pboro shot Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 sounds like the new boy/girl flexing his muscles size of the land should not really come into it here in the fens a huge estate of 1000s acres could be lethal with footpaths odd house etc where as say you shoot in a valley of only a 100 odd acres with no public footpaths houses etc, witch would be safer in this case size really doesnt matter ,as for the 17hmr/.22 there are hundreds of articles about them feo needs pointing at a few ,,, imo id say tell your freind to join a shooting organisation ,goodluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Dritto Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think he is secretly an "anti" in disguise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Im the chap in question who spoke to the feo. upon explaining the pro's and con's of 17hmr and 22lr he said. "17hmr is safer but if you hit a rabbit in the side, will rip it in two, if you hit it in the head, your taking the head clean off. either way you've destroyed the meat" then "22lr is more prone to ricochets, but is perfect for rabbits. the only problem being you cant moderate a 22lr" good advice hey? Well, well, well! So you can't moderate a .22lr? Let me think about this for one minute! OK, I've had a quick think and guess what - I'm laughing my head off, something that doesn't happen very often where FEOs are concerned! I don't know who told him this or what books he has been reading but I think there are thousands of moderated .22LR shooters and owners on here that would be happy to demonstrate to your FEO that you can in fact very successfully moderate a .22LR! I would also be very interested in what that FEO thinks the 17HMR is in fact suitable for? Thank God I haven't got an FEO like yours with that kind of knowledge about firearms! The mind boggles, does this FEO even know what a rifle looks like? Edited October 11, 2011 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Im the chap in question who spoke to the feo. You need BASC to intercede on your behalf - maybe a dose of knowledge will bring him round. We all accept that arguments with your FEO are avoided so that it wont 'taint' you, the firearms holder/applicant. A third Party intervention is the best way. Simply the best answer, get your shooting org involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradders Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 In Kent where I live I feel that I am quite lucky, the fireams ladies in the office are good as gold although their knowledge is limited they are always helpful and in my experience defer to the licensing manager or the FEO. The best form of attack is to do your research and anticipate what issues/questions may arise. I have had an FAC for 4 years mostly for target shooting, last December I had vermin added but was restricted to 22lr (I applied for 17hmr and 223 at the same time)as I had no "open land" experience although I have been using shotguns for 25+ years. In March I reapplied for the 17hmr and 223 and these were approved but on a closed license (as was the 22lr). A month ago I wrote a letter asking for my licence to be opened, I have several permissions to shoot over and had to keep sending forms off. In my letter I stated my case why I should be granted an open license. The FEO came round for "the talk". He explained what the criteria was for an open license, experience, number of permissions, rounds fired etc. His initial arguement against getting an open was that i had not fired enough rounds. I knew this might arise so I had my answer ready..... His says that he was happy to recommend opening the 22lr and 17hmr but not the 223. I suggested that he recommended all three and allowed the licensing manager to make the decision. He agreed to this and I was granted an open on all of them. My FEO is an experienced shooter, he can be a difficult man at times but he is fair and is open to reasoned arguememt. He showed me the checklist they have to fill out in Kent. Also he has to satify himself that I am a safe and experienced shot and unless you actually accompany someone how can you tell. My point is that if you do your research and construct your arguements in a reasonably way it makes life much easier. As has been stated in other responses you dont want to get on the wrond side of the FEO but the more you deal with them the more confident you become and the easier some of the tough discussion get. I am not defending the inept or "know it all" FEO's but do your reasarch, have the facts and challenge any mistakes or inaccurices in the FEO's knowledge but do it in a constructive and informed way. Bradders..