Shooting dogs ........

[coupe312]

A discusion at the rifle range yesterday raised a few conserning points to me.

 

That dogs trespassing can be shot by the land owner for tresspass?

 

i thought if they continue to worry live stock they could shot but only after a warning. i was told i was wrong? am i

 

Even if a route of a footpath runs through the feild the land owner can shoot them if there off the lead.?

 

and finally i know your not ment to shoot with 50yard of a footpath even with a air gun. but i was told if thet was a wall at the other side of the foot path then the wall as a backdrop voids this?:o as the walls possition gives a defind course of the foot path.

 

 

i think the man is talking a load of balls

 

i hope i right cause i think this **** may have just been miss using the law to shoot dogs. ******

 

sorry if this post seam a little off but i had to leave the range last night before my second line cause if not i might have pulled his ******* arms an legs off

 

 

sorry coupe

Edited May 16, 2006 by henry d

[al4x]

I think he was talking total rubbish,

 

Dogs can be shot if they are worrying Livestock.

 

You can shoot on footpaths as long as you don't cause a "nuisance" while doing so, as for the wall thing I'm not sure but on what else he was saying I'd guess it to be balls as well!

[Axe]

I am not sure about the dogs bit, I seem to remember a similar post on this a while back. It might be worth doing a search. I would imagine that only after a repeat offence and warning issued would anyone have grounds to do something like this. Don't forget dogs are licensed.

 

As for the foot path, total rubbish. As mentioned, you are entitled to shoot from, against and accross a footpath, as long as by doing so you do not prevent the use of, harm, or startle a member of the public. I don't know what he was trying to emphasise with the wall, but its total nonsense. If anything, I would go as far to say this guy sounds rather ignorant.

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 4, 2009 by JohnGalway

[coupe312]

i just think he a total ***, the lack of respect for someone close compainions is out of order. thought even about going to the boys in blue after he mentioned dogs that he had shot and the crule way he had done it for nothing than common trespass.( with shot gun and .22lr.)

 

I finished by saying the next time the sheep get free and are in my mother in laws garden i'l kill them( even though i have a closed ticket), his responce was " there my livleyhood and you'd be up it court". i understand farmer have a lot to put up with and people taking the **** but ....

 

 

i have learnt to deal my my temper very well, but last night the mist was comming in ***** ***** like that give shooting as a sport a bad name. :o

 

i was good walked away. i might do a bit of background work and see if he has got a ticket to shoot other than targets

Edited May 16, 2006 by henry d

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 4, 2009 by JohnGalway

[saz]

Under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 the owner or person incharge of the dog at the time will be guilty of an offence if it worries livestock on agricultural land. The dog must have actually been attacking or chasing livestock in such a violent way that it could reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering or, in the case of females, abortion or the loss or diminution of their produce.

 

The definition of 'livestock' includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses and poultry. Game birds are not included.

 

but there is a defence for shooting a dog worrying livestock under the Animals Act 1971. they can only shoot the dog in extreme cases if the dog has caused injury or distress and only after giving a warning.

the farmer would have to prove: -

 

that they acted to protect the livestock and that the protection of livestock act allowed there actions and that the livestock belonged to them. they must also prove that there was no other way for example preveting the worry to the live stock.

 

basically they can only shoot the og in extreme cases!!

[coupe312]

