviously its not vermin and should be left for when your out with the shgotgun because if he doesnt shoot it, it doen't make a difference were as the fox will do damage if not shot. Thats my opinion anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted December 10, 2010 Report Share Posted December 10, 2010 I feel your missing the point here, The pigeon shooter would be write because a fox is vermin and should be shot on site. Were as the person out shooting bunnies doesn't need to shoot the pheasnat as obviously its not vermin and should be left for when your out with the shgotgun because if he doesnt shoot it, it doen't make a difference were as the fox will do damage if not shot. Thats my opinion anyway fair point, in my defense, I'll only shoot if its going on the table, I dont shoot partridges at all as I dont like the taste, or maybe its just my wifes cooking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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