Permission slips

[shaun s]

I have been shooting on this land for over 20 years. With the farmers permission I have put them down on the application form for my firarms, however they are not happy to complete the permission slips which North Wales Police claim they need to process my application.

 

Is it a legal requirement for these slips to be completed or is it merely a formality?

 

If you take a look on this link - right at the bottom has a significant statment, but is this just for this area (North Yorkshire) or is it standard accross UK?

 

It states: This is not mandatory?

 

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=4945&p=0

 

any info would be great, or have you come accross this yourself would be good to hear how you dealt with the situation.

 

thanks

[apache]

There is no legal requirement, but having it in writing makes their checks easier and may speed the process along.

 

I have no silly 'permission slips'

[vampire]

Would the farmer sign at permission that YOU type out,thats all thats needed,i had no written permission that i gave with my application,just a contact number for them to check,land was already cleared and the flo knew the farmer.

I have written permissions of my own design for all my land,not one of the land owners had ever seen or heard of anyone having written permission,but i now have all there details on paper for all 18 owners and maps of boundries,quarry permitted and calibre restrictions etc.

I find this to be useful,as all my perms are different and have varied rules which i would forget and in any case if i ever got stopped whilst shooting then i would be able to produce the signed permission/boundrie/calibre allowed/copy of licence and hopefully that would be an end to it.

[Dekers]

My business clients sign as part of the contract, it's easy to waffle on about guns/law/land/requirement then, as for my general shooting land then I probably have written permission from about 60-70%.

 

There is no legal requirement to process your application, but having something in writing can make life easier at times!

[pigeonstool]

Because I have an open F A Certificate, and I decide what calibre and ground I shoot over, I feel that paper proof is needed. (FAC needs a copy anyway) Heres' a copy (tweeked :unsure: ) of the letters. I ask for three copies to be signed; FAC application / farmer's copy / My copy. It also means that the farmer has "supported" my choice of calibre for his terrain / vermin.

 

 

 

Mr. A B Charlie

Billies Farm

Gwynedd

LL69 7UP

01696 123456

 

 

 

Greater Manchester Police

Firearms Licensing Unit

Openshaw Complex

Lawton Street

Openshaw

Manchester M11 2NS

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

THE FIREARMS ACT 1968 & AMENDMENTS 1997

 

I hereby give permission to Mr. Donald Pigeonstool of The Manor House, Posh Village, Wigan, to shoot game and control vermin on this farm. He has my full authority to use both .22 RF and .22-250 rifles as appropriate, and a shotgun for this purpose.

 

If for any reason this permission is withdrawn, I will give both Mr. Pigeonstool and the Chief Officer of Police for the area three month's notice in writing of my intentions.

[CharlieT]

As Apache says there is no legal requirement to have permission to shoot in writing.

 

All this designing ones own forms and providing more information than required by law only serves to keep the paper chase snowball rolling and sets dangerous presidents for future requirements.

 

In time we will have encouraged the police to require so much detail from us that fac applications will become so impossibly complex they will become impossible.

 

I follow the keep it simple rule and supply only details that are required by law. In 50 odd years of shooting I have never had permission in writing.

[al4x]

Its a funny one it may not be a legal requirement and up till my last renewal they just had the name and address of the farm I used as my main one and called them to check. Last renewal the permission form was needed and the renewal wouldn't be processed were the words I got. Wasn't a big issue and certainly in 15 years shooting was the first time I'd had written permission

[pigeonstool]

I think the "problem" lies in that with an 'open cert' like mine - the police do not check the land or speak to the owner - then give permission to use a rifle on it; a simple letter like mine will suffice ....

The letter also gives the land owner a get out clause (confidence in you)... needed at times !!!

 

Those who are required to have the land 'checked' by the police, first check "their list" in the office, then add your request to it if approved ..

IMHO - All the current police "initiatives" seem to be about saving police manpower / time / resources = ££££££s, and maybe the variations across the various forces, are related to their 'individual' cost-cutting requirements ........

Paper chase - just ask a sheep farmer about that -- but wear your defenders first - it's going to happen more and more.

 

remember - if you do not have "paper evidence" the land owner could very easily accuse you of armed trespass if you "had words" at some point :o I hear the food is quite good nowerdays, and you get a broadband PC / widescreen HD tele ................