AFAIK, there are no footpaths etc going through our land so I wont comment on footpaths but anyone on there with or without a dog shouldn't be as they've no right to be (just as I've no right to have a stroll through someones back garden whenever I feel like it). Private property and dogs will be shot are pretty easy signs to understand. You mention about dogs being peoples companions and that's entirely true, I agree with you as I've 2 of my own. However if people trespass knowing the consequences of what might happen they really don't value their companions much, the same goes if the dog is allowed wander around anywhere it likes day or night. After all what we're talking about is a dog, which going right down to it still has natural hunting urges, they can do considerable damage if they get into packs (even 2 dogs) especially at night. I've seen firsthand what they'll do to sheep. Rip their guts out, drown them in streams and rivers. And they're only the ones they catch, when ewes are in lamb if dogs get into the field you can be dead sure there will be many abortions simply from the stress caused. Ok put aside the money toll that damage represents. Much has been made, rightly, on this and other sites of shooting your quarry with the proper calibre/range etc to ensure a clean kill. It's often commented upon how horrible it is to wound an animal and have it escape. Now think of the farmer who goes out to check his stock one morning to meet the kind of carnage dogs can inflict. So there is also an heavy emotional burden placed upon him too (putting down sheep beyond saving, seeing the others in great pain as well as caring them during their recovery period, being left with motherless lambs etc) as well as a financial one. The thing that I've learned from years of this expierence is that two things will happen when you confront the dogs owner. You'll get the stock answer "my dog would never do that", and you also get to live with the fact that if you dont shoot that dog when you've the chance he'll be back, makes it really easy to sleep at night. I'm not defending this guy you're talking about as I know nothing about him. All I'm trying to do is put across one sheep farmers views on uncontrolled dogs and their irresponsible owners. I honestly don't think you'd find too many other sheep farmers who wouldn't shoot in those circumstances (uncontrolled dogs on their land).

 

John

 

i understand that you have all the addition stresses and private land is that private, however one dog walking under a fence not worrying live stock does not mean it should be shot a definatly in a unsuitable manner. i agree a savage dog serouse causing problem to live stock should be suitable delt with.

 

but laff and joke about it is wrong, everything desevse respect, as as someone with live stock can you honestly say non have ever got free?

 

so in that case they should be shot cause they are not where they should be? i have a freind who grows turf. a few field down some cattle got out and wecked a small section of very expensive turf... should they be shot? that cost him alot of money and lost contracts?

 

i agree with what you are saying to protect your own and all that, but a harmless mistake is exsactly that! its not just something else on your vermin list.

 

2ndly putting a sighn on you house saying danger dogs about is fine, someone break in a dog attacks them... your in the ****. just because a sigh is up it cann't prove anything.

 

look at health and saftey laws a sighn must be show but addition precorsion must be in place incase this is missed.

 

 

 

( sorry henry for the bad vocab.... was on one.)

[MC]

OH DEAR OH DEAR,

 

Not this subject again, Johngalway you weren't involved in this discussion on the BBS were you? You cannot shoot a dog just because it is on your land. You can shoot a dog if it is worrying livestock and CANNOT be controlled by any other means.

 

On the BBS they were discussing what caliber rifle to use and suitable ammunition. That is purely irresponsioble and they are obviously setting out and planning to shoot a dog.

 

The fact that a dog has wandered under a fence or through a hedge doesn't make it a legitimate target. If you think it does then please do the shooting community a favour and go and hand your guns in.

 

If a footbath runs through a field then dogs should be on a lead, but then a farmers field should have boundaries.

 

As Coupe says does that mean that if a farmers sheep get loose and end up in his garden they can be shot?

 

As I posted on the BBS if anyone shot my dog because it had wandered on to a field they wouldn't have to worry about giving up shooting because they would not be able to shoot again when I had finished with them.

 

That said I hope I would never find myself in a situation where my dog was worrying livestock as I consider myself to be a responsible dog owner.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Lord Geordie]

I think if the dog were on it's own i would call it over first. If it came over with no trouble i would try to walk it back to the farmhouse and ring for a warden to collect and ask THEM to warn the owner if they collect about the impications IF found without owner on your land again.

 

IF it is attacking sheep or other livestock then sorry but livestock takes president and MUST be protected.

 

OR if the dog was aggresive toward me when confronted again IF no owner were about then i would also consider the ultimate force.

 

But for general dogs (even without owner) who come when called i think it's a bit OTT and in those circumstances i would opt for leniency

 

I also beleive you need a Vermin Variation on your FAC to shoot Dogs under those circumstances

 

JMHO

 

LG

[SNAKEBITE]

Don't forget dogs are licensed.

 

Not any more. The licence used to cost 37 1/2 pence and was abolished in 198?