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Well, well, well! So you can't moderate a .22lr? Let me think about this for one minute! OK, I've had a quick think and guess what - I'm laughing my head off, something that doesn't happen very often where FEOs are concerned! I don't know who told him this or what books he has been reading but I think there are thousands of moderated .22LR shooters and owners on here that would be happy to demonstrate to your FEO that you can in fact very successfully moderate a .22LR! I would also be very interested in what that FEO thinks the 17HMR is in fact suitable for? Thank God I haven't got an FEO like yours with that kind of knowledge about firearms! The mind boggles, does this FEO even know what a rifle looks like? Yes, I forgot to put that bit in my OP! Incredible isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I don't understand why so many FAC holders fuss about "upsetting" their FEO. At the end of the day they do a job. They have a written guide regarding how to do that job. If they cannot follow that written guide accurately then tell them! What are they going to do that won't end up in a serious backlash for them when they are challenged. They can't refuse you simply because they don't like you as a judge would laugh them out of court with a big bill to pay on the way out. I've had odd issues with mine but I just write to them or ring them and be sensible. Don't throw insults or get angry, just firmly state the facts. Ask why the decision was made the way they did and on what basis? Generally speaking office staff are a nightmare but the head of department is pretty clued up. I ring mine and say word for word what I have been told by one of the staff, then simply ask "could you please tell me where I may find this advice in the guidelines please because I've read all the relevant sections several times and can find no reference to it?!" Any grief and I would put it rather more firmly that anyone who says that a HMR is no good for Rabbits and that a .22lr can't be moderated isn't giving a difference in opinion, they are quite clearly wrong. Yes that's right - WRONG! There is no arguement because neither of those statements are even close to fact and anyone other than the desk jockey apprentice knows that. As I said there's no need to be rude. Putting a fact forward to them politely isn't rude, it's simply telling them that you know where you stand and that their personal opinion doesn't count for much in law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I don't understand why so many FAC holders fuss about "upsetting" their FEO. At the end of the day they do a job. They have a written guide regarding how to do that job. If they cannot follow that written guide accurately then tell them! What are they going to do that won't end up in a serious backlash for them when they are challenged. They can't refuse you simply because they don't like you as a judge would laugh them out of court with a big bill to pay on the way out. I've had odd issues with mine but I just write to them or ring them and be sensible. Don't throw insults or get angry, just firmly state the facts. Ask why the decision was made the way they did and on what basis? Generally speaking office staff are a nightmare but the head of department is pretty clued up. I ring mine and say word for word what I have been told by one of the staff, then simply ask "could you please tell me where I may find this advice in the guidelines please because I've read all the relevant sections several times and can find no reference to it?!" Any grief and I would put it rather more firmly that anyone who says that a HMR is no good for Rabbits and that a .22lr can't be moderated isn't giving a difference in opinion, they are quite clearly wrong. Yes that's right - WRONG! There is no arguement because neither of those statements are even close to fact and anyone other than the desk jockey apprentice knows that. As I said there's no need to be rude. Putting a fact forward to them politely isn't rude, it's simply telling them that you know where you stand and that their personal opinion doesn't count for much in law. so thinking about my situation where do I find the guideline for applying for the .243 and an open ticket?? as its been 6 weeks now and still waiting for an answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 there are some having problems with the new fire arms manager in notts it seems like hes a anti gun person.revoking licences refusing calerbers and just generly finding eny reason to say no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Brilliant. Well the person in question here is a moron for sure. police need to be objective, someone should point this out. BaSC should help here I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar_uk Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 there are some having problems with the new fire arms manager in notts it seems like hes a anti gun person.revoking licences refusing calerbers and just generly finding eny reason to say no That's not good news, it's 13 weeks and counting now for my FAC application.... I will prepare for it to not go smoothly then ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 so thinking about my situation where do I find the guideline for applying for the .243 and an open ticket?? as its been 6 weeks now and still waiting for an answer Open tickets are hard. The guidelines state that the conditions can be removed once a shooter is deemed experienced enough. That's an open ended decision based on their opinion 6 weeks, well things are often slow and I don't know how to combat that either. I don't think you can! How long have you been shooting large calibres? If you're stepping up to .243 from smaller rounds then it's pretty tough to go for open from the off. If you've had them for a couple