Edited May 5, 2011 by pigeonstool

[Dekers]

Because I have an open F A Certificate, and I decide what calibre and ground I shoot over, I feel that paper proof is needed. (FAC needs a copy anyway) Heres' a copy (tweeked :unsure: ) of the letters. I ask for three copies to be signed; FAC application / farmer's copy / My copy. It also means that the farmer has "supported" my choice of calibre for his terrain / vermin.

 

 

 

Mr. A B Charlie

Billies Farm

Gwynedd

LL69 7UP

01696 123456

 

 

 

Greater Manchester Police

Firearms Licensing Unit

Openshaw Complex

Lawton Street

Openshaw

Manchester M11 2NS

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

THE FIREARMS ACT 1968 & AMENDMENTS 1997

 

I hereby give permission to Mr. Donald Pigeonstool of The Manor House, Posh Village, Wigan, to shoot game and control vermin on this farm. He has my full authority to use both .22 RF and .22-250 rifles as appropriate, and a shotgun for this purpose.

 

If for any reason this permission is withdrawn, I will give both Mr. Pigeonstool and the Chief Officer of Police for the area three month's notice in writing of my intentions.

 

OK, sit down and prepare to be offended...... I see this sort of Bull all the time, written by idiots who think they are clever.....

 

I am amazed that *******t works for you, I would get laughed out of town down here with that, why does everyone waffle on and tie themselves down...so what happens if you buy and sell a gun, and just why exactly do you want/need anything about permission being withdrawn?? and THE FIREARMS ACT 1968 & AMENDMENTS 1997...so nothing else is important or to be considered hey???..... to be fair that is one of the shortest I have seen, but you are still stuffed, many appear to want to write pages...**** **f, keep it simple and VERY OPEN!

 

What about......

 

Fred Smith has permission to be on the land known as ............at all times of day and night to control game and vermin by shooting!

 

THE END!

 

Now then, just which bit of that is open to any debate or interpretation or restricts you at all!

 

[CharlieT]

I think the "problem" lies in that with an 'open cert' like mine - the police do not check the land or speak to the owner - then give permission to use a rifle on it; a simple letter like mine will suffice ....

The letter also gives the land owner a get out clause (confidence in you)... needed at times !!!

 

Those who are required to have the land 'checked' by the police, first check "their list" in the office, then add your request to it if approved ..

IMHO - All the current police "initiatives" seem to be about saving police manpower / time / resources = ££££££s, and maybe the variations across the various forces, are related to their 'individual' cost-cutting requirements ........

Paper chase - just ask a sheep farmer about that -- but wear your defenders first - it's going to happen more and more.

 

remember - if you do not have "paper evidence" the land owner could very easily accuse you of armed trespass if you "had words" at some point :o I hear the food is quite good nowerdays, and you get a broadband PC / widescreen HD tele ................

 

You are indeed a very special and lucky person to have such an open cert. One that negates the police from the need or requirement under the firearms act, should they so wish, to confirm that you have somewhere to use your firearm. How do I go about getting one.

 

I'm a little lost regarding your analogy to sheep, farmers, paper chases and ear defenders. Must be some form of noisy origami that's beyond my pay grade.

 

All I can say is that down here, in this neck of the woods, when a farmer says you can have a walk round with your gun he means it and would never not stand by his word. Must be a funny lot down your way if they can not be trusted to honour their word and you need to get it in writing.

 

I refuse to join the modern trend and appetite for form filling and supplying unnecessary information for the sake of it and derive great enjoyment from not doing so and to hell with the consequences.

[rabbiter]

You are indeed a very special and lucky person to have such an open cert. One that negates the police from the need or requirement under the firearms act, should they so wish, to confirm that you have somewhere to use your firearm. How do I go about getting one.

 

I'm a little lost regarding your analogy to sheep, farmers, paper chases and ear defenders. Must be some form of noisy origami that's beyond my pay grade.

 

All I can say is that down here, in this neck of the woods, when a farmer says you can have a walk round with your gun he means it and would never not stand by his word. Must be a funny lot down your way if they can not be trusted to honour their word and you need to get it in writing.

 

I refuse to join the modern trend and appetite for form filling and supplying unnecessary information for the sake of it and derive great enjoyment from not doing so and to hell with the consequences.

