foxbasher Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 evening all. ive been approached by a few of my permissions over the last year with regards to providing them with a dispatch service if needed in an emergency. were talking horses and cattle with the occasional roe deer, ive done two roe in the last 18 months (one dog attack and one on a barbed wire fence). ive got a .223 and a .22 on restricted ticket and a 10g, 12g and a silenced 410 on my sgc. what do you think of my chances in getting 410 slug for humane dispatch. i dont really want to invest in another gun at the moment and i already have the loading gear for the 410 so can load my own slugs. also if i get humane dispatch put on my fac am i restricted to where i can perform it??. cheers, steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 you don't need it 12b and 6's will do anything, deer on road the .410 will do with 6's as well when you shoot them from 1ft away or so the shot doesn't spread anyway so effectively it is a slug FAC is far too complicated to be worth doing, you need an open ticket or you are restricted still and you do need humane despatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Apache gave me a link to a very useful article on humane despatch but at close range No 6 shot from 12/20 or .410 is enough and much safer as less chance of a ricochet etc. You do need to know where to aim it and there are restrictions if if was to go into the food chain I would say modded .410 with hush powers is the ideal tool for the job. http://www.hsa.org.uk/Publications/Guidance%20Notes.html £5.00 and well worth it if you have been asked to perform such duties. Edited February 25, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 use 410 sub-sonic carts, with the hushpower, 4" from the skull, and as stated at that distance it hits still as a solid mass of shot, so really no need for slugs the hushpower is what I first bought as a dispatch tool, now have the open fac and humane dispatch condition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveo26 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 A .410 is not suitable for humane dispatch, you would be better applying for a pistol I would not want to shoot anything in the head from 4" with a 12 bore. Think of the mess :o and possibility of ricochets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveo26 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sorry the above should say .410 slug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 If the idea is to humane dispatch only in an emergency then forget about a pistol,For roe a .410 with 6 shot is fine but once you get into horse and cattle you need something a bit bigger I keep a box of 50g bb's in the truck as occasionally there isn't time to run home for a pistol and I always have a 12 with me, you really don't need slugs just a couple of boxes of appropriate shotgun ammo to hand I would also suggest as is said above reading up or even better as I did ask the hunt to tag along on their fallen stock run then you will see first hand P.s even with a 12 or pistol if done correctly there is no mess or risk of ricochet when shooting horse or cattle however when dispatching small cranium'd animals such as deer you need to be more careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 .410 more than enough to kill adult cattle and horses. I have a picture of a cow shot with 30g number 6 that I'll post - acts like a slug at 6-12 inches. The HSA link is really worth having, for £5. The aim point is different for different animals and I would say the most difficult thing to shoot is the horse, you need to be higher comparatively compared to cattle and deer. You don't need or want a slug! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbasher Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 cheers lads. ive got a small pile of big 12g loads. 3" mags in 50g bb and no3 they seem very poky for close range shooting tho. ive loaded some 3" 410 before with a range of shot (BB, AAA, 3, 1) would you use these instead of the 6s if you had the choice. i may keep an eye out for a cheap 12g hushpower as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 cheers lads. ive got a small pile of big 12g loads. 3" mags in 50g bb and no3 they seem very poky for close range shooting tho. ive loaded some 3" 410 before with a range of shot (BB, AAA, 3, 1) would you use these instead of the 6s if you had the choice. i may keep an eye out for a cheap 12g hushpower as well. In 50 odd years of stock farming I've shot more large animals then I care to remember. A .410 with 5 or 6 shot is perfect for the job, failing that a 12 with the same shot size. However, do be careful especially with horses as they can have a tendency to thrash about. As has been said do get some experiance from someone who knows what they are doing for the various species you will be dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbasher Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 cheers mate, will do. dosnt look like i need to worry about getting a variation then. In 50 odd years of stock farming I've shot more large animals then I care to remember. A .410 with 5 or 6 shot is perfect for the job, failing that a 12 with the same shot size. However, do be careful especially with horses as they can have a tendency to thrash about. As has been said do get some experiance from someone who knows what they are doing for the various species you will be dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzrat Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Used to do all our pigs with a shotgun, as said before decent size load and shot size and you'll do fine. If shot from the front with the shot path directly down