demonwolf444 Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Can see the apeal, does anybody use them regularly and properly ie with all the maths, range estimation and all that, i kind of like that sort of stuff and spent the afternoon playing about with the formula. Anybody got any good words to say about them, and the scope you use/setup. Thinking of buying a new mil dot scope, but the only thing im confused about is wether it needs to be on 10x or 20x to be "true" mil dot, also any advice on prefered reticles/ scope choice would be nice, i want to buy a decent bit of kit, and try and use some maths in my shooting ( oh hell i hate my self ), because oddly ive found this applied maths pretty interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Mmmm I would imagine that of the 100% of shooters using mildots only about 30% use them to more than 50% of their potential advantage.Plus(not +)about 50% of the users using them correctly would only ever use them 30% of the time-minus the times when they thought they had used them but hadn't.Added to this complex division of users /non users (thats 30% of the original 50%) are the occasional users who use them correctly-accidently and never spot the sines of their error.If you were to avoid going off on a Tangent regarding this total sum of shooters you would reach the same conclusion as me regarding your post-beggered if I know :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) :lol: Best answer so far! Pretty interesting how it all works and when you see people using them its neat, tbh though i never really have need for them anyway, if the targets too far away its a case of get closer not "guess." however this guy knows what he is doing with mildots. Edited March 12, 2012 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 on air rifles yes, on rimfire and centrefire no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 why not on rimfire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Only really on my FAC Air-rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Yes but I mainly shoot steel targets I use a E.B. Sniper 10x42 which is true mil dot Edited March 12, 2012 by MattF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I use Hawke SR and MAP scopes, so no mildots per se, however I do use the scope markings, had some notable success with them. However you do need to practise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katash Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you want to learn how to correctly use mildots there is a good flash based simulation available here It has classroom lessons on wind estimation, MOA explanations, range tables etc .... There is a few demos available on the site but you have to pay $49 for the full version - Unless you know where to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yes i know at what distances are represented by the mil dots and half mil dots on my MTC, used for HFT and hunting but with both am although i know the distances to reference points, the range when i take the shot is always guessed and i go off that with aiming via mil dots ! But on my .17HMR with a first zero of 50yards and second zero at 100yards i use a scope that just has a dot reticule as its prety much point and shoot flat shooting from 40yards to 110 and 90% of my shots are taken between 60 and 90 yards.So dont feel the need for mill dots or a big ret. and when iluminated its not to bright unlike alot ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Every rifle I has has a Mil Dot scope, 12ft lb right through FAC Air, rimfires and CF. They work for me and yes I use them, but I hardly ever check the range details via the scope these days as I know where the calibres and ammo I use shoots, and I'm pretty good on distance estimation anyway, so you could argue they are not used to their potential, but just because you can, it doesn't mean you have/need to. Frankly, when you know your guns and ammo you can use almost any reticle, I just happen to like the Mil Dots, and the majority are meant to be true at 10x! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Every rifle I has has a Mil Dot scope, 12ft lb right through FAC Air, rimfires and CF. They work for me and yes I use them, but I hardly ever check the range details via the scope these days as I know where the calibres and ammo I use shoots, and I'm pretty good on distance estimation anyway, so you could argue they are not used to their potential, but just because you can, it doesn't mean you have/need to. Frankly, when you know your guns and ammo you can use almost any reticle, I just happen to like the Mil Dots, and the majority are meant to be true at 10x! pretty much where i was at with them tbh! I know where the bullet is in the reticle at most ranges i hunt within. found out the formula to use them at any mag to judge range: Normal equation, Range (yrds) = ~object height(")X 27.77/Object Height in mils (one mildot - dot being 0.2 mils) Adapted equation, ~object height(")X 27.77/Object Height in mils (one mildot - dot being 0.2 mils) X magnification/10 = Range (yrds) eg, (rabbit measuring) 13" X 27.77 / 2.2 (height of rabbit in mildots) X 4 (magnification setting) / 10 = 65.6 yards obviously its not gospel, as youve eatimated the height of a rabbit standing up and also not taken a precise measurement of how many mil dots it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 map pro scopes are good/accurate when used with the hawke software i've just got another should be delivered any day now i want it for some longer range plinking. the 6x44 is ok for hunting but but no good at range as i cant see the holes on my target clear enough, i may sell it as even though i love it for hunting i can't be bothered chopping and changing it all the time. Yes but I mainly shoot steel targets I use a E.B. Sniper 10x42 which is true mil dot what did you pay for it if you dont mind me asking and do you find 10x a bit much for hunting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabs Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 pretty much where i was at with them tbh! I know where the bullet is in the reticle at most ranges i hunt within. found out the formula to