the running man Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Relax, big Dave Cameron and that fella off Location, location, location - well they're Sporting Shooters. Big Dave's running the show for now and that fella with the lisp off the telly, well, people like him. Also, 99% of the House of Lords like a driven day or two and a bit of deer stalking on their estates in Scotland. With no cargo pants or chest rigs in sight it will be fine. Besides, everyone knows that most of the nut nuts went with the handgun ban. Mind you, I still can't believe there won't be any fall out from Cumbria, and as above, the kick that the shooting community receives as a result need not be directly connected to the deed itself. It's not like the government will ban tax dodging taxi drivers with criminal convictions from obtaining SGC/FAC, that would be too obvious. If there's a lamb that has to be slaughtered or offered upto the Gods, my money is on the semi auto .22RF and a tightening of the medical criteria / checks. Time will tell. dont forget the target rifle pimms lot!!! lots of very influential people there my boy. Edited June 6, 2011 by the running man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterzone2 Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Ban .22 semi auto rifles.....I'll find my way to the dole Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Lets find a neutral forum somewhere and put it to the vote... Yep... let's do that Mungler but I think to offer a much more realitic view of the 2 ends of the sport we are talking about, let's use my photos shall we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Ban .22 semi auto rifles.....I'll find my way to the dole Q. dont do that son,the new sgc 9mm and even the marlins can be cycled just as fast! if u need to that is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Masterzone2, the bait was good... I wondered when you would show up I stil have a giggle at >>this<< Did you manage to get yourself a pistol for humane dispatch? Your posts are a 'whose who' of nut nuttishness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Masterzone2, the bait was good... I wondered when you would show up I stil have a giggle at >>this<< Did you manage to get yourself a pistol for humane dispatch? Your posts are a 'whose who' of nut nuttishness i think he may have a crossed wire there,65 k personal protection pistols are in circulation,ex police,northern ireland mp's, deep cover opratives etc....these are issued for self defence to keep in the home,presumably to either warn off or keep at bay a potential aggresser till help arrives,now pp pistol carry licences are around,but are very few and far between.i know a few people who deal in them,i do not know the figures for humane dispacth pistols in the uk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) And >>this<< De ja vu-tastic Edited June 6, 2011 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Chaps let's not get personal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) And >>this<< De ja vu-tastic bloody hell mugler,we just thrashed out a 18 page thread,that is basically a repeat of the jan one!! whats next? .22 vs .17? Edited June 6, 2011 by the running man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Relax, big Dave Cameron and that fella off Location, location, location - well they're Sporting Shooters. Big Dave's running the show for now and that fella with the lisp off the telly, well, people like him. Also, 99% of the House of Lords like a driven day or two and a bit of deer stalking on their estates in Scotland. I've been saying this for ages,it's the only saving grace we have.I've even mentioned it on here but you seem to have selective sight at times. But at the end of the day,if there's another shooting massacre sometime in the future,don't be fooled into thinking the Politicians and Lords will be affected by any ban the Government imposes.They haven't been effected by any of the others! By the way,get yourself to Lowmill Ranges,I think you'll find chest rigs are alive and well.There's even one or two at Sedburgh Pistol and Rifle club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 i think he may have a crossed wire there,65 k personal protection pistols are in circulation,ex police,northern ireland mp's, deep cover opratives etc....these are issued for self defence to keep in the home,presumably to either warn off or keep at bay a potential aggresser till help arrives,now pp pistol carry licences are around,but are very few and far between.i know a few people who deal in them,i do not know the figures for humane dispacth pistols in the uk. Mate where do you get those figures from? The only part of the UK where FACs for personal protection pistols are issued to private individuals (i.e. not police or military) is Northern Ireland, and even then the bar to prove to the PSNI that you are genuinely under threat is set very high. In mainland GB there are virtually zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Mate where do you get those figures from? The only part of the UK where FACs for personal protection pistols are issued to private individuals (i.e. not police or military) is Northern Ireland, and even then the bar to prove to the PSNI that you are genuinely under threat is set very high. In mainland GB there are virtually zero. i get the figures from a chap at fultons bisley,3 section 5 dealers i know who supply them to people for said purpose.,7 section 7.3 shooters i know,3 ex firearms police instructors,my uncle a barrister,and various old school chaps at my club. ure in gloucetershire, we may know each other.......i will say alot of their customers are irish. Edited June 6, 2011 by the running man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 There's even one or two at Sedburgh Pistol and Rifle club. I used to shoot at Sedbergh Pistol and Rifle club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 i get the figures from a chap at fultons bisley,3 section 5 dealers i know who supply them to people for said purpose.,7 section 7.3 shooters i know,3 