englishman-in-wales Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 If its a joke - its in very poor taste after seeing a family detroyed only a few weeks ago. If its not a joke, Im afraid the swear blocker would stop Me from telling You what I think of You, the only saving grace is that You cant hurt My family from over the pond. UNBELIEVABLE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I've driven drunk a few times, but only when I didn't have any other choice. Not totally wasted, mind you, just a little over the limit (.08 over here). I'm a great drunk driver, plus I have the added luxury of my sister dating a cop who gives us the heads up on where all the DUI checkpoints are. As the other guys have said i hope your winding us up having seen many familys life destroyed by drink driving, you should never have been given a license if this is your attitude to driving :no: :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Can anyone doubt there is a law against being drunk in charge of a firearm, for Christs sake you can be drunk in charge of a bicycle and its a very slow form of projectile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I don't remember seeing anything in the firearms acts tbh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Can anyone doubt there is a law against being drunk in charge of a firearm, for Christs sake you can be drunk in charge of a bicycle and its a very slow form of projectile. scroll down one month in prison http://www.cambridgeshiresmallbore.co.uk/node/18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 In which case drivers should never, ever drink. Total abstinence, not a teetotaller? Then no driving licence for you matey. Because otherwise how would they know at what point all the alcohol in their system from their last drink of a couple of days ago, or a bowl of sherry trifle, a chocolate liqueur or whatever has dissipated so they are not 0.000001% over a legal limit of zero. I am absolutely not defending drinking and driving, I abhor it. But I do think an absolute zero limit would be problematic for these reasons. I dissagree with problematic, its life or death, that simple, as previously stated my driving licence and gun licences mean more to me than alcolhol. when I go out its always cola, fruit juice etc. I havent a clue or does anyone else the rate at which the body gets rid of the alcohol, so when am I safe to drive?? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) quote name='Kes' timestamp='1324420178' post='1621909'] Can anyone doubt there is a law against being drunk in charge of a firearm, for Christs sake you can be drunk in charge of a bicycle and its a very slow form of projectile. Danger to Yourself or the Public, covers it Edited December 21, 2011 by Alanl50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I dissagree with problematic, its life or death, that simple, as previously stated my driving licence and gun licences mean more to me than alcolhol. when I go out its always cola, fruit juice etc. I havent a clue or does anyone else the rate at which the body gets rid of the alcohol, so when am I safe to drive?? Alan Be carefull what you wish for while digging this hole - some medications have alchohol in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted December 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I dissagree with problematic, its life or death, that simple, as previously stated my driving licence and gun licences mean more to me than alcolhol. when I go out its always cola, fruit juice etc. I havent a clue or does anyone else the rate at which the body gets rid of the alcohol, so when am I safe to drive?? Alan You've misunderstood me. So you don't drink anything when your driving, fine. What happens if you had a few drinks 2 days before you drive, or even 3 days? If there us a strict zero limit, how do you know there still won't be a tiny trace still in your system? A tiny trace is still above zero. Medication with a trace, coq au vin, sherry trifle, mouth wash, chocolate liqueur, or my favourite rabbit in a cider and mushroom sauce? Forget any of those, or similar if you're a driver and there's an absolute zero limit. That's what I mean by problematic, not how many pints you can "get away with". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Offence - Drunk in charge of a loaded firearm Max penalty imprisonment - One month Max penalty fine - £200 Define "drunk" as they don't actually state a limit like they do with drink driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 You've misunderstood me. So you don't drink anything when your driving, fine. What happens if you had a few drinks 2 days before you drive, or even 3 days? If there us a strict zero limit, how do you know there still won't be a tiny trace still in your system? A tiny trace is still above zero. Medication with a trace, coq au vin, sherry trifle, mouth wash, chocolate liqueur, or my favourite rabbit in a cider and mushroom sauce? Forget any of those, or similar if you're a driver and there's an absolute zero limit. That's what I mean by problematic, not how many pints you can "get away with". The number of days I would guess would reflect the amount, I just checked on direct gov website, there advise below Any amount of alcohol affects your ability to drive Even a single drink affects your driving performance. If you drive after drinking, you'll: •be less alert and careful, however slowly you drive •have trouble judging your speed •be slower to react to hazards and it will take you longer to stop [/b] [b]Never offer an alcoholic drink to someone who is going to drive No safe way to calculate how to stay below limit. There’s no safe way to calculate how much alcohol you can drink and stay below the limit. The way alcohol affects you depends on: •your weight, age, sex and metabolism (the rate at which your body uses energy) •your stress levels at the time •what you have eaten recently •the type and amount of alcohol you’re drinking The only way to stay safe is not to drink any alcohol if you’re driving. Says it all really. Zero is the way to go there is no excuse, no confusion, and no loss of life Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry flashman Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Says it all really. Zero is the way to go there is no excuse, no confusion, and no loss of life Alan I have no time for drink driving, but the point above is that if its 0, you basicly have to be teetotal or never drive. I agree that any drink will impair ability to drive, but having 2 pints 24 hours ago won't, but you would still most likley have a tiny proportion in your system. Also, if you want to go down that