 

I know my dog would chase livestock, not do any harm but just want to play. Therefore I do not let him off around livestock. Simple isn't it.

[Natures_son]

My honest opinion is if dogs are worrying livestock even if it is chasing to "play" with them. I would not hesitate to put a bullet in it. Simple fact if your dog isnt broken to stock you keep it on a lead.

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 4, 2009 by JohnGalway

[Ferret Master]

Hi,

 

I agree with Jordan. We have been on the recieving end of dog attacks several times in a few weeks with the same dog involved. It lived down the lane and belonged to a Spanish family who had just moved to the country and brought the mongrel with them. Whenever they opened the gates or it jumped their wall it would tear down the lane and look for some of our poultry to kill. The first couple of times it escaped I took it back but it got into the garden one day and killed our cockerel who had flown out the main pen and a couple of weeks later killed and fatally wounded all our ducklings. We contacted the police and they said we were intitled to shoot it if it came on out land again so we spoke to the people and I believe that the dog warden did as well and they installed electric fencing around their garden to prevent the damned thing thing getting out again.

 

FM

[coupe312]

i have open a big can of worms but the whole argument is simply you can't just point a gun at a dog and kill it.

as i say i understand you veiw of killing a dog to protect you sheep. then equal the same rule should apply to cattle. if the escape and do damage they should be shot!

 

my whole argument is

 

it should be the very last resort, not these a dog on my land it unwelcome bang.

 

to appy the same thing cats should get it then, so should door to door sales men.

( used to have a dog that ate cats)

 

i agree if its harming livestock then fair enough, but as LG say other options should be tried first.

 

i equal i think more responcabilty should be put on dog owners to look after there dogs and train then correctly check the dog section i'm always asking for more help with my dog. but acciedent do happen and even the best trained dog and owner do occationally have problems

 

killing a dog is not easy i have had to do it after 17 stitches in my arm, pulling a american pitbull of the next doors kid. the little girl got away with 3

 

 

 

 

so

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 4, 2009 by JohnGalway

[farmers son]

i always thought you were entitled to shoot a dog if it was in the confined boundary of a field i.e inside the fence? and threatening to cause damage to livestock. alot of people fail to remember that the dog doesn't have to be actually mauling an animal to cause damage by simply just chasing sheep for example can cause them to abort. when we used to have sheep a dog managed to get in the feild with a flock of sheep in lamb and didn't actually worry any to death but managed to get the sheep to break their way out of the field and every single sheep aborted and end up around 3 miles away from the farm. when i was younger i had a pet lamb/sheep which i would feed every morning, until i found her dead with puncture wounds all over almost bald. she had been savaged by 3 dogs whos owners felt it ok to allow their dogs to run around the village at night

coupe you mention a range which 1? i live not that far from you and wouldn't mind joining 1

 

FS

[henry d]

Found this....

 

The law states:

 

1) Where a dog has attacked or killed livestock the court may make an order directing the dog to be destroyed.

 

2) Where it appears to a court that a dog has chased livestock in such a way as might reasonably have been expected to cause injury or suffering to the livestock or to result in financial loss to the owner of livestock the court may:

 

a) make an order directing the dog to be destroyed; or

make an order directing the dog to be kept confined in a building, shed or other enclosure from which it cannot escape.

 

A court must be satisfied of a dog's involvement beyond reasonable doubt before an order for destruction or confinement may be passed.

 

 

Farmers' rights

A farmer is legally protected in shooting a dog in his vicinity if the animal is not under the charge of a person and is worrying, about to worry or had worried livestock and if he has no practical means of identifying the owner or there is no means of preventing or ending the worrying.

 

 

 

Alot of info here.... http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/dogs.htm

[Frank]

as i say i understand you veiw of killing a dog to protect you sheep. then equal the same rule should apply to cattle. if the escape and do damage they should be shot!

 

No. Cattle can be fenced off securely after the damage has been done and they wont lust for more damage.

That is totally different with dogs that have killed sheep. They will go back and kill, again and again.

I have seen what John has seen and i can tell you now, its not a pretty site, HORRIFIC is the way i would word it.

