How far do your deer run?

[Dekers]

Ok, this is a bit of a follow on from ............... 243 and Deer (Guns & Equipment) ...but it is mentioned a lot!

 

I hear PERFECT SHOT and had to chase if for miles all the time.

 

Can someone please tell me what this is all about, the furthest I have ever had to chase a deer of any sort was about 20 yards.

 

Mine almost always drop on the spot, or leap in the air and fall in a heap.

 

So how come, mine fall down and everyone else has to chase theirs round the countryside.

 

Did you use the wrong ammo, was the shot not as perfect as everyone suggests it was, or was the animal pumped up for whatever reason, etc, etc!

 

The words Perfect shot and chasing deer don't sit well together for me!

 

Edited November 6, 2011 by Dekers

[Frenchieboy]

I sometimes wonder that myself Dekers old mate! Sp many post tell of taking the "perfect shot" but still having to use a dog to track the deer with and finding it maybe 50 yards away! Surely if the shot is that "perfect" the deer will go down in a very short space of time and distance!

I am not anywhere as experienced as some members on here (And would not dream of claiming to be) so maybe I am not in a position to justifyable comment or critisise. So far I only have 2 Roe Bucks, 3 Reds and 9 Fallows to my credit - And in all fairness the Fallows were on a cull so they were all head shot at fairly close range (Out to about 120 yards) so they don't really count even though they dropped on the spot! However, the ones that I have stalked have dropped within a few short yards - The Roe Buchs both fell within about 10 yards of where they were shot and the Reds about the same. These were all shot with my .243 using Home Loads out to about 135 yards taking "heart and lung" shots!

Maybe someone could give a reason why we hear of some of these "Perfectly shot deer" running so far - or is there no such thing as "The perfect shot"?

[Ackley]

Ok, this is a bit of a follow on from ............... 243 and Deer (Guns & Equipment) ...but it is mentioned a lot!

 

I hear PERFECT SHOT and had to chase if for miles all the time.

 

Can someone please tell me what this is all about, the furthest I have ever had to chase a deer of any sort was about 20 yards.

 

Mine almost always drop on the spot, or leap in the air and fall in a heap.

 

So how come, mine fall down and everyone else has to chase theirs round the countryside.

 

Did you use the wrong ammo, was the shot not as perfect as everyone suggests it was, or was the animal pumped up for whatever reason, etc, etc!

 

The words Perfect shot and chasing deer don't sit well together for me!

 

 

obvioulsy you have not shot many deer

[sako751sg]

I sometimes wonder that myself Dekers old mate! Sp many post tell of taking the "perfect shot" but still having to use a dog to track the deer with and finding it maybe 50 yards away! Surely if the shot is that "perfect" the deer will go down in a very short space of time and distance!

I am not anywhere as experienced as some members on here (And would not dream of claiming to be) so maybe I am not in a position to justifyable comment or critisise. So far I only have 2 Roe Bucks, 3 Reds and 9 Fallows to my credit - And in all fairness the Fallows were on a cull so they were all head shot at fairly close range (Out to about 120 yards) so they don't really count even though they dropped on the spot! However, the ones that I have stalked have dropped within a few short yards - The Roe Buchs both fell within about 10 yards of where they were shot and the Reds about the same. These were all shot with my .243 using Home Loads out to about 135 yards taking "heart and lung" shots!

Maybe someone could give a reason why we hear of some of these "Perfectly shot deer" running so far - or is there no such thing as "The perfect shot"?

 

Frenchie,your pretty far off the mark for once fella.

The perfect shot takes many guises,and really is only perfect if the bullet goes where you aim.For me,if i aim at the heart and lungs,ie the engine room,and the bullet goes there then if the the deer runs 20,40 or 60 yards it matters not as it is still the perfect shot.I have had roe run about 80 yards with a heart shot,and i dont go "chasing" deer as the OP suggests happens but instead i follow the shot up which sometimes is very testing especially in heavy cover and you are trying to follow a blood trail.Dont get drawn into the deer must drop on the spot brigade,because they havent had enough experience to realise its not going to happen all the time.With the .243,prior to reloading i had many more follow ups using SP,but with the Vmax a higher percentage drop on the spot.

 

obvioulsy you have not shot many deer

 

 

[Ackley]

Frenchie,your pretty far off the mark for once fella.

