mr smith Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) This conductor has been doing the job for many a year and knows full well like the rest of us the police really can't be bother with this sort of thing and as for the BTP their so thinly spread you'd only likely actually see one in the main stations and rarely late at night. There is also the problem that video may not show the whole story i.e. what was said before it was filmed.If indeed he had bought two tickets for the same direction why didn't he show the guard them and then there wouldn't have been a problem. Edited December 14, 2011 by mr smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Have to agree with this... I am not condoning just sitting and watching whilst things go on... if the youth had attacked the guard or threatened physical harm then I would be the first to come to his aid but in this situation that wasn't the case, the yob (that's all he was) was just being verbally abusive (sticks & stones and all that) and was breaking the law, however, the conductor was the one that escallated the problem. He should have radiod for the BTP to meet the train at the next station, then once that was in place get the train moving again... that way, the yob would have either left the train there and then as requested in panic about plod or have no chance of exiting the train before he was collared at the next station. The issue with 'big man's' kind of actions is, where do you draw the line.. what is acceptable and what isn't.. Was 'big man' trained in safe handling of a struggling person... the Police are.. What if the yob had sustained serious injury being thrown onto the platform is that really proportionate to a skipped fare... what's the usual penalty.. £10 or something.. hardly comparable to a fractured skull. The situation was handled abysmally and should have never got to that point. If the conductor had done things differently, no one would have been inconvenienced, or had to witness the debarcle AND the lad would have been dealt with by the proper authorities. The only person that could have brought on a coronary there was the conductor himself! Tough, simple as, liked the bit "verbally abusive" and sticks and stones, had the lad used that lanquage in front of my grand kids, he would still be digging out the bar of soap. KW Edited December 14, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Tough, simple as, liked the bit "verbally abusive" and sticks and stones, had the lad used that lanquage in front of my grand kids, he would still be digging out the bar of soap. KW And you would quite probably end up in court... Come on KW even you are restrained enough NOT to use physical violence as retaliation for verbal abuse! Edited December 14, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 This conductor has been doing the job for many a year and knows full well like the rest of us the police really can't be bother with this sort of thing and as for the BTP their so thinly spread you'd only likely actually see one in the main stations and rarely late at night. There is also the problem that video may not show the whole story i.e. what was said before it was filmed.If indeed he had bought two tickets for the same direction why didn't he show the guard them and then there wouldn't have been a problem. Because he had only bought 1 single ticket and was trying his luck and got caught. If he'd held his hands up and admitted it nothing would have happened but because he was a little gob***** we have a 9 page thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 This conductor has been doing the job for many a year and knows full well like the rest of us the police really can't be bother with this sort of thing and as for the BTP their so thinly spread you'd only likely actually see one in the main stations and rarely late at night. There is also the problem that video may not show the whole story i.e. what was said before it was filmed.If indeed he had bought two tickets for the same direction why didn't he show the guard them and then there wouldn't have been a problem. It doesn't matter... As I said, I don't have a problem intevening if someone is being attacked or is about to be but, no matter how annoying this situation was or how inconvenienced, 'Big Man' had absolutely no excuse or defence in doing what he did. He was not protecting anyone from harm, he was not being threatened himself or felt he was in immediate danger and he was on private property, that of the train company... Let's see what the courts think when plod catch up with him... I don't think they will see his actions as somehow heroic, I think they will see it as stupid, dangerous and at the end of the day, what he did was asault, plain and simple... if the conductor on his employers property has no power to forcibly eject someone from the vehicle then why would a perfect stranger.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Because he had only bought 1 single ticket and was trying his luck and got caught. If he'd held his hands up and admitted it nothing would have happened but because he was a little gob***** we have a 9 page thread. I have to say 99.9% of the time you have it spot on.I know the guard involved and he's not the type of guy to start anything infact he wouldn't say boo to moose so something must have got this going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddywack12 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Have to agree with this... I am not condoning just sitting and watching whilst things go on... if the youth had attacked the guard or threatened physical harm then I would be the first to come to his aid but in this situation that wasn't the case, the yob (that's all he was) was just being verbally abusive (sticks & stones and all that) and was breaking the law, however, the conductor was the one that escallated the problem. He should have radiod for the BTP to meet the train at the next station, then once that was in place get the train moving again... that way, the yob would have either left the train there and then as requested in panic about plod or have no chance of exiting the train before he was collared at the next station.[/font] Dont think so...I witnessed a similar incident a few years ago, 3 hoodies had no ticket, the conductor tried to get them off and told them plod would be waiting at the next station. Half way to next station they pulled the emergency cord forced the doors open and ran off down the track laughing and giving the finger to conductor.Leaving all us fare paying passengers with another delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