route of emlimiating all risk factors totally you can start to say that anyone who has had a previous accident / been stopped speeding / is over a certain age ect is statistically more likely to have an accident and thus should not hold a license. If you go down that route it will never end. I think it's fine as it is, just enforce with zero tolerance. Even half it maybe, but making it 0 is just a little too 'big brother' for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantellissheffield Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 honeslty if they can drink and drive without a thought should they realy own a gun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Guys, it is a myth that a zero limit means drivers can never drink. If zero was the legal limit the police would set a level which allows someone who drank 12 hours ago (or so) to pass the test. A level of say 20mg/ml of blood would be considered 'zero' for a test, allowing someoone who had a glass of wine last night to be considered drink free. More worryingly there is no legal limit and no test for drug driving, save almost virtual incapacity. Do you know how many crashes involving injury also involve a drugged driver? Lets get real - if a zero limit was introduced, self testing kits would become available and anyone who wants to drink would get to know how to enjoy drink and avoid driving with alcohol in their blood. Remember it was once thought 'unreasonable' to introduce a limit of alcohol over which you could be prosecuted? Infringement of personal freedom was quoted, Personal freedom to kill and maim. Lets hope it doesnt happen to 'you'. Edited December 21, 2011 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's not just the courts that is the problem. When I was at school and learning to drive we were told every two minutes at school and on TV, don't drink and drive, don't take drugs etc. Problem arose when people stopped drinking and driving and the numbers caught dropped so they stopped the education programs. What we find now is there are three types of drivers. The older mid 40's upwards hard core drink drivers who don't think it is a problem and will always do it, a middle group from around 25 to early 40's who just won't do it at all and now we are getting more and more under 25's drink driving as it is no longer taught during road safety in school or on the TV so they don't see it as a problem or what it can do. I think that's exactly spot on in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) And there's the over 50's like me who had parents that made sure you knew right from wrong and the consequrnces of doing wrong. My three kids have turned out OK, they aren't perfect but they don't steal from others, drink irresponsibly (none of them drive), use drugs or hurt people. I am saddened by the state of yougsters that live beside me today, I don't blame them, I blame their parent(s) who are too busy getting on with their own lives to take an interest in their children, who don't know or care if 9 year olds are out on the streets at all hours just as long as they aren't at home bothering them. Edit: Having re-read that it appears that I have turned into my mother!! Edited December 21, 2011 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colliwobbles Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Offence - Drunk in charge of a loaded firearm Max penalty imprisonment - One month Max penalty fine - £200 Define "drunk" as they don't actually state a limit like they do with drink driving. There is no definition of drunk as alcohol affects everyone differently, however, if a police Officer decides that you are drunk, then basically you are. As a rule of thumb, if you are unsteady on your feet, slurring your speech excessively, eyes glazed and breath smelling strongly of alcoholic liquor, combined with your behaviour it might give an officer reason to believe that you're drunk. I know there are medical symptoms that have similar characteristics, however, its a call for the officer. You could never have a zero limit for drink drive as certain medications contain alcohol and there are mouth washes that give give a misleading reading to a breathaliser. As someone who unfortunately has dealt with the after effects of too many drunken drivers, if you don't drink you have nothing to worry about. Whilst the Police (where I work) dont target shooters directly, there are too many who will drink to excess and need to be taken off the road. Would you like to be on a peg next to someone who was leathered, let alone let them give you a lift home? Unfortunatley two weeks ago we stopped someone on the way home for a shoot, he passed a breathaliser..just, however, he still had a loaded cartridge in his gun. Food for thought me thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypig Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Just want to hang out a few facts here...... breath alcohol limit 35 microgramms in 100ml breath Blood alcohol limit 80 milligrams 100ml blood Urine alcohol limit 107 milligramms in 100 ml urine. For blood and urine there is a 0 tolerance for the limit...... i.e if you are over you are over. This is to do with the testing procedures and the tolerances built in....it is weighted to the driver. For breath no-one is charged under 40ug per 100ml breath then there is a statutory option of having the breath replaced by a blood specimen you have to be at 51ug before a straight charge!!!! For those on the anti drink drive side this is shameful on behalf of the govt. Drivers have a powerful lobby. The victims voice is not often heard. I for one am in support of a harmonisation of the limits across the EU at 50mg per 100ml blood and the equivelants...... plus a few tweaks of current poliy and procedures. The screening equipment is very accurate and should be taken as evidence. It hads been said that a reduction to 50 would only save a few lives a year. I for one would be happy if it saved my lif or that of mine. There is no excuse for drink driving EVER. I have seen the devastation and i wish i could have the excusors with me to see with their own eyes the aftermath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I've re -read this and it seems sensationalist and shocking so- my apologies - its still a valid comment I think. When I was student, as part of the course, we were given the opportunity to view the effects and consequences of collisions. This lecture was to ensure we knew how to design out collision and severity factors, positioning of lamp columns, the positioning and means of ending barriers, pedestrian visibility through parking controls and a million other things. You were allowed to leave