The perfect shot takes many guises,and really is only perfect if the bullet goes where you aim.For me,if i aim at the heart and lungs,ie the engine room,and the bullet goes there then if the the deer runs 20,40 or 60 yards it matters not as it is still the perfect shot.I have had roe run about 80 yards with a heart shot,and i dont go "chasing" deer as the OP suggests happens but instead i follow the shot up which sometimes is very testing especially in heavy cover and you are trying to follow a blood trail.Dont get drawn into the deer must drop on the spot brigade,because they havent had enough experience to realise its not going to happen all the time.With the .243,prior to reloading i had many more follow ups using SP,but with the Vmax a higher percentage drop on the spot.

 

 

 

 

 

well said I can tell by your reply you are an experienced deer hunter,unlike the OP "chasing deer" christ thats the first thing you learn not to do

[Dekers]

Frenchie,your pretty far off the mark for once fella.

The perfect shot takes many guises,and really is only perfect if the bullet goes where you aim.For me,if i aim at the heart and lungs,ie the engine room,and the bullet goes there then if the the deer runs 20,40 or 60 yards it matters not as it is still the perfect shot.I have had roe run about 80 yards with a heart shot,and i dont go "chasing" deer as the OP suggests happens but instead i follow the shot up which sometimes is very testing especially in heavy cover and you are trying to follow a blood trail.Dont get drawn into the deer must drop on the spot brigade,because they havent had enough experience to realise its not going to happen all the time.With the .243,prior to reloading i had many more follow ups using SP,but with the Vmax a higher percentage drop on the spot.

 

 

 

 

 

OK, Perfect shoot equals dead deer at your feet, not putting a bullet somewhere you want it to go that doesn't stop it, why would you want to aim anywhere you were expecting to chase it 20-40-60-80 yards?

 

So, by your own admission you aimed in the wrong place and were using the wrong ammo, but it was the perfect shot!

 

The answer to this is simple, your definition of a PERFECT SHOT is different to mine!

 

[Bazooka Joe]

Agree with Sako....I'd put it down to an Adrenalin Rush, as said it could be a prefect Heart Shot, you just have to let it take it's course.

[sako751sg]

Please move this again,preferably to the jokes section this time.

[gixer1]

Unlike others I'm not going to dig at people saying they have or haven't shot x amount of deer ...

 

In my experience I have seen them drop on the spot and on other occasions run 150 yards...all with shots in approx the same place....

 

Most of the "run" thing is adrenaline - the info I base this on is I have had deer run towards me after a shot so they have not been startled before the shot was taken.... Also seen a roe buck run 50 yards square into a 3ft thick tree :blink: it was obviously running on adrenaline not its usual guidance system.

 

I also once shot a buck and he jumped a dry stone dyke, ran 10 yards and fell off a 10ft bank/hill into some ferns, the blood trail was one of the most obvious I've seen and the shot was good but he just had enough adrenaline/lung capacity to get him there.

 

It's kinda like if you have ever seriously hurt yourself I guess, I was in a motorcycle accident 15 years ago and I hit a van, after I'd hit the road I stood up and took about three steps before I keeled over (according to eye witnesses!) if you had seen my mangled knee you'd have wondered how but I guess it was my adrenaline trying to get me away from danger.

 

Regards,

Gixer

Edited November 6, 2011 by gixer1

[Frenchieboy]

I am more than happy to be corrected and "educated" by someone as experienced as Sako751sg.

I did say that I did not have the experience that some of you guys have and I am always happy to learn from what you "more experienced guys" have to say and advise!

I hope I haven't started another "raging debate" by asking if there is such a thing as "The perfect shot"?

[Dekers]

Please move this again,preferably to the jokes section this time.

 

 

I'm looking for some answers here not dumb comments, you said yourself you got better results when you changed ammo.

 

Perfect shot and chasing deer is quoted all the time, yes, deer can and do run a FEW yards sometimes, as can/does any quarry.

 

I'm struggling with the distance people suggest they chase deer after a PERFECT shot, perfect by way of a definition does not work for me if the shot just goes where you want it, the question is why didn't it stop it, as I asked in my original post.

 

I have never seen any Deer run 20-40-60-80 yards PERFECTLY SHOT with a .243 in it's head, so what is this Perfect shot business?

Edited November 6, 2011 by Dekers

[sako751sg]

OK, Perfect shoot equals dead deer at your feet, not putting a bullet somewhere you want it to go that doesn't stop it, why would you want to aim anywhere you were expecting to chase it 20-40-60-80 yards?So, by your own admission you aimed in the wrong place and were using the wrong ammo, but it was the perfect shot! The answer to this is simple, your definition of a PERFECT SHOT is different to mine!

 

 

 

I'm looking for some answers here not dumb comments, you said yourself you got better results when you changed ammo.

