M.I.A Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 There's also a good chance you'll get ricochets with them, but hey let's not let safety and respect for your quarry cloud the issue. Your mad, if a pigeon load will do it then a steel load of no3's will be even better! Your arguement is stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Following my previous video on tracking foxes where the wind noise made it almost impossible to hear what was being said I have had a better day wind wise so I have remade the video. This video is aimed at novices to foxing and those wanting to learn about tracking and locating "Charlie". There is still unfirtunately some wind noise even though I have added a small wind filter but you can hear what I am saying much more clearly. If you want to add CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISMS, comments or questions please feel free to do so, but if you wish to make any other comments regarding my appearance or anything personal please direct them to me via PM so that this thread can stay as a purely informational one for those that want to learn and appreciate it. Thanks for watching guys! Enjoyed that Seems a shame some people are still only too happy to try and pick holes/ pick an argument Strikes me You seem to know what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Good video frenchie, i will know what to look out for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygreengrass Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Cracking video frenchie, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherwayup Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Nice video, you come across really well. Couple of ideas; When you have the captions on screen it would be nice if you could have some kind of audio continuing rather than abruptly going silent. If you could get someone else to film whilst you do your stuff the videos would be v/good. If that's not an option, then I think you need to have the camera zoomed out a lot more, there was a lot of looking down at grass close up when it wasn't needed at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted December 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Nice video, you come across really well. Couple of ideas; When you have the captions on screen it would be nice if you could have some kind of audio continuing rather than abruptly going silent. If you could get someone else to film whilst you do your stuff the videos would be v/good. If that's not an option, then I think you need to have the camera zoomed out a lot more, there was a lot of looking down at grass close up when it wasn't needed at that point. Thanks for the suggestions. I am taking all of these suggestions for improvement to the video quality on board and will try to take them into account and impliment them when I do my next video. Thank Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Your mad, if a pigeon load will do it then a steel load of no3's will be even better! Your arguement is stupid! Brilliant, and coming from the same person who wrote: Ive just returned from a dusk shoot on the ducks (mallard) Today they have been flying very high, so what carts will i be best to get? I fired at a duck at around 30 yards, the lowest of the day with rc hp steel, 32g no3 shot and it didnt even flinch shot connected well! I do not rate these carts ive used some on the crows and they have never given me a clean kill. Would bb be ok to use for the high ones? But would they do too much damage on the lower ones? Thanks My gun is 3" chambered and hp steel proof So, they don't kill a duck or a crow at 30 yards but will kill a fox? And you say I'm mad :lol: As far as I'm concerned Frenchieboy asked for comments on his video, and in my opinion a load of steel 3's is not a good load to be using on fox, nor is it a good idea to be shooting steel at ground targets. I've never said a steel load won't kill a close range fox, maybe it will, maybe it won't, but it's far from the ideal, so why take a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikka.223 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Brilliant, and coming from the same person who wrote: Ive just returned from a dusk shoot on the ducks (mallard) Today they have been flying very high, so what carts will i be best to get? I fired at a duck at around 30 yards, the lowest of the day with rc hp steel, 32g no3 shot and it didnt even flinch shot connected well! I do not rate these carts ive used some on the crows and they have never given me a clean kill. Would bb be ok to use for the high ones? But would they do too much damage on the lower ones? Thanks My gun is 3" chambered and hp steel proof So, they don't kill a duck or a crow at 30 yards but will kill a fox? And you say I'm mad :lol: As far as I'm concerned Frenchieboy asked for comments on his video, and in my opinion a load of steel 3's is not a good load to be using on fox, nor is it a good idea to be shooting steel at ground targets. I've never said a steel load won't kill a close range fox, maybe it will, maybe it won't, but it's far from the ideal, so why take a chance? You've given your opinion on the video,you may be better carrying on your cartridge choice debate in the Bullets,Cartridges and Reloading section. Edited December 2, 2011 by tikka.223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 You've given your opinion on the video,you may be better carrying on your cartridge choice debate in the Guns and Equipment section. As far as I'm concerned there is no debate. Thanks for your input though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onslow52 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Keep up the good work frenchie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Brilliant, and coming from the same person who wrote: Ive just returned from a dusk shoot on the ducks (mallard) Today they have been flying very high, so what carts will i be best to get? I fired at a duck at around 30 yards, the lowest of the day with rc hp steel, 32g no3 shot and it didnt even flinch shot connected well! I do not rate these carts ive used some on the crows and they have never given me a clean kill. Would bb be ok to use for the