the line of the body there will be just a smallish hole in the skull and no mess. The shot continues down the neck and into the body (if it gets that far) so no nasty exit wound. Fuzrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveo26 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well i stand corrected. I would never have risked shooting cattle with a 12 bore, purly because i wasnt certain of the outcome But fair play if you lads have done it then is do-able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I would agree with using a 12, however a silenced .22lr is useful for sheep in sheds, but the angle has to be right so the bullet travel is down the neck/spine to absorb any excess energy and ensure the bullet doesn`t exit the carcass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I would agree with using a 12, however a silenced .22lr is useful for sheep in sheds, but the angle has to be right so the bullet travel is down the neck/spine to absorb any excess energy and ensure the bullet doesn`t exit the carcass. Although I have used that method in the past I would only do it if I was the only person in she shed. I do think a shotgun safer inside buildings. A .22 more than capable on a cow/sheep horse if you shoot them in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 i have no experience with humane despatch, but i thing the 50gram cartridges are a joke. i do think a 1oz minimum #6, and maximum 42g of bb. flinching with big loads is possible, and the 32gram loads are enough at 4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCD Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 i have no experience with humane despatch, but i thing the 50gram cartridges are a joke. i do think a 1oz minimum #6, and maximum 42g of bb. flinching with big loads is possible, and the 32gram loads are enough at 4". As you have never done it how would you know I truly think some of you need your head read this man has no experience and the chances are will only ever shoot a handful in his lifetime better to go with too much gun than not enough but I guess the inexperienced experts on here would manage a perfect shot in every situation even if the animal is in distress Fallen stock doesn't necessarily mean immobile stock as I said I normally use a pistol be it .22 or .357 I would not expect a inexperienced user to manage a clean kill with either but yet again the internet experts will advise this.No animal has ever complained of being killed with too much gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADFEET Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I would agree with using a 12, however a silenced .22lr is useful for sheep in sheds, but the angle has to be right so the bullet travel is down the neck/spine to absorb any excess energy and ensure the bullet doesn`t exit the carcass. Believe it or not I have had a shot from a .22 pistol bounce clean off a sheeps head from point blank when fired from the front, would always shoot from the back of the skull now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 i have no experience with humane despatch, but i thing the 50gram cartridges are a joke. i do think a 1oz minimum #6, and maximum 42g of bb. flinching with big loads is possible, and the 32gram loads are enough at 4". Based on what, exactly? A .410 is more than enough. Look at the muzzle energy of a .410 cart and compare to a .32/.257! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Sometimes when I read threads such as this one I despair. I sometimes feel that when this question pops up, as it often does, the poster relishes the task viewing the beast as a very large quarry species to try his gun on. Just because a chap has a rifle or a shotgun and enjoys shooting a few pigeons or foxes he feels he is competent to destroy farm stock and horses. I should add that these comments are not directed at the OP. Humanly shooting a horses and cattle is a totally different kettle of fish. You must know where the brain is, where to aim and most importantly what to expect. I was called out once to finish off a horse that a shooting chap had had a go at and after botching the job and with the horse thrashing about he could not bring himself to fire another shot. By the time I got there the horse was all but dead but must have suffered terribly. His chosen toy was his trusty .243 which he assured me was a powerful caliber that had never let him down on all the deer he had shot and he just could not understand where he went wrong. As we have all said the best tool for the job is a .410 held a few inches away from the correct aim point. Sorry to rant but every one of the 100's of beasts I have shot has broken my heart and to see a load of amateurs discussing how to do it gets my goat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Charlie I agree but I feel open debate is the only way to educate those who may find themselves in this situation knowing where to put it is more important that what you use. I personally think all SGC and FAC holder should have some training in humane despatch I hope I would have the stomach for it but I never want to find out! Having heard the sound or the knackermans gun I have a lot of respect for the pro's who do the job expertly and cleanly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washwildfowler Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) evening all. ive been approached by a few of my permissions over the last year with regards to providing them with a dispatch service if needed in an emergency. were talking horses and cattle with the occasional roe deer, ive done two roe in the last 18 months (one dog attack and one on a barbed wire fence). ive got a .223 and a .22 on restricted ticket and a 10g, 