working dog Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I deal with it at least once a month on an aircraft (drunks). If someone is being abusive de-escalate, ask them to leave the aircraft voluntarily and if that doesn't work I get the Police to offload them. If a passenger was to offer help I'd thank them but ask them to sit down as the situation was being handled. Most folk walk off voluntarily when they know the Police will be involved. This thread brought to mind a situation about 10 years ago when I read it earlier. Four 6ft + lads with their partners and kids on a flight back from somewhere long haul. We were two seats in front of them on the opposite side of the plane. Lads had too much ale and were being really abusive. Nobody intervened but it was a really tense situation. Landed at Maine airport and everybody was told to remain seated. Next thing you saw was a group of airport cops walking down the aisle and marched said lads off the plane - at this point the lads became a lot less abusive. Needless to say they didnt fly home on the plane and left screaming kids asking how daddy was going to get home . Slightly different to the train situation as its not as easy to land with a few grazes from that altitude. On this situation, the ticket collector colud've handled it better by following the procedure mentioned in the news articles and telling the big man not to intervene, the scrote couldve been far more complaint and less abusive(assuming that he had a ticket to produce). There are too many situations where abuse is ignored or simply tolerated. If it was nipped in the bud and acted on, rather than applying our PC laws, we wouldnt have anywhere near the levels of anti social behaviour that we now see. Good on him for doing what a lot of us say we would do.... after the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Have to agree with this... I am not condoning just sitting and watching whilst things go on... if the youth had attacked the guard or threatened physical harm then I would be the first to come to his aid but in this situation that wasn't the case, the yob (that's all he was) was just being verbally abusive (sticks & stones and all that) and was breaking the law, however, the conductor was the one that escallated the problem. He should have radiod for the BTP to meet the train at the next station, then once that was in place get the train moving again... that way, the yob would have either left the train there and then as requested in panic about plod or have no chance of exiting the train before he was collared at the next station. The issue with 'big man's' kind of actions is, where do you draw the line.. what is acceptable and what isn't.. Was 'big man' trained in safe handling of a struggling person... the Police are.. What if the yob had sustained serious injury being thrown onto the platform is that really proportionate to a skipped fare... what's the usual penalty.. £10 or something.. hardly comparable to a fractured skull. The situation was handled abysmally and should have never got to that point. If the conductor had done things differently, no one would have been inconvenienced, or had to witness the debarcle AND the lad would have been dealt with by the proper authorities. The only person that could have brought on a coronary there was the conductor himself! my opinion exactly. and for the ones on about mix up with tickets,read the article,the lad reckons he was told to buy 2 singles as it works out cheaper,and he reckons he gave the opposite ticket to different conductor on first journey,easy mistake to make,especially for a tipsy teenager,if it was my son treated like that over a silly fare of a few pound,and some miserable peeps worried about getting home late from work id be tamping and would take it all the way.would have any of you got off and walked home if you made mistake with ticket?? amazing how many responsible adults with rifles on here are willing to throw someones child about 19 years old or not.very worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 my opinion exactly. and for the ones on about mix up with tickets,read the article,the lad reckons he was told to buy 2 singles as it works out cheaper,and he reckons he gave the opposite ticket to different conductor on first journey,easy mistake to make,especially for a tipsy teenager,if it was my son treated like that over a silly fare of a few pound,and some miserable peeps worried about getting home late from work id be tamping and would take it all the way.would have any of you got off and walked home if you made mistake with ticket?? amazing how many responsible adults with rifles on here are willing to throw someones child about 19 years old or not.very worrying. and the swearing and abuse is ok then??? :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Oh no! What have I done? Another member (or rather a total member) has taken umbridge over me having a difference of opinion to him and has therefore denoted me the "bad" Doc. libs, I'm, sorry... No, let me finish please... I'm sorry, but you must be confusing me with someone who actually gives a brown steaming one as to what you think of me. I have no problem with a differing opinion, without such differences we would all be robotic/German and no one wants that! What I am taking great pleasure from is how vehemently you are defending this chap! As if by some divine internet bonding action, by posting a link to his story you