high ones? But would they do too much damage on the lower ones? Thanks My gun is 3" chambered and hp steel proof So, they don't kill a duck or a crow at 30 yards but will kill a fox? And you say I'm mad :lol: As far as I'm concerned Frenchieboy asked for comments on his video, and in my opinion a load of steel 3's is not a good load to be using on fox, nor is it a good idea to be shooting steel at ground targets. I've never said a steel load won't kill a close range fox, maybe it will, maybe it won't, but it's far from the ideal, so why take a chance? Being honest he has a point IMHO Well done on trying to educate newbies though FB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'm amazed!! After your recent post asking what cartridge to use for fox you've gone against all advice and opted for a duck load!! http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/186833-which-12g-cartridge-for-fox/ I find it sad that you'd put the cost of a couple of decent fox cartridges above the need for a swift and decisive kill, especially coming from someone who claims that 'wounding is not an option'. Must say I have to agree with Poontang. Honestly how many foxes in a year are you going to ambush at 20-25 yards to not justify buying something that is going to do the job properly. I have shot foxes with game loads in the past but these have only been opportunist shots and I wouldn't class them as a fox load. I think you are giving quite bad advice to novices if you are posting about shooting foxes with Steel no.3's. Another constructive criticism from the original video was the fact that you went up the fox earth and practically shouted down the hole. Any fox down the earth would not be too fussed on coming out after that. After many years of bolting and shooting foxes from holes I would advise anyone wanting to do the same to approach a fox earth as quietly as you can so that it will give your terrier the chance to bolt the fox. Of course you weren't using terriers, but as this is targeted at novices we must cover all eventualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) OK Guys, let's try to put this issue defore there is any chance of it turning into some sort of a "slanging match" or, (for want of putting it another way) a "free for all raging argument", something I am not prepared to be a part of. As has been stated in many instances on various threads in the past that a "game load" has been used for foxes quite adequately - All be it that in the majority of cases it has been "opportunistic shots"! With that in mind if we accept that a "standard" or "regular" game load is a 70mm cartridge loaded with 30 or 32 grm of size 6 (Lead) shot will someone please offer a sensible and reasonable explanation as to why a 3 inch (76mm) cartridge loaded with 36 grm of size 3 steel shot would not offer an acceptable humane dispatch at the same range please. May I just add that wherever possible I would opt for a rifle shot from my .243 as my first choice for shooting foxes (Not a .22LR or a .17HMR which some areas allow for foxes) and that this is a "one off" situation so if I had brought a box of 25 cartridges loaded with AA (Or similar) lead shot then I would quite likely have a box containing maybe 23 cartridges sat on my shelf doing nothing for heaven knows how long! Let's please have some sensible and logical answers/explanations to this without it getting out of hand please. Edited December 3, 2011 by Frenchieboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 As has been stated in many instances on various threads in the past that a "game load" has been used for foxes quite adequately - All be it that in the majority of cases it has been "opportunistic shots"! With that in mind if we accept that a "standard" or "regular" game load is a 70mm cartridge loaded with 30 or 32 grm of size 6 (Lead) shot will someone please offer a sensible and reasonable explanation as to why a 3 inch (76mm) cartridge loaded with 36 grm of size 3 steel shot would not offer an acceptable humane dispatch at the same range please. I don't suppose anyone really knows whether the steel load will cleanly kill a fox, as I doubt anyone's used them for that purpose, but the fact that it's a duck load should tell you all you need to know. What I do know is that I've seen plenty of duck crippled with the exact cartridge you're planning on using, so I would be fairly confident in saying they aren't going to perform well on a fox. You're basically entering uncharted territory when there really is no need, as there are plenty of other cartridges which are designed specifically for the job in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 this is a "one off" situation so if I had brought a box of 25 cartridges loaded with AA (Or similar) lead shot then I would quite likely have a box containing maybe 23 cartridges sat on my shelf doing nothing for heaven knows how long! Let's please have some sensible and logical answers/explanations to this without it getting out of hand please. Firstly even if they were sat on your shelf,they don't eat meat. You are planning on doing more videos,what if the next fox is not in a suitable place for your .243,but is always 40yds away? You now have the correct cartridge to cover that eventuallity rather than going back to the shop and buying another box...therefore buying the steel shot is a false economy Go back and part ex them against some no 1 lead shot,they will flatten your fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Monkey Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Thanks for the video Frenchieboy, some of us appreciate the effort you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'm intrigued FB...why steel over lead..? