gamekeeper1960 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Hi everyone, I've now been in this syndicate (as a half gun I'm not a payed keeper although I've been doing keepering all my life )for 18 mounth, reared 1 lot of pheasants and 2 lots of partridges, the last lot of pheasants came as poults,I even had 500 pheasant in a pen in my garden and 300 of the partridges .So I have looked after feeding all the birds 4 days a week since we started but for this season we took in six new half guns who seem to want to rule the roost and after 2 not so good shoot days, I've now been told these other gun want me out of the syndicate because they say there are no birds on the farm the other chap who feeds says he's seeing birds every where as am I. Im at a loss to know what to do they say Im only getting back £200 as this is all I'm entitled to but as I've pointed out this does not take into concideration what I've spent in runing cost on my landy And for me to go and buy 4 to replace days the days I had left this is going to cost me in exsess of £1000, So I dont know what to do and I feel that I've shafted by orginal members who say they dont want to rock the boat just in case their next .So please tell what would you DO any surgestions would be great. Edited November 16, 2011 by gamekeeper1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy75 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Making a judgement after only 2 days is a bit rash - many shoots are struggling to stop birds from wandering at the moment due to the warm weather. I don't know how you'd put that across to them, but any experienced gun will know that every shoot has its ups and downs through the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) If the new guns are half guns that must mean that the original members out number them. Who has told you they want you out of the syndicate? It seems they presume a lot from a couple of days All the original members cant be stupid, even if they are cowardly, they must know the contribution you make and know also that they will end up doing the work if you are forced out. Equally, if these new guns are allowed to, they will rule the roost and what was an enjoyable syndicate will be filled with their cronies. To me the answers simple. Call a meeting of at least the same number and preferably at least one more of the original guns - exclude the new ones. Set out what you have done and suggest that you need their support but if they are unwilling to support you, you will withdraw from the shoot, on payment of the £1000 you have personally put into the shoot in money and effort, you will provide a properly drawn up account. It seems to me your syndicate mates should support you - if they dont, they arent worth a candle and you should leave but after you have your money. All this presumes you are a loose group with no formal rules and you are not affiliated to BASC. Explain all this to the Chairman and Treasurer and go for it. Best of luck - you dont need the **** they are dishing up. Edited November 16, 2011 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I see this very simply - if You are not appreciated for your hard work and efforts, £1000 and all your other costs go a long way towards a full gun on a decent syndicate, If the original guns are hanging you out to dry then stuff them. Do they honestly think You open crates, hoof birds out and thats it? At the moment we are dogging in about 4 hours per day (and thats 3 of us!) to look after our interests, were hoping to ease up over the next few weeks - but as long as we are still finding birds we will keep at it! Good luck getting it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decoy1979 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hi, I think it all depends on the source on information, if these new guys have spoken to you directly then I'd attempt to educate them on all the work and effort that you've put in, fight your case and if it was me I wouldn't be forced out! If it's just word of mouth or hearsay from one of the existing members clarify what's been said and by whom as it may be someone is rocking the boat and wants you out. In short get the facts before you do anything, if that means calling a meeting and getting all members to attend it's better to resolve it now than let it ramble on.. Good luck, hope all get resolved in your favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Surely if you are a full paid up member, either in cash or in services you have already provided, they cannot simply kick you out, you have the right to shoot your season out. However, i cant see you really wanting to carry on with the shoot given these new members attitudes. Prepare a very detailed invoice and submit it for payment then take yourself off and find a shoot which will appreciate your efforts. Funny thing syndicates as the one i joined last year has just blown itself to bits under similar circumstances you have described. Hope it all works out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Surely if you are a full paid up member, either in cash or in services you have already provided, they cannot simply kick you out, you have the right to shoot your season out. However, i cant see you really wanting to carry on with the shoot given these new members attitudes. Prepare a very detailed invoice and submit it for payment then take yourself off and find a shoot which will appreciate your efforts. Funny thing syndicates as the one i joined last year has just blown itself to bits under similar circumstances you have described. Hope it all works out Firstly thank you all for your words of surpport, and secondly I've now been informed that Im able to stay and shoot the rest of the season as long as I have no input what so ever! but to be honest I dont realy want to join in with these people after all this s##t thats gone on, but they're saying thats the best they'll do. But it seem that they have already spoken the the land owner as I've had him on the phone this morning and hes threating to pull the plug on the synidcate at the end of this season so it looks as though they could have already have shoot themselfs in foot big time.