 

its a good thing we dont all have that kind of attitude,if you bother to get a permission slip from the land owner,and carry it while youre shooting there,if someone stops you,ie the police,you can show them the slip,instead of "oh yes ive got permission to shoot here officer",otherwise the police may pay a visit to the farmer,possibly causing him an inconvenience,but certainly causing you an inconvenience,imo it shows responsibility,that youve bothered to get the written permission in the first place,but i suppose its down to the individual which route he takes concerning his,no doubt hard won permission.

[Vermincinerator]

I have my permission slips worded......to use rimfire and centrefire rifle etc...., no calibre specifics.

My mate recently renewed with warks and they sent out such a form which he duly filled in even though i told him he did not need too because we had perfectly good, valid written permission slips for each of our pieces of ground.

 

Ian.

[Vermincinerator]

Shaun,

Is this a renewal or a first application for your FAC?

 

Ian.

[CharlieT]

its a good thing we dont all have that kind of attitude,if you bother to get a permission slip from the land owner,and carry it while youre shooting there,if someone stops you,ie the police,you can show them the slip,instead of "oh yes ive got permission to shoot here officer",otherwise the police may pay a visit to the farmer,possibly causing him an inconvenience,but certainly causing you an inconvenience,imo it shows responsibility,that youve bothered to get the written permission in the first place,but i suppose its down to the individual which route he takes concerning his,no doubt hard won permission.

 

Whats wrong with my attitude. it's nothing to do with bothering to get written permission chap, it's all to do with complying with the law and the requirements of the firearms acts. Nothing to do with being responsible or hanging on to your permission Had you bothered to read a previous post of mine you would have seen that I said I have never had written permission in over 50 years of shooing. It has never occured to me to do so and I see no reason why I would need to and I do not intend to get something that is of no use to me and serves no purpose.

 

We obviously live in very different worlds because round here you would be thought maize if you insisted on demanding permission in writing, I don't know any farmer in our parish that has done so, I certainly have not.

[foxbuster]

As Apache says there is no legal requirement to have permission to shoot in writing.

 

All this designing ones own forms and providing more information than required by law only serves to keep the paper chase snowball rolling and sets dangerous presidents for future requirements.

 

In time we will have encouraged the police to require so much detail from us that fac applications will become so impossibly complex they will become impossible.

 

I follow the keep it simple rule and supply only details that are required by law. In 50 odd years of shooting I have never had permission in writing.

 

[Dave-G]

Unfortunately some FEO's or FLO's stipulate that written permission is required. Clearly D&C lot are a lot more shooting friendly than many more urban areas. If it's stipulated you can cry as much as you like but thats the end of it or your card is marked at the very least.

 

I think sometimes it's done in the full knowledge that some landowners will baulk at signing one - I have had two permisions agreed and immediately rejected when I asked for it in writing.

[Frenchieboy]

I think that to a great extent the problem of "written permissions" comes down to what area you live in! It can be a bit of a grey area at times and different constabularies have different "interpretations" of this.

When I first got FAC I was told by my FEO that I had to get written permission and, because I was on a "Closed Certificate", I had to send the written permissions in to the firearms office to be processed. They supplied me with an official looking "Land Authorisation Form" which wants so much information just about all they done ask is what you had for breakfast. What I found was that some farmers were a little reluctant to spend what might seem like ages to them filling these forms in, however I got them filled in and sent them to the firearms office where they were procesed and "where needed" the land checks were done.

Now I find that I am in a slightly different position after speaking to my firearms office yesterday to check on a new permission that has a seroius fox problem. After speaking to one of the office staff (Who have always been extremely polite and very helpfull) all I needed to do was to ask if the land had been cleared and if so what was the maximum calibre permitted on that land. As it turns out the land has been cleared for up to .308 so I am fine with my .243. To add to that I was told that while it would be prudent to get written permission to cover myself should anyone ever question my right to be shooting there I need not send the written permission to the firearms office. With this in mind all I need to do now is to sort out my own "basic" permission letter to carry with me whenever I go to any specific piece of land.

My personal thoughts on the matter (Thoughts that not everyone might agree with) are that it is wise, even if you are an "Open Ticket Holder" to have some sort of "basic" written permission to carry with you in case anyone questions your right to be shooting in any location as this could save a lot of time and hastle in the long run. The situation may well be slightly different if you are on "Closed Conditions" and the land has not been cleared for Firearms use so it might well be best to check with your local firearms office! If the land has been cleared for firearms use I believe that there is far too much "red tape" surrounding this "Written Permission" situation and once again it is high time all of the different constabularies started !singing from the same hymn sheet"!