use them at any mag to judge range: Normal equation, Range (yrds) = ~object height(")X 27.77/Object Height in mils (one mildot - dot being 0.2 mils) Adapted equation, ~object height(")X 27.77/Object Height in mils (one mildot - dot being 0.2 mils) X magnification/10 = Range (yrds) eg, (rabbit measuring) 13" X 27.77 / 2.2 (height of rabbit in mildots) X 4 (magnification setting) / 10 = 65.6 yards obviously its not gospel, as youve eatimated the height of a rabbit standing up and also not taken a precise measurement of how many mil dots it is. Most scopes are set to true mildot at x10 mag. Don't forget, Mil-Dot range estimation was only ever dreamt up for ranging men sized targets. So at best its not really suitable for rabbit sized targets. Get a rangefinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 The reticle is a Range finder. If you look up what mildot means, it has nothing to do with military which i assume is where you got your "man sized target" idea from. The Mil stands for Milliradian, which is a unit of measurement, look it up The reticle is just as usefull for judgeing deer/ man ranges as it is for judgeing rabbit ranges. Its a formula, the accuracy of the inputs determines the accuracy of the output. forexample we can estimate the rabbits height and put it in the formula and compare it to the actual hieght and see how it affects the output: estimate - 10" x 27.77 / 1.6 x 4 / 10 = 69 yards Actual - 13" x 27.77 / 1.6 x 4 / 10 = = 90 yards You can see by entering the hieght incorrectly by just three inches in this instance has effected the estimation by 20 yards, which would seriously affect your POI resulting in an inhumane shot. Problem is is that in the field there is allot of variance between sizes or rabbits or deer, so using this system would be inneffetive without constant practice. Having spent the last two days trying to get my head round mildots, i think ( for me at least ) it would be fun to stick known sized targets at different ranges and just pick them off by calculating the ranges then working out the correct hold over in mils, for me at least it would add a new dimension to target shooting. however it doesnt really have any place in the field, as, as i have shown slight in accuracys can affect the system to much, resulting in innaccurate shots, in any case most my hunting takes place at less than 40 yards to ensure accuracy and precision, and there fore the system is superfluous to requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabs Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) The reticle is a Range finder. If you look up what mildot means, it has nothing to do with military which i assume is where you got your "man sized target" idea from. The Mil stands for Milliradian, which is a unit of measurement, look it up The reticle is just as usefull for judgeing deer/ man ranges as it is for judgeing rabbit ranges. Its a formula, the accuracy of the inputs determines the accuracy of the output. forexample we can estimate the rabbits height and put it in the formula and compare it to the actual hieght and see how it affects the output: estimate - 10" x 27.77 / 1.6 x 4 / 10 = 69 yards Actual - 13" x 27.77 / 1.6 x 4 / 10 = = 90 yards You can see by entering the hieght incorrectly by just three inches in this instance has effected the estimation by 20 yards, which would seriously affect your POI resulting in an inhumane shot. Problem is is that in the field there is allot of variance between sizes or rabbits or deer, so using this system would be inneffetive without constant practice. Having spent the last two days trying to get my head round mildots, i think ( for me at least ) it would be fun to stick known sized targets at different ranges and just pick them off by calculating the ranges then working out the correct hold over in mils, for me at least it would add a new dimension to target shooting. however it doesnt really have any place in the field, as, as i have shown slight in accuracys can affect the system to much, resulting in innaccurate shots, in any case most my hunting takes place at less than 40 yards to ensure accuracy and precision, and there fore the system is superfluous to requirements. :lol: :lol: No, I most certainly didn't think 'Mil-Dot, came from the word 'Military' :lol: But the 'Mildot' became common use BECAUSE of the military use of it for rangefinding. Horses, men, tanks etc. Large objects are ranged reasonably effectively. Small little bunnies and the math starts to fail to give precise enough data for our types of rifles. Edit- Rangefinding a horse or man doesn't need to be as accurate as rangefinding a rabbit. You only need to place a round anywhere on a horse/man/tank etc for it to be effective(to a point). A rabbit you need to be spot on. The margin of error is too great rangefinding small animals. And yes, I too have been down that road, trying to rangefind rabbits with it. Just doesn't work well. Edited March 13, 2012 by pabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Small little bunnies and the math starts to fail to give precise enough data for our types of rifles. Agree'd. Innacuracys of 20 yards probably dont make as much difference with high powered CF rounds as they do with air rifles. when it comes to measureing mad sized targets it is equally as imoprtant to be accurate, however you have more chance of hitting your taget as it is bigger, i know little of CF rounds but would 200 yards make enough difference on POI? eg - estimates height of a man 5ft6 66 x 27.77 / 0.5 x 4 / 10 = 1466 yards actual height is 6ft2 74 x 27.77 / 0.5 x 4 / 10 = 1643 yards, However if your aiming for the head your probably still going to it the target somewhere. im not doubting that when it comes to range finding with air rifles a range finder is best, but in theory you can get a perfect measurement when you know all figures and values precisely, which is why i would confine any attempts to use the system to target shooting where all these values can be known. ** edit just seen your edit! yes pretty much what ive decided, your about right Edited March 13, 2012 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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