the lecture on collision consequences, but few did. We left with a full understanding of what street furniture does to a human body which collides with it. The most horrific images were from the US, collected by the American Association of State Highways Officials. There were very many bodies, some cut in half, heads removed, both legs cut off above the knee and the single biggest cause of these casualties wasnt design related, it was drink related. As all police and fire officers know, picking up the bits is shocking - a de-humanised corpse with bodyparts missing or a dead, decapitated child. I wanted to show this full horror in a road safety campaign but it was said to be too shocking. Imagine you kill a child through drink driving. Imagine the metal slcing through flesh and bone, crushing limbs to a bloody pulp. Imagine YOU DO THIS, then tell me drink driving is OK, at any level. Its all out there, these are real people we kill ever year, nearly 4000 of them, a proportion relate to drink and more to drugs Grow up and become a responsible adult instead of a selfish, self focussed, pleasure seeker, all you drink drivers. With the respect we shooters have for our quarry, you would think we would have something similar for our fellow humans, ensuring we, at least, were always in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodcock11 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Beating today and for a change we shot through and had lunch in the field between drives. We normally go back to the farm and sit down. We mixed it with the guns and it was quite a boozy do. Sloe gin, ginger wine, Kings Ginger, whisky macs and cans of beer etc. I was driving so only had one very small ginger wine, as did most of the other beaters apart from one or two who lived locally and could walk. It was very tempting as it was freezing cold and the craic was good, but I value my driving licence too much. But I was amazed to watch some of the guns, all of whom were driving, chucking it back like there was no tomorrow! One of the other beaters told me that the local cops were deliberately targeting muddy land rovers full of tweedy blokes on Saturdays at this time of year, for D&D stops. They'd have had a field day with this lot today! Anyone else heard of the police targeting shoot vehicles for breath tests? Most of the posts are sensible - one or two are bizarre 1. The police are not deliberately targeting muddy 4x4s with tweedy chaps in them. This old canard came up last year - specifically to Devon & Cornwall Constabulary and they categorically denied it. 2. No-one who is drunk should be in charge of either a motor car or a firearm - full stop 3. If you are convicted of drink-driving and have firearms in your vehicle, your shotgun or firearms certificate will be revoked and your firearms taken away 4. If you are convicted of drink driving, be aware that it is most likely that your certificate will be revoked as you will be deemed not to be a fit person to hold firearms. It really is as simple as that and if you mix alcohol with driving or shooting, you deserve all the hassle that you will get. You would not be welcome on my shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Most of the posts are sensible - one or two are bizarre 1. The police are not deliberately targeting muddy 4x4s with tweedy chaps in them. This old canard came up last year - specifically to Devon & Cornwall Constabulary and they categorically denied it. 2. No-one who is drunk should be in charge of either a motor car or a firearm - full stop 3. If you are convicted of drink-driving and have firearms in your vehicle, your shotgun or firearms certificate will be revoked and your firearms taken away 4. If you are convicted of drink driving, be aware that it is most likely that your certificate will be revoked as you will be deemed not to be a fit person to hold firearms. It really is as simple as that and if you mix alcohol with driving or shooting, you deserve all the hassle that you will get. You would not be welcome on my shoot. You quoted my OP and went into lecture mode. By "you", I really hope you don't mean me? I opened this thread to prompt discussion. It has a been thought provoking and civilised one, but your post feels a little too personal. I hope I've misread your meaning and that's not what you intended. For the record, I am not for one second condoning drink driving, nor am I suggesting shooters are being singled out or victimised, I fully support ANYONE caught over the limit getting hammered. I was merely reporting what I saw and what I heard. Wag your finger by all means, but not at me. Edited December 22, 2011 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Most of the posts are sensible - one or two are bizarre 1. The police are not deliberately targeting muddy 4x4s with tweedy chaps in them. This old canard came up last year - specifically to Devon & Cornwall Constabulary and they categorically denied it. Deny it they may! I can with out any doubt tell You that they did target, as part of a gang of guns who have travelled through Devon extensively over the last few Years, we were pulled and checked more times than You would beleive, One particular shoot in North Devon, guns were stopped almost weekly. I have no problem at all with being stopped,and sincerely wish all drink drivers were/are caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Happy pig u say no one under 40 mg gets prosecuted. A friend of mine was banned for a year for blowing 37 mg so that's not true. The limit is 35 if your over you get banned. Simples Edited December 22, 2011 by Browning 425 clay hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Happy pig u say no one under 40 mg gets prosecuted. A friend of mine was banned for a year for blowing 37 mg so that's not true. The limit is 35 if your over you get banned. Simples Must have been extenuating circumstances, as anyone who blows less than 40 at a police station is turned loose. I bet he ********ted you, when in reality he was 3x over the limit or something daft like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I don't like to admit this but it was actually ME. It was 10 years ago when I was 18. I had 3 pints of stella over a couple of hours with a meal. Got pulled for a brake light out and the copper smelt the booze and I got banned. They made me do two specimens of breath and they take the lowest reading which was 37 mg. I got a year ban and 100 hours community service. Not proud of what I did and have never done it since. So unfortunately I can testify that it's true, as can my licence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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