 

Perfect shot and chasing deer is quoted all the time, yes, deer can and do run a FEW yards sometimes, as can/does any any quarry.

 

I'm struggling with the distance people suggest they chase deer after a PERFECT shot, perfect by way of a definition does not work for me if the shot just goes where you want it, the question is why didn't it stop it, as I asked in my original post.

 

I have never seen any Deer run 20-40-60-80 yards PERFECTLY SHOT with a .243 in it's head, so what is this Perfect shot business?

 

Pot kettle and black springs to mind.If you dont want dumb comments,stop posting them.For that reason,im oot.

Edited November 6, 2011 by sako751sg

[Bazooka Joe]

I have never seen any Deer run 20-40-60-80 yards PERFECTLY SHOT with a .243 in it's head,

 

 

Obviously it depends where you shoot them....do you head shoot all your deer then..?

Edited November 6, 2011 by Bazooka Joe

[Ackley]

Unlike others I'm not going to dig at people saying they have or haven't shot x amount of deer ...

 

In my experience I have seen them drop on the spot and on other occasions run 150 yards...all with shots in approx the same place....

 

Most of the "run" thing is adrenaline - the info I base this on is I have had deer run towards me after a shot so they have not been startled before the shot was taken.... Also seen a roe buck run 50 yards square into a 3ft thick tree :blink: it was obviously running on adrenaline not its usual guidance system.

 

I also once shot a buck and he jumped a dry stone dyke, ran 10 yards and fell off a 10ft bank/hill into some ferns, the blood trail was one of the most obvious I've seen and the shot was good but he just had enough adrenaline/lung capacity to get him there.

 

It's kinda like if you have ever seriously hurt yourself I guess, I was in a motorcycle accident 15 years ago and I hit a van, after I'd hit the road I stood up and took about three steps before I keeled over (according to eye witnesses!) if you had seen my mangled knee you'd have wondered how but I guess it was my adrenaline trying to get me away from danger.

 

Regards,

Gixer

 

I have to agree with your entire post,apart from the first sentance as isnt it obvious the "Ive never had a runner" or "Ive never missed a beast" bigade hasnt shot many

whilst were on about "experiences" of running deer,I will sahre one which was a perfect shot (if there is such a thing)

hunting Sika in Ireland,stalking up a hedge row watching a5 Sika in a grass field,craled in on my belly to a reasonable distance of about 150 yards,put the bullet smack in the engine room (6.5x55 using 120gr SST)the berast showd all the signs of a perfect hart/ling shot then ran 80 yuards to a fenced,jumped over it and ran into a thick wood.

I sat and watched,took a cigar out my pocket lit it and sat 20 mins enjoying the smoke,then took a staedy walk over wher I had marked the beast jumping the fence,low and behold a nice blood trial another 50 yards into the wood and 1 dead fully bled out Sika,after inspect of the heart/lungs the bullet had cleanly taken half of the heart out.

how it ran so far is a mystery.but at the end of the day the result was the same 1 dead Sika

shoot enough deer of any speices and you will get runners,thats a fact

I now use a large caliber with a bonded bullet,it helps cut down on the runners

[Dekers]

Obviously it depends where you shoot them....do you head shoot all your deer then..?

 

 

Nope, and I'm not suggesting I do, but if that stops them isn't that a better definition of PERFECT SHOT, rather than a shot in the General heart area which obviously isn't as Perfect as a head shot if they run off!

 

Like I said upront......

 

The words Perfect shot and chasing deer don't sit well together for me!

 

[Dekers]

Pot kettle and black springs to mind.If you dont want dumb comments,stop posting them.For that reason,im oot.

 

 

sako, you don't seem to get it, I don't care if your definition of perfect shot is to put a hole in a Deers **** with the wrong ammo and then chase it round the countryside, that is NOT my definition of a PERFECT SHOT.

 

The deer drops with a PERFECT SHOT, if it doesn't it wasn't the perfect shot for some reason, and I go back to my original post.......

 

Did you use the wrong ammo, was the shot not as perfect as everyone suggests it was, or was the animal pumped up for whatever reason, etc, etc!

 

[Cushies]

I shot a doe yesterday morning, she wasn't pumped up(she was grazing), using the right ammo(75 grn v-max), 180yrds so an engine room shot, she took off for about 40yrds and dropped. The shot destroyed the top of the heart and arteries and also damaged the lungs. Shot placement was where i wanted so for me the perfect shot.