are his on-line defender and feel the need to shoot down anyone who lacks in agreement with you. You lost me when you started using phases such as.. evil to previal is for good men to stand by and do nothing. Regarding a skipped fair on a mainline train! Have a jolly nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Folks lets get ONE thing straight. The lad was in the wrong as he could not produce a valid ticket end off! You can argue the rest but the fact remains for whatever reason he should have paid up or got off the train, Simples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 mhe reckons he gave the opposite ticket to different conductor on first journey,easy mistake Yes it's an easy mistake to make but the first conductor would not have kept it so he would still have it go get home with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 19 year old child he is a man NOT A CHILD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 and the swearing and abuse is ok then??? :no: no,that is wrong and if i was there i would have said to him,cut the language out,but would not have threatened him or touched him,if it got worse,i would move carriages. you cant go hitting,man handling,or even touching people because their doing something you dont like.lifes full of that type of situation,just need to deal with them calmly. if he was trying to rob gaurd,or beating younger kids,or attacking old age woman ,fair enough,would step in and try and stop situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 19 years old a man,lol,hes barley shaving. rediculous comment,i hope nothing like this ever happens to your children at 19 and your told ,well their old enough to get beaten now.for god s sake,he dodged a train fair at worst,no one saying hes right,but maybe it was a mistake ,maybe its not,but god,not murder like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 If my 19 year old son fare dodged, got caught, was abusive and was then evicted from the train - I would pat the man on the back that did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Codling there are 19yr men fighting for our country at present so he is a MAN end off! a childish one who thinks it is ok to verbally abuse staff with young CHILDREN present! He is a clown and I have no sympathy for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Im with you their Dunkield my Son would get himself into real trouble if I found out he acted like that regardless of his age! As much as I would be **** off with the guy who through him off I would be telling the papers Big Man was right and my SOn was an ****! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 If my 19 year old son fare dodged, got caught, was abusive and was then evicted from the train - I would pat the man on the back that did it. correct...if I EVER hear my little one swear/givr abuse or misbehave he gets disaplined Codling there are 19yr men fighting for our country at present so he is a MAN end off! a childish one who thinks it is ok to verbally abuse staff with young CHILDREN present! He is a clown and I have no sympathy for him! :yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 19 years old a man,lol,hes barley shaving. rediculous comment,i hope nothing like this ever happens to your children at 19 and your told ,well their old enough to get beaten now.for god s sake,he dodged a train fair at worst,no one saying hes right,but maybe it was a mistake ,maybe its not,but god,not murder like. 19 is sadly old enough to be off to war and be killed, its old enough to have a wife and a family, so it's certainly old enough to have responsibility, and not behave like a foul-mouthed pice of dog dirt, or is that your definition of someone still being a child? so don't make me laugh with your feeble attempt to justify your yobby chums actions. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 19 years old a man,lol,hes barley shaving. rediculous comment,i hope nothing like this ever happens to your children at 19 and your told ,well their old enough to get beaten now.for god s sake,he dodged a train fair at worst,no one saying hes right,but maybe it was a mistake ,maybe its not,but god,not murder like. at 19 he should know better and have some manners then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codling99 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 haha my chum,he prob lives a lot closer you than me .im just having an opinion,that you hard fellas that like hitting young boys about dont agree with,my children are well behaved and wouldnt do any of the above,with out having to threaten or abuse them physically.dont get on your high moral horses,id bet half of self ritcheous people on here have and do a lot worse and get away with it day in day out. get a grip it was a train fair not armed robbery. next tile your renewals due,show this thread to feo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 19 years old a man,lol,hes barley shaving. rediculous comment,i hope nothing like this ever happens to your children at 19 and your told ,well their old enough to get beaten now.for god s sake,he dodged a train fair at worst,no one saying hes right,but maybe it was a mistake ,maybe its not,but god,not murder like. He hardly got beat up, just dumped off the train and a graze on his face, come down to A and E with me on a friday night and I will show you what beaten up means Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) 19 years old a man,lol,hes barley shaving. rediculous comment,i hope nothing like this ever happens to your children at 19 and your told ,well their old enough to get beaten now.for god s sake,he dodged a train fair at worst,no one saying hes right,but maybe it was a mistake ,maybe its not,but god,not murder like. same as me then and i'm 31 and if it was my kids i throw the **** off myself they need to learn easy way or the hard way they pick which route to take Edited December 14, 2011 by martyn2233 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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