robborobbo Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I currently hold a SGC & applied recently for the co - terminus initial FEC + SGC renewal. Home visit complete along with refrence checks + land check complete, no issues. I was informed by the FEO at the start of this week that my firearms cert has been passes & should be singed off by the end of the week. Received a telephone today from the FEO asking that I will require to show my competency with a firearm by having a current firearms cert holder vouch for me after seeing me handle a shoot a rifle safely before the certificate will be issued. Unfortunately for me I do not know anyone who shoots rifles, I checked with the BASC on this & they say this request is not a legal requirement and is a local adaptation of the home office guidance for firearms document. I called about tonight and a friend of a friend has agreed to take me shooting next week and vouch for me. Thought's guys? Should I make a issue out of this or burry my head & do what is asked? ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I currently hold a SGC & applied recently for the co - terminus initial FEC + SGC renewal. Home visit complete along with refrence checks + land check complete, no issues. I was informed by the FEO at the start of this week that my firearms cert has been passes & should be singed off by the end of the week. Received a telephone today from the FEO asking that I will require to show my competency with a firearm by having a current firearms cert holder vouch for me after seeing me handle a shoot a rifle safely before the certificate will be issued. Unfortunately for me I do not know anyone who shoots rifles, I checked with the BASC on this & they say this request is not a legal requirement and is a local adaptation of the home office guidance for firearms document. I called about tonight and a friend of a friend has agreed to take me shooting next week and vouch for me. Thought's guys? Should I make a issue out of this or burry my head & do what is asked? ATB No wonder they can't handle the workloads when they are creating their own extra layers of bureaucracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 It's certainly not uncommon. Personally I think you should forget about it, yes it's an inconvenience but is it really a bad thing? You might not need it but it does stop someone with no knowledge of rifles getting a certificate and then walking round with a loaded gun and shooting pigeons in trees etc because they don't know any better. They might not be able to force you to do it legally but it certainly isn't worth kicking up a fuss over it, especially as you seem to be getting it sorted OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I currently hold a SGC & applied recently for the co - terminus initial FEC + SGC renewal. Home visit complete along with refrence checks + land check complete, no issues. I was informed by the FEO at the start of this week that my firearms cert has been passes & should be singed off by the end of the week. Received a telephone today from the FEO asking that I will require to show my competency with a firearm by having a current firearms cert holder vouch for me after seeing me handle a shoot a rifle safely before the certificate will be issued. Unfortunately for me I do not know anyone who shoots rifles, I checked with the BASC on this & they say this request is not a legal requirement and is a local adaptation of the home office guidance for firearms document. I called about tonight and a friend of a friend has agreed to take me shooting next week and vouch for me. Thought's guys? Should I make a issue out of this or burry my head & do what is asked? ATB Section 27(1)(a) of the 1968 Act (as amended) states that: "A firearm certificate shall be granted where the Chief Officer of Police is satisfied that: a) the applicant is fit to be entrusted with a firearm to which Section 1 of this Act applies, and B) is not a person prohibited by this Act from possessing such a firearm." There are no rules decieding how the Chief Officer of Police comes to this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 This is cropping up more and more - easiest way around this is to join a local club and gain the SCC via the club - problem sorted. (SCC - Shooting competency certificate - these are free and are simply a card to allow you to shoot various types of guns on MOD ranges) A club will also offer you somewhere to zero and practice. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Unfortunately for me I do not know anyone who shoots rifles, I checked with the BASC on this & they say this request is not a legal requirement and is a local adaptation of the home office guidance for firearms document. Get back onto to BASC then & ask them to phone the FLD & tell them that.......don't hold your breath on it though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robborobbo Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 This is cropping up more and more - easiest way around this is to join a local club and gain the SCC via the club - problem sorted. (SCC - Shooting competency certificate - these are free and are simply a card to allow you to shoot various types of guns on MOD ranges) A club will also offer you somewhere to zero and practice. Mike How long do you have to be a member for before you ate entitled to apply for a certificate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) How long do you have to be a member for before you ate entitled to apply for a certificate? Hang in there bud, someone local will see this thread before long and be willing to take up an offer to shoot your land with you for one trip only - or more if you wish. It's basically a way saving the feo's butt if someone can provide a written testament that you have at least some experience of shooting in the field and have had some experienced guidance. It's no big deal and it may find you a good shooting mate. You might get a better response if you edit the original post title to something like "Shooting offered for a Mentor near Renfrewshire" Edited April 13, 2012 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 A friend of mine who lives in Leeds has just had his SGC & FAC renewed. The Ploice have requested that he store his cabinet keys in a small safe covered by a combination lock. The idea being that his wife could find the cabinet keys and then gain access to his guns. This is a new one on me, but I can follow the process; it just seems a bit OTT. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 A friend of mine who lives in Leeds has just had his SGC & FAC renewed. The Ploice have requested that he store his cabinet keys in a small safe covered by a combination lock. The idea being that his wife could find the cabinet keys and then gain access to his guns. This is a new one on me, but I can follow the process; it just seems a bit OTT. webber If I am reading that right the police are saying that the chap should get a combination locked safe, store his cabinet keys in it and then give his wife the combination of the safe so that she could access the keys to his gun cabinet. Surely that idea is against all of the H.O. Guidelines as it would be the equivilent of allowing a non FAC holder access to your guns and ammunition! Whatever next, get a spare set of cabinet keys cut for the wife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 If I am reading that right the police are saying that the chap should get a combination locked safe, store his cabinet keys in it and then give his wife the combination of the safe so that she could access the keys to his gun cabinet. Surely that idea is against all of the H.O. Guidelines as it would be the equivilent of allowing a non FAC holder access to your guns and ammunition! Whatever next, get a spare set of cabinet keys cut for the wife? No..."idea being that his wife could find keys" It's so they are locked away and only he knows the combination,rather than hiding them and her finding the keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 If I am reading that right the police are saying that the chap should get a combination locked safe, store his cabinet keys in it and then give his wife the combination of the safe so that she could access the keys to his gun cabinet. Surely that idea is against all of the H.O. Guidelines as it would be the equivilent of allowing a non FAC holder access to your guns and ammunition! Whatever next, get a spare set of cabinet keys cut for the wife? No, the complete opposite. He should store his keys in a combo locked safe to which his wife does not have the combination. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) No, the complete opposite. He should store his keys in a combo locked safe to which his wife does not have the combination. webber Ah, I see! So it's a bit of a pointless operation unless his wife (Or any other "intruder" to his home) is a lock picker. I should add that I am not trying to be awkward here, it just doesn't make sence or tie in with what we are all told about not allowing anyone else access to the keys for our gun cabinets! Edited April 13, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ah, I see! So it's a bit of a pointless operation unless his wife (Or any other "intruder" to his home) is a lock picker. I should add that I am not trying to be awkward here, it just doesn't make sence or tie in with what we are all told about not allowing anyone else access to the keys for our gun cabinets! No, I think you've misunderstood. What they must be concerned about is him having the keys round the house somewhere (i.e he can't keep them on his person 24 hours a day with his wife around) so by putting them in a combination cabinet she can't access them without the combination, which only he needs to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 No, I think you've misunderstood. What they must be concerned about is him having the keys round the house somewhere (i.e he can't keep them on his person 24 hours a day with his wife around) so by putting them in a combination cabinet she can't access them without the combination, which only he needs to know. OK thats a great idea but it would take my other half far less time to guess the combination i used than find my keys..... Unless his wife has a violent criminal past or has recently been convicted of a violent crime etc I don't see how there is any security benefit, what does he do with the spare keys? IT does seems as tho there are more and more policies being added in at local levels for no good reason. I would try and get BASC to squash the request. Otherwise your into to the whole mess of DSC and none compulsory training at request of FLM. If compulsory training is required then it should be err compulsory......Not at the whim of FLM/FEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 No, I think you've misunderstood. What they must be concerned about is him having the keys round the house somewhere (i.e he can't keep them on his person 24 hours a day with his wife around) so by putting them in a combination cabinet she can't access them without the combination, which only he needs to know. Bingo. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robborobbo Posted April 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Bingo. webber How far does it go honestly? Has there been a lot of firearms issues requiring these added security measures? Edited April 13, 2012 by robborobbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Do you then need a further locking cabinet to keep the piece of paper with the combination written on nice and safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome of the Woods Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 My mate in Selby just had his FAC granted, no SGC. His ticket is open for .22lr 17hmr and FAC air, he has no experience of firearms at all. He questioned his FEO and was told if they consider you safe enough to have the FAC, you are are safe to know where to to shoot! Just another example of the postcode lottery we all face :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Do you then need a further locking cabinet to keep the piece of paper with the combination written on nice and safe If you follow this to its logical conclusion(but if you do,there can't a conclusion!) then I suppose the answer must be yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ging125 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I must have got the same FEO saying about the combination cabinet, he was only making a suggestion when he visited me!! Basically he said if your wife found out something about u and she didn't like it, she could potentially access ur guns and use them in anger. Eg adultery. It was a suggestion not a requirement! It is a fair point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I must have got the same FEO saying about the combination cabinet, he was only making a suggestion when he visited me!! Basically he said if your wife found out something about u and she didn't like it, she could potentially access ur guns and use them in anger. Eg adultery. It was a suggestion not a requirement! It is a fair point! Possibly because it happenned in Argyll oh thats right the guy was a cop and his wife shot him with his own gun oops :yp: as for the FAC if he's competant with a shotgun (A firearm) the only differance is the extended range and presumably thats why he wants a rifle ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bry-M Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The idea behind having a double lock 7 lever cabinet that's got covered hinges etc is to keep a thief out. By putting the keys in a less secure safe, surely it defeats the object! May as well put the guns directly in a combination safe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beesley121 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) just my opinion but you cant blame these guys. Yes sometimes a bit OTT, but at he end of the day, if your a responsible person, who geniunely wants a gun for sport, then a little bit of give an take on both sides is to be expected with regards to storing the gun cabinet key in a combination, i think is a good idea. We are told a cert holders that no one else must have access to the gun cabinet. Fair enough!! taking the key with me everywhere is just asking for me to lose it. Like many others, i have a safe place that i store this. After holding my cert for nearly 10 years, i have had that many different hiding places ive lost count but i can guarante my wife knows most of them. You cant hide something for 10 years and never be seen hiding it there in the first place. I regulary go shooting with my son. He is 12 years old now, shooting since he was 7. He is a good lad (every parent says that) but he too probably knows where my key is!! teenage years are unpredictable and even though he is sensible and knows only too well what damage a gun can do, it doesnt stop him having a 'lapse' and deciding to maybe show off to his mates for instance at least if he knows where the key is, he still cant get too it..................... I know someone who used to have shotguns!! came home one day to find his wife had taken her own life with one of his guns that he had 'locked' away. A very sad story but it could have been much worse say if she had shot someone else instead Edited April 13, 2012 by beesley121 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Just a small but important note to anyone getting a small combination safe to keep their cabinet keys - be careful what you buy. This came up in a thread some time ago, most of these safes are a joke as one good tap in the right place opens them easily (search on Youtube to see how easy they can be). Putting the cabinet keys and other valuables in them can be asking for trouble as you're putting them all together where a thief will look and easily access them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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