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) I'm intrigued FB...why steel over lead..? :blink: A similar question was asked earlier. The answer is quite simple. I went and brought cartridges the other day but I did not want to buy a box of 25 heavy lead loaded cartridges for just a one off job and have the box with maybe 23 left sitting on the shelf for ever after. The box of 10 X 3" Mammoth Heavy Load in 3 inch steel was what was available at the time which I decided would be quite "adequate" for this one job at the range I am planning to use them at. I have spent the day out shooting with Nik (aka Bangbangnik) and being as the weather was so wet and windy I took him to have a look around some of my permissions which he is welcome to shoot on with me any time he wants to. We had a particularly close look at the permission where the fox is and paid particular attention to where I was planning on shooting from and the spot that I am hoping to get the shot in at the fox. After very careful checking we both agreed that the range was just about 20 yards - A little closer than I originally estimated, so the cartridges that I have got should be more than sufficient for a humane kill and what are left over can always be used for any geese or ducks that I might get invited to shoot. We also paid attention to the angle that I would be shooting from and to and it was agreed that there is nothing at all to get any ricochets from as I would be shooting on a slightly downwards angle with nothing in the line of fire to deflect any of the shot. Edit: Grasshopper, I'm sorry but I missed the question in your post. In answer to that question about if the next one was 40 yards and not suitable for shooting with the .243 - I would have to rething the entire situation as I personally ( and I know that many others will disagree) do not feel that a shotgun is acceptable for foxes at anything over 35 yards maximum (On a regular basis - Discounting of course the few "oportunistic shots" that do occasionally arise) no matter what type of cartridge you are using. Edited December 3, 2011 by Frenchieboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrshiretaxidermy Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 A similar question was asked earlier. The answer is quite simple. I went and brought cartridges the other day but I did not want to buy a box of 25 heavy lead loaded cartridges for just a one off job and have the box with maybe 23 left sitting on the shelf for ever after. The box of 10 X 3" Mammoth Heavy Load in 3 inch steel was what was available at the time which I decided would be quite "adequate" for this one job at the range I am planning to use them at. I have spent the day out shooting with Nik (aka Bangbangnik) and being as the weather was so wet and windy I took him to have a look around some of my permissions which he is welcome to shoot on with me any time he wants to. We had a particularly close look at the permission where the fox is and paid particular attention to where I was planning on shooting from and the spot that I am hoping to get the shot in at the fox. After very careful checking we both agreed that the range was just about 20 yards - A little closer than I originally estimated, so the cartridges that I have got should be more than sufficient for a humane kill and what are left over can always be used for any geese or ducks that I might get invited to shoot. We also paid attention to the angle that I would be shooting from and to and it was agreed that there is nothing at all to get any ricochets from as I would be shooting on a slightly downwards angle with nothing in the line of fire to deflect any of the shot. Edit: Grasshopper, I'm sorry but I missed the question in your post. In answer to that question about if the next one was 40 yards and not suitable for shooting with the .243 - I would have to rething the entire situation as I personally ( and I know that many others will disagree) do not feel that a shotgun is acceptable for foxes at anything over 35 yards maximum (On a regular basis - Discounting of course the few "oportunistic shots" that do occasionally arise) no matter what type of cartridge you are using. Im wondering why you have visited the fox job on several occassions. Why dont you just go and shoot the thing instead of spendings days doing angles and videos and have 2 folk agree on a 20 yard distance. Its ludicrous, shoot the thing and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconBoy Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 i liked the video but was it worth all the effort FB,i wouldn't bother again,everyones seems to be eggspurtz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterTom Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Interesting and informative video! Thanks. Keep them coming Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktattoo Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 always good frenchie, keep up the good work. Cant see why your cart wouldnt work and at the end of the day dead is dead reguardless of shot size or rifle calibre as long as the shot is safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted December 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Ok guys, in light of the recent "debate" on the cartridge choice with something that has come up today I am a little puzzled and on the point of agreeing that my original choice of cartridge might not have been the best. I was given a couple of Eley 3inch Magnum Cartridges loaded with BB Lead shot today and when I put one of them along side the Gamebore Steel Shot Mammoth the difference is quite noticable. This urged me to measure the cartridges and I was surprised at the difference. The Eley 3 inch Magnums are in fact 76mm (3 inches) long - Exactly what I would expect. However, when I measured the Gamebore 3 Inch cartridges they are only 63mm (2&1/2 inches) long, even though the box clearly says that they are surposed to be 76mm long! This difference in the length of the cartridges (To my way of thinking) could make quite a difference and is the reason why I could easily concede that the initial choice of cartridge might well not be the best cartridges to use for the job! I will of course welcome your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'm guessing the Eley lead BB cartridge has been fired? The 76mm (3") refers to the length of the cartridge AFTER firing. A 70mm cartridge (2 3/4") is 58mm long unfired, and as you have found out a 76mm (3") cartridge is in fact only 63mm long before firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Did we find out what choke the gun was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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