[Scully]

I mainly shoot foxes with my .243Win;the only deer I have shot are Roe,and I've only shot 5 of these(soon to be quite a few more as landowner wants the numbers thinning out;spotted 7 last time we were out)but none of them have been 'runners' but I couldn't tell you why.The furthest one I shot was 210 yards with my old 700 using 100grn Winchester Core-Lokt if memory serves,and it dropped on the spot.Hit it just above the shoulder joint,completely missed the heart and exited leaving a hole no bigger than my thumb end.We also found a very small exit hole high up on its neck for some reason,but not on the exit side if that makes sense.

Mates .308 destroyed the lungs of the last one we shot,that didn't even jump.

Have changed rifles now and gone down to 75grns,so will see if that makes a difference.

[Harnser]

I think that the perfect shot is the one when you are taking a deer home after a stalk . Being an advocate of the .308 and the .270 I dont normally have to follow up on deer after the shot . Again I dont shoot at deer that are further away than 200 yards ,my average shot is taken at about 80 yards . All the longer shots are taken rested or off the bi-pod . Shot placement is crucial and the the closer shots I prefer to go for the base of the neck . I think that any deer killed with in 100 yards of the spot of being hit is a perfect and humane kill .

 

Harnser .

[njc110381]

This is something I've put a lot of thought into, but can't really find an answer to it. What is a perfect shot exactly?

 

I've heart shot Deer and they've fallen over like someone has just switched out the lights. I've also heart shot Deer with the same bullet in the same place give or take maybe half an inch and they've ran 100 yards. It seems if they know you are there they will usually run a bit more, but then sometimes they fall over when pumped up or run off when they had no idea you were there?

 

Is a perfect shot a neck shot? I've never had a neck shot Deer run, but then that's not a shot I take often as I don't really like it. Yes it puts them down but at the same time if you make a mistake it can also mean they can run well off of your ground to be lost, only to die days or even weeks later. To me even if that shot works it's not perfect as there is a higher risk involved and it should only be taken if your options are very limited.

 

The calibre debate is another good one. I've downed Deer on the spot with a .22 Hornet before now yet on other occasions I've had them run after a hit from what could be considered a seriously over powered round. Whilst I have little experience with it, the .375H&H shot I took on a Canadian Whitetail was noting short of unbelievable. I hit the heart - well actually I demolished the whole front end of the Deer, yet it still ran apprximately 100 yards. If you had seen the internal damage that shot caused you'd find it hard to believe that little fella even had the energy to take a step let alone run?

 

To me the perfect shot is the one that hits where you want to hit, assuming that is the right place. If you take out the heart that's a perfect shot - if the Deer runs that's entirely out of your hands as you've done the best you can.

 

As much as man thinks he's the superior being, he still can't have 100% control over nature.

[Redgum]

Ideally head and neck shots drop deer on the spot, most heart shots do but not always. We have to remember why we heart/lung shoot, 1)because the head can move much quicker than the bulk of the body and secondly because it allows for marginal error, which due to the nature of shooting and the environment in which we hunt deer.

Who knows how they manage to run with no heart and why some do and some don't, maybe its how wired they are or how much rest they have had before shooting, how much food they have in their stomach etc. But some deer can run along way, I remember helping someone trying to find a muntie on a cull, I was starting to think it had been shot in the gut. We found it 70yds ish away in heavy cover stone dead, perfect shot with a 100gr 243, it had run this far with no heart and virtually no lungs. Its the way they are made and their defence against their natural enemies I quess.

[Ackley]

This is something I've put a lot of thought into, but can't really find an answer to it. What is a perfect shot exactly?

 

I've heart shot Deer and they've fallen over like someone has just switched out the lights. I've also heart shot Deer with the same bullet in the same place give or take maybe half an inch and they've ran 100 yards. It seems if they know you are there they will usually run a bit more, but then sometimes they fall over when pumped up or run off when they had no idea you were there?

 

Is a perfect shot a neck shot? I've never had a neck shot Deer run, but then that's not a shot I take often as I don't really like it. Yes it puts them down but at the same time if you make a mistake it can also mean they can run well off of your ground to be lost, only to die days or even weeks later. To me even if that shot works it's not perfect as there is a higher risk involved and it should only be taken if your options are very limited.

 

The calibre debate is another good one. I've downed Deer on the spot with a .22 Hornet before now yet on other occasions I've had them run after a hit from what could be considered a seriously over powered round. Whilst I have little experience with it, the .375H&H shot I took on a Canadian Whitetail was noting short of unbelievable. I hit the heart - well actually I demolished the whole front end of the Deer, yet it still ran apprximately 100 yards. If you had seen the internal damage that shot caused you'd find it hard to believe that little fella even had the energy to take a step let alone run?