 

Over here in Ireland, the law concerning the shooting of stray dogs on farm land is diffrent then from in the UK.

I have been called out on several occassions to shoot dogs that have worried sheep and also killed them.

I have also been called by the police, to shoot dogs that are in a feild with sheep and have not started killing, but have just been in the feild with no owner.

 

Dont forget, a dog is a decent of a wolf and a hunter. So please, all dog owners, keep your dogs under proper control.

[digger]

*** ? so in your eyes coupe a cow that leaves its field is doing as much damage as a dog causing sheep to abort or drowning them ? ok,tell you what,next time i see a dog worrying sheep on the farm i shoot over then i will shoot it.next time you see a stray cow you do the same.hope you have good legal advice.

jesus wept

[coupe312]

*** ? so in your eyes coupe a cow that leaves its field is doing as much damage as a dog causing sheep to abort or drowning them ? ok,tell you what,next time i see a dog worrying sheep on the farm i shoot over then i will shoot it.next time you see a stray cow you do the same.hope you have good legal advice.

jesus wept

before you jump down my neck i recomend reading all my comments first

 

if you read the whole post i refered to livestock on my mate turfing land. causing damage to his income... same as a dog would be doing to sheep.( ie the farmers income).

and by the way me a stevo had fix the fences sevral times anf told the farmer....and no livestock was shot before anyone asks. did the livestock get back in again... yes is it cause the grass is better... i don't know

 

if you read the first post i said that i could understand if a dog was damaging /attacking livestock. what i was getting to was dog when off the lead slipping into the field, not even with life stock in.

 

Cats kill my koi carp that costs me hundreds to replace...so i can kill them? no. i do my best to stop them or just scare away.

 

i'm not say shooting a dog is wrong what i'm getting to is the way its done. just shooting without any attemp to stop it is wrong. and the bloke making it out like its some big man thing to shoot a dog for no reason....sad *******

 

legal advice is easy my mate missis is a wig wearer.

[Cranfield]

"Farmers' rights

A farmer is legally protected in shooting a dog in his vicinity if the animal is not under the charge of a person and is worrying, about to worry or had worried livestock and if he has no practical means of identifying the owner or there is no means of preventing or ending the worrying. "

 

That is the sole answer to this question.

 

Comparisons with cattle breaking into a field, damaging turf and eating grass, as against dogs attacking, maiming and killing sheep and lambs, is laughable.

[Frank]

"Farmers' rights

A farmer is legally protected in shooting a dog in his vicinity if the animal is not under the charge of a person and is worrying, about to worry or had worried livestock and if he has no practical means of identifying the owner or there is no means of preventing or ending the worrying. "

 

That is the sole answer to this question.

 

Comparisons with cattle breaking into a field, damaging turf and eating grass, as against dogs attacking, maiming and killing sheep and lambs, is laughable.

 

Nuff said.

[digger]

ok,so what you are saying is the cattle caused damage even though the fence was repaired.he has recourse through the courts to get compensation.

comparing damage to a turf farm to that of ewes aborting or lambs dying of shock holds no water at all.its bloody grass v animals scared to death.i know its your mates living but did the damaged turf reduce him to tears ? did he see not only current value but future too dropping away from him ? nope,he lost an area of turf that he can reseed,not ten lambs and three ewes.

not wanting to jump down your throat,just dont see it your way

[flytie]

"Farmers' rights

A farmer is legally protected in shooting a dog in his vicinity if the animal is not under the charge of a person and is worrying, about to worry or had worried livestock and if he has no practical means of identifying the owner or there is no means of preventing or ending the worrying. "

 

That is the sole answer to this question.

 

Comparisons with cattle breaking into a field, damaging turf and eating grass, as against dogs attacking, maiming and killing sheep and lambs, is laughable.

I agree wholeheatedly Cranfield I used to work on a farm and have had to shoot dogs, not pleasant! It's the owners fault!!!!!!!!!! But saying damaging turf is equivalent to the suffering endured by sheep chased, made to abort and killed is not just laughable it's crazy

 

Ft