notsosureshot Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hi all, Havent posted here in a while, I hope I am still welcome I have an interesting problem and I thought maybe someone here would be able to offer a bit of advice. I shoot a small permission of around 7 acres for rabbits. I can find no active warren on the property although I have seen active warrens in the adjacent fields, on both the north and south of the property. I think it is safe to assume that the rabbits visit the permission just at meal times as the grass is in astonishing condition and lots of large bushes, shrubs and trees litter the land, providing perfect cover. As a result, I made enquiries as to the possibility of tackling the rabbit population from a different angle, namely the adjoining fields, which are large enough for the use of a rifle, whereas the permission I have currently, is not suitable for even FAC air. The result of the enquiry by the landowner of my permission, was that the tenant farmer is absolutely overrun on his entire lease with rabbits. However, there is a clause in the lease which stipulates that there is to be no shooting on the land. No wonder then, that the rabbit population is out of control. Enquiries will be made to the landowner directly, although I cannot help but think that the holder of a lease and/or landowner of an agricultural holding must have some responsibility when it comes to ensuring that vermin are not allowed to breed to the extent where they leave the land and begin to damage adjoining properties. Has anyone come across a similar situation? If the landowner comes back with a "no", I really am not sure what I can do other than plod on with the .410. The owner of my permission is rather exasperated as you can imagine. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 how can 7 acres not be suitable for an air rifle? You should remind your land owners that they have a legal responsibility to control rabbits, a statute in law. as part of the 1947 Agriculture Act and the 1954 Pests Act. I would be surprised if any tenancy agreement could legally control the use of safe measures to control vermin that are stipulated in law. The problem is that there is now no recourse if your neighbour decided not to control them. an unenforced law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) Hi all, Havent posted here in a while, I hope I am still welcome I have an interesting problem and I thought maybe someone here would be able to offer a bit of advice. I shoot a small permission of around 7 acres for rabbits. I can find no active warren on the property although I have seen active warrens in the adjacent fields, on both the north and south of the property. I think it is safe to assume that the rabbits visit the permission just at meal times as the grass is in astonishing condition and lots of large bushes, shrubs and trees litter the land, providing perfect cover. As a result, I made enquiries as to the possibility of tackling the rabbit population from a different angle, namely the adjoining fields, which are large enough for the use of a rifle, whereas the permission I have currently, is not suitable for even FAC air. The result of the enquiry by the landowner of my permission, was that the tenant farmer is absolutely overrun on his entire lease with rabbits. However, there is a clause in the lease which stipulates that there is to be no shooting on the land. No wonder then, that the rabbit population is out of control. Enquiries will be made to the landowner directly, although I cannot help but think that the holder of a lease and/or landowner of an agricultural holding must have some responsibility when it comes to ensuring that vermin are not allowed to breed to the extent where they leave the land and begin to damage adjoining properties. Has anyone come across a similar situation? If the landowner comes back with a "no", I really am not sure what I can do other than plod on with the .410. The owner of my permission is rather exasperated as you can imagine. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers. I'm pretty sure that you're correct. Certainly, a tennant has the right to control vermin and also he or the landowner - not certain which, but think it's the former - has a legal obligation to do so for the reason you gave. Whether the tennant is free to choose by what method he does so, I know not. One for BASC perhaps! Edit: Bewsher wasn't there when I started, the better answer! Edited May 15, 2012 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerSim Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Sounds like a novel one to me. A duty in law prevented by the tenancy agreement... Presuming the tenant farmer is a member of the NFU, he should get in touch with their advice people, and ask them to get involved - they can be blooming brilliant! PM me if you want/need the number or contact details. ATB Sim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted May 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 how can 7 acres not be suitable for an air rifle? You should remind your land owners that they have a legal responsibility to control rabbits, a statute in law. as part of the 1947 Agriculture Act and the 1954 Pests Act. I would be surprised if any tenancy agreement could legally control the use of safe measures to control vermin that are stipulated in law. The problem is that there is now no recourse if your neighbour decided not to control them. an unenforced law 7 acres is fine for a 12ft/lb air rifle and in this case, in my assessment, a moderated .410 (proximity of live stock). The issue is really that it is very hard to stalk the rabbits on this property and where they mainly tend to congregate is not safe to shoot, so they really need to be tackled at source, so to speak. Thanks for the input although I'm really not sure whether a lease clause can prevent shooting. Might indeed be one for the BASC team. Thanks fellas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hi all, Havent posted here in a while, I hope I am still welcome I have an interesting problem and I thought maybe someone here would be able to offer a bit of advice. I shoot a small permission of around 7 acres for rabbits. I can find no active warren on the property although I have seen active warrens in the adjacent fields, on both the north and south of the property. I think it is safe to assume that the rabbits visit the permission just at meal times as the grass is in astonishing condition and lots of large bushes, shrubs and trees litter the land, providing perfect cover. As a result, I made enquiries as to the possibility of tackling the rabbit population from a different angle, namely the adjoining fields, which are large enough for the use of a rifle, whereas the permission I have currently, is not suitable for even FAC air. The result of the enquiry by the landowner of my permission, was that the tenant farmer is absolutely overrun on his entire lease with rabbits. However, there is a clause in the lease which stipulates that there is to be no shooting on the land. No wonder then, that the rabbit population is out of control. Enquiries will be made to the landowner directly, although I cannot help but think that the holder of a lease and/or landowner of an agricultural holding must have some responsibility when it comes to ensuring that vermin are not allowed to breed to the extent where they leave the land and begin to damage adjoining properties. Has anyone come across a similar situation? If the landowner comes back with a "no", I really am not sure what I can do other than plod on with the .410. The owner of my permission is rather exasperated as you can imagine. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers. Buy a few rabbit traps....they work 24/7 follow the regs about traps. Also you will end up with very clean killed rabbits, so find a good outlet for them and you will be surprised on how much you will pocket... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Just had a look at Fair Game. "Failure to fulfill his obligations may lead to the occupier being prosecuted or the work carried out at his expense. The occupier's right to kill rabbits is only restricted by the Ground Game Act 1880", (which everyone appears to ignore anyway). It looks, therefore, that the "no shooting" condition is not worth owt. Pointing this lot out to the landowner may be the way ahead. Fill your boots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 2 words..... Long Net Set up outside your rough ground on the fields between your rough permission and their little houses after dark when they are in the rough. Use usual long net tricks (wind, moonlight, sound, how to run them home etc) and fill-yer-boots. No shooting issues breached. Good numbers quickly From what you have said, you might need a helper to run them back and carry them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 2 words....High Seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Defo long net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Defo long net As the OP has an immediate problem, does this mean that even if you manage to aquire said net possession makes you instantly competent to use it? Still, I suppose frightening the little devils into the next county does have a degree of merit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 If what you say is correct the lease stipulates "no shooting". That doesn't mean trapping, snaring, netting are ruled out too. To satisfy the laws regarding pest control there are plenty of other methods by which it can be achieved. Basically what I'm saying is that the pest control law doesn't overule the no shooting clause. Trapping and netting are probably the way forward. Would it be possible to make a back stop out of straw bales in order to use a rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted May 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) Hello all and many thanks for the wide variety of suggestions. Some of the points raised it is fair to say I had already considered although in my intial post, whilst not wanting to over simplify, I did not want to write a post so long and with so much detail that people would feel "put out" when asked to read it. The old "tl;dr" thing. Elevated shooting postions and artificial backstops were considered but are impractical for several reasons which are probably too in depth to mention here. I have discussed the matter with the local FEO at length with appropriate supporting information. From the word go, when I accepted the permission, my judgement was that it was unsuitable for rifles and the FEO reinforced my decision. The exercise was mainly to benefit the landowner I have to say, as it was a second opinion on my "no rifles" approach. Indeed, as a fairly new hunter, it was also personally reassuring to find the FEO's thoughts echoed my own and I found them perfectly reasonable, a good sign for the future. Trapping, netting and ferreting were also methods I considered, although they are not something which I can personally undertake as I have neither the experience nor the desire to learn which I have made clear to the landowner. One point I will raise however, is that if the "no shooting" covenant is in place due to the landowner being an anti, then short of using humane traps (not really an option for a pest species due to relocation issues), I cannot see why anyone would favour one method of disposal over another. I will put that view forward next time I am there. Every option ends with a dead rabbit and its important the landowner understands that and understands their responsibility under the Acts mentioned. I seem to be getting the hang of the whole thing anyway which feels pretty good personally. These sorts of issues are not something you initially expect when you get into hunting and you kind of need to learn on the "hop", pardon the pun. I am grateful to all of you for your input and hopefully we will receive a positive reply from the landowner in due course so I can really make a dent in numbers. One question I would like to ask. When using lethal traps, what is the actual method by which the rabbit meets its end? Could I also ask the same question with regards to netting and using ferrets? I am assuming that the rabbit is clubbed or has its neck broken? Just in case I am asked, IS there a humane method? I believe there is not, but I would like to be able to say that categorically, there is not. Edited May 15, 2012 by notsosureshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 the humane method IS shooting.... not sure it is legal to trap rabbits and relocate them, doubt any other farmer would thank you. if it is an "anti" reason then I doubt he will be open to long netting snares, traps etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 One question I would like to ask. When using lethal traps, what is the actual method by which the rabbit meets its end? Could I also ask the same question with regards to netting and using ferrets? I am assuming that the rabbit is clubbed or has its neck broken? Just in case I am asked, IS there a humane method? I believe there is not, but I would like to be able to say that categorically, there is not. Chin it - Broken neck - very quick/humane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 the landowner can't be that exasperated or they would rabbit fence it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 the humane method IS shooting.... not sure it is legal to trap rabbits and relocate them, doubt any other farmer would thank you. if it is an "anti" reason then I doubt he will be open to long netting snares, traps etc Guess I should have said non lethal rather than humane. I personally think shooting is the most humane method and frankly, you're totally right about relocating them, its just absolutely not practical. Its well worth getting opinions though as its no good just saying what I think and expecting people to take it as gospel. Thanks to all of you, I'll put forward the options and see what kind of response comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 What about what I think might be called 'drop traps' inside your permission boundary. I think (I've seen on youtube) they work by having some form of fencing/barrier that blocks the rabbits and forces them to pass through at a given point or points over a drop trap which is buried and locked initially till bunnies get used to passing that way, then the trap is activated and as bunny passes over/through the trap, the weight drops the flap and rabbit falls into the secure 'captured' area. You then come along and empty the trap, neck the rabbits and bob's yer uncle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 I would go for the long net approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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