 

To me the perfect shot is the one that hits where you want to hit, assuming that is the right place. If you take out the heart that's a perfect shot - if the Deer runs that's entirely out of your hands as you've done the best you can.

 

As much as man thinks he's the superior being, he still can't have 100% control over nature.

 

you have shot deer with a 22 hornet,is that legal

[Clydebuilt]

I think there are many variables to consider and shot placement can be critical depending on the ground at the time.

 

Your "perfect shot" may entail "pinning" a heavy Sika stag if your on a woodland edge, they are stubborn and hard beasts, take out the shoulder and drop the beast to prevent losing it in thick cover.

 

You may be within distance to neck shoot a fallow if your up a highsea and within reasonable distance.

 

On the open hill for Reds, I generally take boiler room shots, but if they were near a woodland then it's a re-think

 

Roe in woodland depends on distance, heavy cover, but I prefer a blood trail should it be required to follow up.

 

I think also that game dealers asking for neck shot beasts is wrong, to me, it's all dependant on what you see, where you are and knowing your limitations, a shot put under pressure by someone elses requirements shouldn't be taken

 

I tend to favour the .270 for most of my stalking nowadays but the calibre debate is something else entirely.

 

Shoot with confidence and practice and you'll maybe get closer to the "perfect shot"

 

.

[kent]

Well one needs to understand firstly what kills a deer. A heart lung shot kills through starving the brain of oxygen, destuction of the organs does not create instantanious death it is however humane and the beast will be dead in a matter of seconds and is in a state of shock. Indeed many are dead when still running, i have seen them run straight into large easily seen objects like gates and trees and out in the open fields you can watch as the brain dies through oxygen starvation, the legs start to go all bandy flailing everywere then they just plain slump. 150 yds is about the furthest i have ever heard of a dead deer run i suppose 20-40 is normal.

Brain shots are far from the most humane as partial destuction can leave the deer alive but paralised and its important to realise that this shot has the highest chance of wounding of any due to the brains tiny size within a big scull and the head being the most mobile part of the deer its easy to miss through no tecnical fault in marksmanship, quite simply the deer moved as the shot was released. This shot is mainly favoured by those shooting tame or semi tame park deer for the venison and as far as i am conserned this is not a sportsmans way. They often spring about with wild nerve actions which onlookers will find very distastfull.

 

High neck shots drop the deer very well on the spot and the nerves fail to drive, again the chance of wounding through quarry movement is too large. Like brain shots woundings are horrific either the jaw is shot off or the aspophogus is damaged leading to a ver poor death and also interestingly the lowest rates of recovery using trained tracking dogs lower even than front leg woundings!

Low neck shots and high shoulder pinning drop deer well on the spot and offer a larger target that is far less mobile than the upper neck, though unless the main artery is severed then the deer will often have a blink responce when approched (ie it is still alive) If the spine is only nicked the deer will still drop perfectly to shot but will often get up as approached and run like heck often leading to non-recovery or a long search.

 

I have seen only one heart shot deer get back on its feet and run, though have seen a few foxes do this using hard deer bullets. The deer in question was a Fallow doe and it made about 25yds before finding out it was dead. Perhaps this backs up Sakos findings with the v-max though personally i don't use this sort of bullet on deer

 

The perfect shot? well its got nothing to do with if the deer runs or not thats for sure as i mention "down aint dead" Its the fact that the shot goes were it was aimed and the best one for the circumstances at hand as far as i am conserned. It also helps if you personally know something of what you are doing instead of mearly claiming brownie points :rolleyes:

[njc110381]

The perfect shot? well its got nothing to do with if the deer runs or not thats for sure as i mention "down aint dead" Its the fact that the shot goes were it was aimed and the best one for the circumstances at hand as far as i am conserned. It also helps if you personally know something of what you are doing instead of mearly claiming brownie points :rolleyes:

 

Spot on.

 

you have shot deer with a 22 hornet,is that legal

 

Yes I've shot several. To clarify "is it legal" for people who don't know? Well yes if you are killing the Deer as an act of mercy (shooting it if it's hurt beyond natural repair and in pain - humanely dispatching it). To go out and stalk Deer with that calibre wouldn't be and could get you in a lot of trouble.

 

Given the choice I will always use a Deer calibre or a shotgun but if you happen to be called out by a land owner whilst foxing or stumble across one when out then whatever I have to hand is better than leaving it there to suffer. Luckily the Deer act has recently changed to accomodate the use of sub calibre rifles, a decision which I feel is very sensible.

Edited November 6, 2011 by njc110381