ex firearms police instructors,my uncle a barrister,and various old school chaps at my club. ure in gloucetershire, we may know each other.......i will say alot of their customers are irish. GB section 5 dealers selling pistols to NI residents with PPW FACs I can believe, though I would dispute your figure of 65K, unless that includes target only pistol FACs of which there are many. In GB there are very few, if any PPW FACs held by private individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 GB section 5 dealers selling pistols to NI residents with PPW FACs I can believe, though I would dispute your figure of 65K, unless that includes target only pistol FACs of which there are many. In GB there are very few, if any PPW FACs held by private individuals. well in the absence of any official documents fact or figures,I can only go on what those people have said. I can't believe the rfd and police would tell lies about something like that,besides who's going to advertise the fact they have them?.....having said that I do know of one person who has a carry licence,(he's mod though) and herd stories of a few people round these parts who have them. But without official figures,we will both be in the dark until enlightend.have a poke round the internet see if u can find an official website giving statistics or numbers of ppw held. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 GB section 5 dealers selling pistols to NI residents with PPW FACs I can believe, though I would dispute your figure of 65K, unless that includes target only pistol FACs of which there are many. In GB there are very few, if any PPW FACs held by private individuals. All I know about this is what I was told a few years ago. Here in London there are a couple of section 5 dealers who sell pistols and I asked who buys them. Loads of people was the reply, pistols aren't banned they were just elevated from section 1 to section 5. Somebody sure enough keeps them in business and its not just the odd despatch pistol now and again. Bit of a mystery really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I used to shoot at Sedbergh Pistol and Rifle club It's still on the go if you fancy it.Warcop pistol and rifle club is no longer though,but I heard recently there were plans to re-open one of the rfile ranges to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 It's still on the go if you fancy it.Warcop pistol and rifle club is no longer though,but I heard recently there were plans to re-open one of the rfile ranges to the public. I've not been since before the new range was built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 All I know about this is what I was told a few years ago. Here in London there are a couple of section 5 dealers who sell pistols and I asked who buys them. Loads of people was the reply, pistols aren't banned they were just elevated from section 1 to section 5. Somebody sure enough keeps them in business and its not just the odd despatch pistol now and again. Bit of a mystery really No mystery at all. There are of course a smattering of humane dispatch pistols owned by vets, stalkers, slaughtermen etc, but they are a drop in the ocean really. There are the section 7 weapons too, but again not that many. What does make business viable for a handful of section 5 dealers is the fact that in a few parts of the British Isles target pistol shooting is not only legal, its thriving. The Isle of Man, Jersey, other Channel Islands and Northern Ireland. Clubs in some of these places have expanded since the ban here, and will happily lodge guns for GB residents who make regular trips to use them. There are local RFDs serving them of course, but these are usually small outfits and get their stock from bigger GB dealers. Added to that are the 44 UK police forces, each of whom have at least some firearms capability with no Home Office requirement to standardize on types. So an instant market for tens of thousands of Glocks, Sigs, H&Ks all supplied by UK dealers. I have met the UK importer for a well known brand of pistol and had an insight into the scale of his business with UK police forces. Let's just say hes doing just fine. It's not just sales, but spares, accessories and maintenance contracts and courses to train police armourers etc. The military also use some Sig P226s, P228s and a few other oddments, again supplied by UK dealers. The UK also has a thriving film industry, there are exemptions under the acts to allow stage, TV and film use of section 5 weapons and there are UK based professional film armourers to cater for this. I've met one who worked on Blackhawk Down, Band of Brothers and many others. Whilst he converts some to blank firers, most start life as live weapons and so he holds a section 5 RFD. Also, any foreign police force or army is free to buy guns in UK provided they are not on the FO export control list and an export licence and EUC has been issued. Many do. Even a private individual is free to buy a pistol here for export provided the right paperwork is in place. There are also private military companies doing close protection training for contractors working in Iraq etc. The list goes on and on. So yes there is work and profit for UK dealers selling not just pistols, but rifles, sub machine guns and even 155mm howitzers (yes really). But coming back to running man's assertion that there are thousands of legally held concealed carry PPWs in the country, unless you include NI, that simply isn't true Discounting police, military, and the occaisional visiting US secret service geezers on Presidential protection detail, no private individual in the UK routinely carries a legally held PPW, the Home Office and ACPO take a really hard line on this, even bodyguards of foreign diplomats (barring the US) are not allowed to carry. There are a lot of urban myths about this. Royalty, politicians and others deemed to be at threat are also not allowed to carry their own PPWs. if the threat warrants it, they are assigned met police diplomatic protection staff. RM, you put in an freedom of information request on this if you want, or ask your MP to pose a parliamentary question, but trust me you'll be wasting your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Yep... let's do that Mungler but I think to offer a much more realitic view of the 2 ends of the sport we are talking about, let's use my photos shall we so one we're looking at a load of blokes playing with guns and the other we are looking at the raw product for a **** load of sausages. I know which I could justify firearms being in private ownership easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hmmm... I like your way of thinking there... Is that troll logic? :-) I doubt most of the population would see things as you do but I'm sure they would love the sausages! Pretty sure that pic of Mung was taken abroad so not even the excuse of shooting for the pot available! