rodp Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 You're all missing the big point here. Most doctors, consultants, firemen, paramedics etc, etc do the job because they WANT to. They are mostly genuine, caring people. The ones that need sorting out are the money grabbing, self serving bankers, local government and council to**ers, greedy sportsmen etc. They do it at anyones expense just to steal money for themselves, and yes, it's now being proven that they DO steal it (look at the MPs). And in answer to the above post regarding local council workers, I have yet to meet one that puts the public before their bloated pension and sick pay scheme. Sorry, but it had to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddywack12 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I dont understand the comments made by Mungler under should have paid more attention at school. When will members of the public notice that we need all types of education standards to fill all the diffrent types of work in the UK. For me a surgeon is no more important than a dustbin collector I hope you never have a burst appendix or require a heart bypass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 It sounds alot of money but i sooner have anyone in the NHS or forces receiving it, rather then fat bankers to be honest. Skills of a surgeon are worth every penny in my book to be honest,and if they were on £1000 for 4 hours OT they fare play to them.... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Could I just ad here, and I know that we are talking large sums of money here, but if a surgeon earns £1000 for four hours overtime in the NHS (and lets be honest we are not talking about clocking on and off having a fag break and just getting through the day) He/She will actually be earning a lot less than if they went off to their private practice, four hours equals at least two knee replacements cost £28,000 in the private sector. so whilst it sounds strange they are doing it for the NHS as much as for themselves. now my mum has recently died and the soliciter is charging £200 plus an hour, just for telephoning and answering a few letters. but they take on a resposibility and put in the hours to get their qualifications. does a footballer deserve £200,000 a week, of course not but that is what he is worth, doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 To be honest, i don't see the issue. Any doctor; let alone surgeon has invested many years and a hell of a lot of money to achieve the level of skill and knowledge in order to perform the task. Not to forget all the stupidly long hours as a junior doctor, SHO etc as they progress. I used to mork in medical engineering within a large NHS trust and worked in theatres etc and actually got to see their work first hand and it's truly awesome. I can't think of many other jobs where what you decide to do can be a life or death decision, let alone the very short decision timeframes and pressured environment. Respect due to them! Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Agree Mungs you cant compare the work a surgeon does to a till girl/boy. But is a surgeon worth roughly £950 more over four hours overtime than the nat wage earner I think not. Cheers OTH the one who fixed my leg is worth his weight in gold as far as I am concerned,you cant group them in the "average" wage spectrum, as like it or not they are not the "average" worker, if everyone was to be paid the same there would be no incentive do any thing other than sweep the path at the front of your house, KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 anyone could pick up a binbag and throw it in the back of a lorry....a doctor, nurse etc are worth alot more for what they have to put up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 For me a surgeon is no more important than a dustbin collector Yes I can see it now. You're laid out on the operating table, the anaesthetist gives you a jab and tells you to relax, you're feeling sleeeeepy....... Then, suddenly, from the corner of your eye and in your sleepy haze.........you catch a glimpse of the surgeon walking in to theatre, all masked and gloved up just as you imagined him to be............... Let the surgery begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 I hope you never need a surgeon OTH, because you certainly don't deserve one. Of course they are worth that sort of money. They also get £920 more than I do over the same 4 hours yet I don't save peoples lives by either putting them back together or removing parts that will do them harm. I suppose you think you should be earning that sort of money for cutting a branch off a tree or shooting a pigeon? Are you really saying I dont deserve NHS treatment because I think the surgeon who may treat me is overpaid ,the reason I deserve treatment is pay my tax to provide this service I just dont think such huge sum should go to that surgeon who may operate on me. Doc holiday thinks his solictor is overpaid so do you think he does not deserve there service because of his views . No I dont think I should earn that sort of money despite it being a much higher risk job in terms of personal injury factor. Happy days OTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 If you really want to talk money, try this on I earn £36k running my businesses, thats right, 2 of them. I work hard and I'm very pleased with my lot. Then some drunk driver stuffs his car into me and serioulsy injures me. Thanks to the skill of the surgeons and the nurses, I make a full recovery and go on to spend the rest of my life earning £36k. If I didn't make a full recovery I would be on the sick for the rest of my life...so that £1000 to operate on me was a damned good investment, wasn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 No I dont think I should earn that sort of money despite it being a much higher risk job in terms of personal injury factor. Happy days OTH You've hit the nail on the head there. If you're daft enough to put a chainsaw through your legs then some clever sod's gonna have to try and stick them back on for you. And it ain't gonna be the binman or the checkout girl at Tesco. Now I reckon with a sharp knife, a saw and some sticky back plastic I could do a quick amputation for you, but you'll be needing a skilled surgeon to keep you out of a wheelchair for the rest of your life. Perhaps you can put a price on that sort of skill? I'm damn sure I couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 At the end of the day the surgeons we are talking about are NHS surgeons not private so there wages should be kept in check like ever other NHS worker wages . Some on PW complain about unfairness of life EG overpaid MPs or bankers footballers yet defend the wages of surgeons etc I cant see it . Cheers OTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 You've hit the nail on the head there. If you're daft enough to put a chainsaw through your legs then some clever sod's gonna have to try and stick them back on for you. And it ain't gonna be the binman or the checkout girl at Tesco. Now I reckon with a sharp knife, a saw and some sticky back plastic I could do a quick amputation for you, but you'll be needing a skilled surgeon to keep you out of a wheelchair for the rest of your life. Perhaps you can put a price on that sort of skill? I'm damn sure I couldn't. Succinct and to the point that reply. Indeed, the "price" on the surgeon's skill is determined by free market forces and the supply of and demand for skilled surgeons. The supply is determined by the length and cost of education and training and of course an individual's actual ability to do and understand surgery. Not many candidates will or are capable of making the academic grade, not many will want to not earn a bean until they qualify at 30 years of age, not many will want or be able to fund their