of years and have shot quite a bit then perhaps they are dragging their feet more than they need to? I've got a few peoples conditions lifted by saying I'd like them to be able to shoot with me and none of my land is cleared - could anyone you know do the same for you? Generally I put it forward as it being good experience for them to be released from their ties and then accompany a more experienced shot on a wider choice of ground. In the long run doing that will make you safer and better at what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Regarding Notts police, yes, please supply the name of the FEO in question and some examples of exactly what he has done. We need this feedback from the individual BASC members that this applies to, not ,’my mates mate had so and so rejected’ please – BASC members should call or e-mail the BASC firearms team. As to ‘open tickets’ there is no basis for this term in law. Conditions are always applied to firearm certificates. The Home Office guidance reads: …it is recommended that new certificate holders should be limited to land considered suitable by the chief officer. When a chief officer is satisfied that a certificate holder has gained sufficient experience with a particular calibre or class of firearm the less restrictive condition may be considered appropriate…. Land suitable means any land that you have permission to shoot over AND which has already been cleared by the police for your calibre. The less restrictive condition allows you to shoot over land that you have permission to shoot over, and does not require the land to have been previously ‘cleared’ by the police. Remember, even if and when the less restrictive condition is allowed (not usually less then 2-3 years after first grant by the way but I have heard of it being allowed sooner) you must still comply with the other conditions on your certificate. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Open tickets are hard. The guidelines state that the conditions can be removed once a shooter is deemed experienced enough. That's an open ended decision based on their opinion Interesting how everyone in North Yorkshire's on an open ticket from day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Im the chap in question who spoke to the feo. upon explaining the pro's and con's of 17hmr and 22lr he said. "17hmr is safer but if you hit a rabbit in the side, will rip it in two, if you hit it in the head, your taking the head clean off. either way you've destroyed the meat" then "22lr is more prone to ricochets, but is perfect for rabbits. the only problem being you cant moderate a 22lr" good advice hey? my ticket is for the destruction of vermin not the harvesting of meat.feo is spliting hairs (or in this case rabbits)to put you off even applying don't think this is in his job discription but could be the way his force is directing him .just a thought.22lr moderater no comment Edited October 12, 2011 by scutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Interesting how everyone in North Yorkshire's on an open ticket from day one. Again, its amazing how different forces can be, I've been told to foxtrot several times on asking for conditions to be removed, even for S.1 Air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Again, its amazing how different forces can be, I've been told to foxtrot several times on asking for conditions to be removed, even for S.1 Air. yep - me too. its a pain - ive had several requests to shoot pockets of land near my main bit, but as soon as i go down the route of explaining i would need to be getting the police out to look at it - a lot of people dont want the perceived hassle. then when they do - there is a long delay to look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 yep - me too. its a pain - ive had several requests to shoot pockets of land near my main bit, but as soon as i go down the route of explaining i would need to be getting the police out to look at it - a lot of people dont want the perceived hassle. then when they do - there is a long delay to look at it. i to have been turning shootin opertunitys down for the same resion just get told come back when you get it opend up asked to have the condition removed just get told ask agane in 6 month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 How can they be so different between forces, madness. That, in a sentence, sums the whole thing up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Sounds like my feo, my friend put in a variation for a .17hmr,and when the feo called to see him told him that the rounds cost a £1 each,and are 3" long :blink: Said to him,have a multi-shot shotgun instead,and it can be used for clay pigeon shooting. :blink: Same feo wouldn't allow me to have a .22semi-auto on ticket as,in his words"you've already got three 22's,and you can't have any more". I pointed out that my rifles were a .22BOLT ACTION LR, a 22BOLT ACTION WMR, and a 22 BOLT ACTION CENTRE FIRE. Made no difference.And guess what he told me to have instead? A bl**dy multi shot shot gun.AND it can be used for clay pigeon shooting. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 That FEO needs to be sent down teh job centre forthwith... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.