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashgun Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) who has the shooting rights with land owner. Edited November 17, 2011 by Flashgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Firstly thank you all for your words of surpport, and secondly I've now been informed that Im able to stay and shoot the rest of the season as long as I have no input what so ever! but to be honest I dont realy want to join in with these people after all this s##t thats gone on, but they're saying thats the best they'll do. But it seem that they have already spoken the the land owner as I've had him on the phone this morning and hes threating to pull the plug on the synidcate at the end of this season so it looks as though they could have already have shoot themselfs in foot big time.!! Best to keep in with the landowner IMO, looks like new members (where did they come from?) are expecting corporate days for syndicate money (unusual to have so many half guns?) Keep Schtum and make sure you get out of the experience what you can. Stand bag shoot your bag and watch it fall down around their ears. Edited November 17, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark@mbb Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 can you not ask the land owner if you can take over the shoot and run it for him as a joint investment and sell days to your shoot members it would certainly open there eyes Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hi everyone, I've now been in this syndicate (as a half gun I'm not a payed keeper although I've been doing keepering all my life )for 18 mounth, reared 1 lot of pheasants and 2 lots of partridges, the last lot of pheasants came as poults,I even had 500 pheasant in a pen in my garden and 300 of the partridges .So I have looked after feeding all the birds 4 days a week since we started but for this season we took in six new half guns who seem to want to rule the roost and after 2 not so good shoot days, I've now been told these other gun want me out of the syndicate because they say there are no birds on the farm the other chap who feeds says he's seeing birds every where as am I. Im at a loss to know what to do they say Im only getting back £200 as this is all I'm entitled to but as I've pointed out this does not take into concideration what I've spent in runing cost on my landy And for me to go and buy 4 to replace days the days I had left this is going to cost me in exsess of £1000, So I dont know what to do and I feel that I've shafted by orginal members who say they dont want to rock the boat just in case their next .So please tell what would you DO any surgestions would be great. It sounds as if your new members have not had a lot of shooting experience and as someone has said already they are looking for corporate days at syndicate money. Eventually they will learn and discover the amount of work which goes into running a shoot, and at the end of the day they will be the losers for want of your services. Again someone has suggested that you take the shooting in some form or another, even establish a new syndicate as I am sure the demand for this type of shooting far exceeds the supply. You could without a doubt find enough willing members on this forum to take half or full guns. Good luck anyway. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Firstly thank you all for your words of surpport, and secondly I've now been informed that Im able to stay and shoot the rest of the season as long as I have no input what so ever! but to be honest I dont realy want to join in with these people after all this s##t thats gone on, but they're saying thats the best they'll do. But it seem that they have already spoken the the land owner as I've had him on the phone this morning and hes threating to pull the plug on the synidcate at the end of this season so it looks as though they could have already have shoot themselfs in foot big time.!! I would get some nice heavy loads, put in the ¾ and full in and nip some high birds off their line!! And shout sorry! I did think you had seen it...... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 It sounds as if your new members have not had a lot of shooting experience and as someone has said already they are looking for corporate days at syndicate money. Eventually they will learn and discover the amount of work which goes into running a shoot, and at the end of the day they will be the losers for want of your services. Again someone has suggested that you take the shooting in some form or another, even establish a new syndicate as I am sure the demand for this type of shooting far exceeds the supply. You could without a doubt find enough willing members on this forum to take half or full guns. Good luck anyway. Blackpowder Hi all just an update to let you all know that I've had one of my mates drop round and give me £200 and he has said they had a wip round yesterday after the shoot and that was what they came up with thank god I have one friend as he didnt put anything in and as he said he would'nt either because he does not agree with it, but it seems that everyone alse did. Now my problem is this Im now left 4 shootin days down and dont have any more money to pay for my 4 days either. So does anybody know if this is something I can take to a solicitor Or do you think as I do that there must be some sort of law that stops "witch hunts and kangaroo courts" To be honest I know dont now what to think other than my GOD I must have a big target on my back as it looks like all the people who I concidered to be my friend have all stab me fair and square! is just one big **** up! now my mrs is is screaming fit to burst as shes says all of these so called friends have sat in my house eatern at my table!! man this is big ******* MESS and I dont know what ele to say. thank you for your surpport and words of encoragement but I think I've sold upthe River.Cheers Alkl Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashgun Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 n. cole said stop worrying about it and get on with it . the shoot will probably fold anyway and then you might be able to get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Indeed they sound good mates Sounds like they haven't a clue As they have only coughed up £200 I would give it back to them and shoot the rest of the season and fill your boots especially if next to the new half guns Regards Archi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanielman Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Don't know if it works the same as a business transaction, but by giving you a payment they have admitted that money is due too you, l use a solicitor that works on a no win no fee basis collecting unpaid invoices and they have told me if someone makes a payment to you, (like giving you a cheque that bounces) they are accepting liability for the debt, l know yours is not a debt, but does seem the same principal, basically their offering you money, so they must feel your entitled to some renumeration, even though you think it is not enough, get in touch with them and tell them it is not enough and ask for the amount you think is due to you. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Don't know if it works the same as a business transaction, but by giving you a payment they have admitted that money is due too you, l use a solicitor that works on a no win no fee basis collecting unpaid invoices and they have told me if someone makes a payment to you, (like giving you a cheque that bounces) they are accepting liability for the debt, l know yours is not a debt, but does seem the same principal, basically their offering you money, so they must feel your entitled to some renumeration, even though you think it is not enough, get in touch with them and tell them it is not enough and ask for the amount you think is due to you. Good Luck. Thank you for your advice Spanielman, I've have rung and spoken to a mate of mine thats still with the syndicate and hes passing on my message and hes says their trying to call a meeting, but I think what people are saying is basiclly right they are just un-educated but then I was taught "That if you want to learn then first you have to learn to listen" but I dont think they know how! seems they like the sound of their own voices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) n. cole said stop worrying about it and get on with it . the shoot will probably fold anyway and then you might be able to get it back. He can say that! He knows you old boys wont shove him out the door Edited November 21, 2011 by gamekeeper1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hi everyone, I've now been in this syndicate (as a half gun I'm not a payed keeper although I've been doing keepering all my life )for 18 mounth, reared 1 lot of pheasants and 2 lots of partridges, the last lot of pheasants came as poults,I even had 500 pheasant in a pen in my garden and 300 of the partridges .So I have looked after feeding all the birds 4 days a week since we started but for this season we took in six new half guns who seem to want to rule the roost and after 2 not so good shoot days, I've now been told these other gun want me out of the syndicate because they say there are no birds on the farm the other chap who feeds says he's seeing birds every where as am I. Im at a loss to know what to do they say Im only getting back £200 as this is all I'm entitled to but as I've pointed out this does not take into concideration what I've spent in runing cost on my landy And for me to go and buy 4 to replace days the days I had left this is going to cost me in exsess of £1000, So I dont know what to do and I feel that I've shafted by orginal members who say they dont want to rock the boat just in case their next .So please tell what would you DO any surgestions would be great. Well in answer to my first question ! Choose your shooting buddys and friends in general a whole lot better than I did ! To update, I've taken leagel advice and been informed that there is no way to get compensation for hard work done unless you are being paid! Whether this is just! I'll leave upto you to decide,But the only light at the end of the tunnel for me, is these people will never get this farm to shoot on again.and if you are approached by any former members of the "Manor Farm, Trunch, Norfolk, Shooting Syndicate." next year then you know what to look out for as this could be you!! Cheers All Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon360 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 The trouble with DIY shoots is transparency, no one appreciates the effort put in to having a successful shoot. They expect to turn up and have a stream of birds over the pegs. We had similar problems at our shoot which have now been sorted thanks to regular meetings weekly update emails and total transparency. I cannot see why these six new half guns should decide on any outcome alone, a syndicate is group of people who as a whole group can make decisions. Good luck hope it all goes your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 your not miles away from me and i know what a bunch of harris holes people are like your way . stick with the land owner , never give favours to shooting mates and start again would be my answer . as been said before , the shoot will fold , and you will be left with the landowner , perfect ! failing that , if the landowner is a really good mate , and no money has changed hands , get him to cancel permission on his land so they cant shoot the birds and have a few walked up days yourselfs . but that is extreme . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 your not miles away from me and i know what a bunch of harris holes people are like your way . stick with the land owner , never give favours to shooting mates and start again would be my answer . as been said before , the shoot will fold , and you will be left with the landowner , perfect ! failing that , if the landowner is a really good mate , and no money has changed hands , get him to cancel permission on his land so they cant shoot the birds and have a few walked up days yourselfs . but that is extreme . Hi all, just got the best news ever mate rang to tell my old shoot today yielded six birds for thirty one shots, so it seems they dont know everything !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) ANY shoot that has SIX new guns in one season has problems unless its a brand new venture. All decent shoots that I am aware of then its usually dead mans shoes or pretty close to. SIX HALF guns have only the voting power of 3 full guns, I assume you shoot 9 guns, so taking your own half out then the leaves 5 1/2 guns that may vote in your favour. No one dispenses with guns or keepers services at this time of year, for someone to consider same is frankly appalling and I think you will be far better off out of it. Stand your ground at the post season meeting, present and detail your expenses, make a stab at the hours you put in and any benefits that you enjoy that others perhaps don't. Lamping maybe or stalking. I would wait and see what the remainder of the season brings, then be prepared to move on if necessary with you head held high, they will pretty soon learn the error of their ways, you reap as you shall sow. If they decide to throw you out now then unless you have a written agreement you may struggle in court, perhaps BASC could advise. A Edited December 13, 2011 by Alycidon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) I would wait and see what the remainder of the season brings, then be prepared to move on if necessary with you head held high, they will pretty soon learn the error of their ways, you reap as you shall sow. Hi Alycidon. Well to up date last shoot (17th Dec) they had five pheseant and fourteen pigeons as they went roost shooting afterwards. two of them even lied to my mate thats still with them ( He ended up in hostital and was there over the weekend ) one said they got ten the other said they had finished with nineteen ,like you say reap what shall sow and my god it could'nt happen to a nicer bunch of guys Edited December 22, 2011 by gamekeeper1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hi all, just got the best news ever mate rang to tell my old shoot today yielded six birds for thirty one shots, so it seems they dont know everything !!! thats funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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