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 so one we're looking at a load of blokes playing with guns and the other we are looking at the raw product for a **** load of sausages. I know which I could justify firearms being in private ownership easier You must only deal with logical and sensible people then! I'd love you to have a go at explaining 'needlessly MURDERING a defenceless animal' to the numbskulls in my old office, I tried for years, brought in butchered meat for them the lot, but they couldnt get it into their heads that animals have to die for us to eat meat. Its my experience that the majority of people in cities and towns (and therefore the majority of the population) have this ignorant Disney education of the world around them Therefore, personally id find it far easier to 'justify' target shooting than any kind of stalking etc Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Scholl Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hmmm... I like your way of thinking there... Is that troll logic? :-) I doubt most of the population would see things as you do but I'm sure they would love the sausages! Pretty sure that pic of Mung was taken abroad so not even the excuse of shooting for the pot available! Maybe I should post a picture of my pistols for good measure. This is a thread about pistols after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 No mystery at all. There are of course a smattering of humane dispatch pistols owned by vets, stalkers, slaughtermen etc, but they are a drop in the ocean really. There are the section 7 weapons too, but again not that many. What does make business viable for a handful of section 5 dealers is the fact that in a few parts of the British Isles target pistol shooting is not only legal, its thriving. The Isle of Man, Jersey, other Channel Islands and Northern Ireland. Clubs in some of these places have expanded since the ban here, and will happily lodge guns for GB residents who make regular trips to use them. There are local RFDs serving them of course, but these are usually small outfits and get their stock from bigger GB dealers. Added to that are the 44 UK police forces, each of whom have at least some firearms capability with no Home Office requirement to standardize on types. So an instant market for tens of thousands of Glocks, Sigs, H&Ks all supplied by UK dealers. I have met the UK importer for a well known brand of pistol and had an insight into the scale of his business with UK police forces. Let's just say hes doing just fine. It's not just sales, but spares, accessories and maintenance contracts and courses to train police armourers etc. The military also use some Sig P226s, P228s and a few other oddments, again supplied by UK dealers. The UK also has a thriving film industry, there are exemptions under the acts to allow stage, TV and film use of section 5 weapons and there are UK based professional film armourers to cater for this. I've met one who worked on Blackhawk Down, Band of Brothers and many others. Whilst he converts some to blank firers, most start life as live weapons and so he holds a section 5 RFD. Also, any foreign police force or army is free to buy guns in UK provided they are not on the FO export control list and an export licence and EUC has been issued. Many do. Even a private individual is free to buy a pistol here for export provided the right paperwork is in place. There are also private military companies doing close protection training for contractors working in Iraq etc. The list goes on and on. So yes there is work and profit for UK dealers selling not just pistols, but rifles, sub machine guns and even 155mm howitzers (yes really). But coming back to running man's assertion that there are thousands of legally held concealed carry PPWs in the country, unless you include NI, that simply isn't true Discounting police, military, and the occaisional visiting US secret service geezers on Presidential protection detail, no private individual in the UK routinely carries a legally held PPW, the Home Office and ACPO take a really hard line on this, even bodyguards of foreign diplomats (barring the US) are not allowed to carry. There are a lot of urban myths about this. Royalty, politicians and others deemed to be at threat are also not allowed to carry their own PPWs. if the threat warrants it, they are assigned met police diplomatic protection staff. RM, you put in an freedom of information request on this if you want, or ask your MP to pose a parliamentary question, but trust me you'll be wasting your time. I don't think I will bother,what people have told me is good enough for me,after all theve been me team and club mates for 25 years, I'm not about to disbeleive them to satisfy you.....the 65k may well include ni,when I see one of them again I shall mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 so one we're looking at a load of blokes playing with guns and the other we are looking at the raw product for a **** load of sausages. I know which I could justify firearms being in private ownership easier Bunch of blokes playing with rifles? PLAYING! Is that what you think? What you really think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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