12g and a silenced 410 on my sgc. what do you think of my chances in getting 410 slug for humane dispatch. i dont really want to invest in another gun at the moment and i already have the loading gear for the 410 so can load my own slugs. also if i get humane dispatch put on my fac am i restricted to where i can perform it??. cheers, steve. hi steve ,please dont take this the wrong way when i ask have you any experience in shooting , cattle , sheep,and horses ? if not perhaps it would be wise for you to have a look for a local abattoir get in contact with them asking if you go along to see some cattle being shot , i dont think you will see sheep being shot because its all done by electric stun now days .. if you dont get any joy there try your local vet or even have a look about on the net .. it would perhaps be in your own interest to have a look into applying for a slaughtermans license this will allow you to stick (cut the cows throat ) after being shot ..in most cases if its a casualty beast the farmer , or owner would take it to a abattior and the throat would have to be cut to drain the blood first ... so it would be dealt with there .... i have been a slaughterman for 20 years and have seen so many cock ups from people thinking its easy to shoot a beast or even worse shooting a horse there is a certain position on the cows for head where to be shot and its even more difficult to shoot a horse , i had to go on a five day course on shooting horses , and i still hate it every time i get the callout to go shoot one .... also have a look at other options on what to use for humane dispatch , ie captive bolt .. IMO I think a 12bore is over kill for point blank range especially if the beast or horse is thrashing about under stress also looking at it from a safety aspect .... like has already been said a 410 with 5, 6 shot will do the job safe enough .. but just remember at the end of the day its all about the quickest and cleanest kill for the animal and stress free ..... Edited February 26, 2011 by washwildfowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 if you dont get any joy there but just remember at the end of the day its all about the quickest and cleanest kill for the animal and stress free Thank you for saying that. I had the unfortunate experience of having to be there when one of my Ex's horses had to be put down, as I shoot I was asked to come and do it quickly as I live about 2mins from where she was, I simply couldn't do it as there was no way I could be sure of a quick clean kill. We had to wait almost 2 hours with her until the vet could get there and see to it, whilst he did it very quickly I wish I had known what to do and could have saved her those last 2 hours of suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbasher Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) hi steve ,please dont take this the wrong way when i ask have you any experience in shooting , cattle , sheep,and horses ? if not perhaps it would be wise for you to have a look for a local abattoir get in contact with them asking if you go along to see some cattle being shot , i dont think you will see sheep being shot because its all done by electric stun now days .. if you dont get any joy there try your local vet or even have a look about on the net .. it would perhaps be in your own interest to have a look into applying for a slaughtermans license this will allow you to stick (cut the cows throat ) after being shot ..in most cases if its a casualty beast the farmer , or owner would take it to a abattior and the throat would have to be cut to drain the blood first ... so it would be dealt with there .... i have been a slaughterman for 20 years and have seen so many cock ups from people thinking its easy to shoot a beast or even worse shooting a horse there is a certain position on the cows for head where to be shot and its even more difficult to shoot a horse , i had to go on a five day course on shooting horses , and i still hate it every time i get the callout to go shoot one .... also have a look at other options on what to use for humane dispatch , ie captive bolt .. IMO I think a 12bore is over kill for point blank range especially if the beast or horse is thrashing about under stress also looking at it from a safety aspect .... like has already been said a 410 with 5, 6 shot will do the job safe enough .. but just remember at the end of the day its all about the quickest and cleanest kill for the animal and stress free ..... no offence taken, all helpful criticism noted and appreciated. so far, my personal experience only extends to a handful of deer. a few years back i was good friends with a local (now emigrated) knacker man at one of our shoots, we used to use him for all the HD at the stables and farm. he used a captive bolt and a .357 for most. i was only seeking advise on the subject and didn't want to cause offence to anyone involved. its not a task i would relish or enjoy but if the situation arises and i have the means to end the suffering of fallen livestock then i would. i didn't get my guns and start shooting yesterday, ive been shooting for 23 years from the age of 7. im not looking to "bag bigger quarry", just help out if and when needed in an emergency. like i said at the start, no offence taken. just trying to tap in to the knowledge of those more experienced on the subject. cheers, steve. Edited February 27, 2011 by foxbasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Never done this myself but my Uncle is a cattle man and shooter does his own Cattle and Sheep but he wont do a Horse as he says it's to hard. Hats of to theguys with the shill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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