continuing education and training and living expenses to 30, not many will want to wait until they reach 40 when the proper bucks roll in and when they are experienced and or "consulting". The demand is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Mungler whats your view on bankers wages and bonus do you think they should they be capped . EDITED also Mungler whats your views on there threat to down tools if there wage is cut. Cheers OTH Edited January 14, 2011 by Over the hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 At the end of the day the surgeons we are talking about are NHS surgeons not private so there wages should be kept in check like ever other NHS worker wages . Some on PW complain about unfairness of life EG overpaid MPs or bankers footballers yet defend the wages of surgeons etc I cant see it . Cheers OTH It's all about value for money. MP's tend to come in for criticism because they're not percieved to be value for money. It's not so much what they earn that's the problem, more the fact that they often don't seem to actually earn it. Bankers and footballers aren't paid from the public purse, so are irrelevant to your argument. Consultants/surgeons are pretty much at the top of the tree in the NHS and have worked their way into that position over many years. Specialist nurses at the top of tree can earn 60k - 70k too. Or are they overpaid too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 So, the Country is skint and the numbers involved are ridiculous; the level of the Country's debt is like winning the Euro Millions lottery quintuple roll over and then placing a bet on a horse at a billion to one and in coming in. So should surgeons be exempt from your broad statement on the UK Chhers OTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 The footballer argument boils my **** to be honest. Football is a business, simple as that. Now, if David Beckham can WOW people with his style so that they want to watch him, and sell 20000 shirts across the world each week then why doesn't he deserve to be paid a fortune? If he can make that money from shirt sales, TV rights, ticket sales etc for his bosses, surely he deserves to be rewarded for it? It's no different to an investment banker who can spot market trends or a cabinet maker who can knock up a beautiful kitchen. The skills make the money for the boss, and therefore need paying for. Footballers are lucky in that the market is absolutely huge, so many fans willing to pay money to see them or dress like them. Just as much skill in professional rugby, but not the fan base to make the money to pay the huge wages. Michael Schumacher could drive a car very, very fast. That was his skill. He also got paid $50 MILLION over two years for it. Makes footballers look like paupers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 So, the Country is skint and the numbers involved are ridiculous; the level of the Country's debt is like winning the Euro Millions lottery quintuple roll over and then placing a bet on a horse at a billion to one and in coming in. So should surgeons be exempt from your broad statement on the UK Chhers OTH Much the same as all businesses, trades and professions - if you want the best, you have to pay for them or they go elsewhere. Wouldn't be much good if the surgeons salaries were slashed and they all turned around and said "**** the NHS, we're going to America/ Australia or going to set up privately in this country" where would we be then? Up **** creek is where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snozzer Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 When you or your loved ones are lying on a bed in need of a surgeons skill, will an MP, Banker or kissballer be of any use. Nope you will want a well trained and experienced surgeon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 We talk about free market forces but aren't the free market forces, for a NHS surgeon, the private health sector? Therefore if the NHS wages are not competitive in some shape or form they will go and do more private work and deprive the NHS of their services. Or have I got it wrong? No different to any other job isn't is? they may continue to work for the NHS because it's their "calling" but they don't have to. The thing about the private health sector is that the good one earn more than the bad ones (there is patient choice and who is going to give their money to a bad surgeon?). Which means we should reward good NHS surgeons and let the bad ones survive in the free market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 So should surgeons be exempt from your broad statement on the UK Chhers OTH That doesn't make any sense. If you are suggesting that surgeons' wages should be capped or cut as part of State cost cutting and rationalisation then that will depend on "supply and demand". If you have hospitals jam packed with patients that need operating on and you have a finite supply of surgeons, then sacking off surgeons or cutting their money will do more harm than good. The normal route to bring the cost down is to flood supply by bringing in surgeons from abroad.... that's another thread. The thing with a highly specialist or qualified trade e.g. like a brain surgeon is that there are very few out there and it's not as though you can simply "bring in" another 1,000 over night - there's training, funding and on job experience required (see above). However, if you are a bin man, it's very easy to find an extra 1,000 bin men over night or find someone that will empty bins for less money than those that currently do. Simples. Supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sarakun Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 My view for what it's worth, is they are worth every penny and I go along with everything said regarding when the knives come out and it's my kith or kin on that table, I want the best. I am sure OTH that you too would want the same. If you experience a twinge of guilt at the cost of a repair to your leg, heaven forbid you ever slice it with that chainsaw, you could always take your white stiletto into Essex, where I am sure you would attract someone who would love to sew it back on. It may be inadvertently sown onto your head mind, but you will not have burdened the tax payer in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsniffer Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Ask the average squaddie whos just joined the army at 16 then when 18 hes in afghan fighting on 200+ pounds a week he gets serious injuries which are life threatening would he be worried the surgeon gets paid more than him ? NO...ask all the other service men and women who with out the surgeons help would NOT be here today..there are thousands...who would not be here today. Im sure they would all say they are worth every penny... They deserve every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Surgeons/Consultants? Whatever, or possibly both, I'd be happier knowing the bloke with the knife whilst I was unconscious was content with his take home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddywack12 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 My view for what it's worth, is they are worth every penny and I go along with everything said regarding when the knives come out and it's my kith or kin on that table, I want the best. I am sure OTH that you too would want the same. If you experience a twinge of guilt at the cost of a repair to your leg, heaven forbid you ever slice it with that chainsaw, you could always take your white stiletto into Essex, where I am sure you would attract someone who would love to sew it back on. It may be inadvertently sown onto your head mind, but you will not have burdened the tax payer in the process. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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