Guns on trains

[JonathanL]

Im not spineless. Its called "being a grown up!" Also, just because its know as public transport, does not mean its owned by the public. The British railway is owned by private companys. They are not subsidised in large by the tax payer, its a small perccentage. Do i really need to go on about how boring my job is?

 

They are subsidised in various ways and to various extents. The only reason they still exist is because the tax-payer has ploughed billions and billions of pounds worth of subsidies into them over previous decades and doubtless will be again at such time as the operating companies run them into the ground or decide they can't make money out of them.

 

Moreover, they were only ever built in the first place because Parliament compulsorily purchased vast tracts of lands so that the public could travel freely around for the benefit of the country as a whole. The railways were most certainly not built purely at the behest of private companies or individuals and could never have been.

 

Although under 'private' operation it is, in fact, simply a licence to print money through the operation of a monopoly; you or I cannot decide to open an alternitive to the East Coast Mail line regardless of whether we may be able afford it or not. This being the case they have a moral duty (and probably a legal one) to carry anyone at all as long as what they are doing or carrying uis legal and safe.

 

As to conditions of carriage; I would suspect that of you actually looked there probably isn't any restriction on the carriage of firearms on trains and, even if there were, I would fancy that you could probably get them rules as unlawful. A monoloply cannot simplyu make up rules because it doesn;t like something. If there is a genuine danger then that is one thing but there simply is no public danger, per-se, in someone carrying a firearm on a train, bus, boat or any other form of public transport. The possible exception is that of aircraft and in that case it is actually a criminal offence to carry a firearm in the passenger compartment of an aircraft.

 

J,

[JonathanL]

Shell also had an enviable rifle range under their building in times gone by...

 

Virtually all government buildings of any size had a range in them at one point.

 

J.

[mr smith]

As to conditions of carriage; I would suspect that of you actually looked there probably isn't any restriction on the carriage of firearms on trains and, even if there were, I would fancy that you could probably get them rules as unlawful. A monoloply cannot simplyu make up rules because it doesn;t like something. If there is a genuine danger then that is one thing but there simply is no public danger, per-se, in someone carrying a firearm on a train, bus, boat or any other form of public transport. The possible exception is that of aircraft and in that case it is actually a criminal offence to carry a firearm in the passenger compartment of an aircraft.

 

J,

 

As i put above read page 25 of the National conditions of carriage,there are indeed restrictions on firearms amongst other things.Companies can have less restrictive rules if they want,despite the public bit the trains are the property of some private company and can have a reasonable wether you agree or not rules as to what they carry.

[JonathanL]

As i put above read page 25 of the National conditions of carriage,there are indeed restrictions on firearms amongst other things.Companies can have less restrictive rules if they want,despite the public bit the trains are the property of some private company and can have a reasonable wether you agree or not rules as to what they carry.

 

Can you cut and paste what it says as my PDF viewer isn't working so I can't click links to PDF's?

 

J.

[mr smith]

ITEM-UNLOADED GUNS

PERMITTED-NO

CONDITIONS-MAY BE SUBJECT TO INDIVIDUAL TRAIN COMPANY DISPENSATION

 

ITEM-LOADED GUNS

PERMITTED-NO

 

 

The second one is not really surprising.Other items not allowed are canoes,surfboards,sailboards,also though reality doesn't meet the CofC golf clubs,skis and ski boards are only meant to be carried if there is room in the guards van and there's not many of these nowadays.

 

 

Again be discrete and it's highly likely the staff won't know the rules anyway.

Edited May 31, 2012 by mr smith

[JonathanL]

ITEM-UNLOADED GUNS

PERMITTED-NO

CONDITIONS-MAY BE SUBJECT TO INDIVIDUAL TRAIN COMPANY DISPENSATION

 

ITEM-LOADED GUNS

PERMITTED-NO

 

 

The second one is not really surprising.Other items not allowed are canoes,surfboards,sailboards,also though reality doesn't meet the CofC golf clubs,skis and ski boards are only meant to be carried if there is room in the guards van and there's not many of these nowadays.

 

 

Again be discrete and it's highly likely the staff won't know the rules anyway.

 

Well, I can see why the others on the list aren't allowed as there are senible safety considerations relating to them - ie: they are large/bulky. Guns aren't, generally speaking. There would sem to be no sensible reason to prevent firearms being carried on trains. That being the case the rule would appear to be the result of a mistake as to the potential danger of firearms on trains or....prejudice.

 

J.

[mr smith]

Well, I can see why the others on the list aren't allowed as there are senible safety considerations relating to them - ie: they are large/bulky. Guns aren't, generally speaking. There would sem to be no sensible reason to prevent firearms being carried on trains. That being the case the rule would appear to be the result of a mistake as to the potential danger of firearms on trains or....prejudice.

 

J.

 

 

Wether sensible or not and lets face we're biased as well them's are the rules,which are only really a problem if the staff know them.

[welshwarrior]

There was a fuss after those guy took their guns on the tube at stockwell station in 2005 but they where following that Brazlian chap

[Guest Mr Pieman]

Under the COC, unloaded shotguns and firearms are allowed, ammunition is not (classed as explosives).

 

However, the Conditions of Carriage allow the train companies to set their own rules relating to carrying guns. Similar to airlines, some allow it and some don't. Once you know the train company you wish to use, give them a call and ask if they allow it.

[MM]

Well, I can see why the others on the list aren't allowed as there are senible safety considerations relating to them - ie: they are large/bulky. Guns aren't, generally speaking. There would sem to be no sensible reason to prevent firearms being carried on trains. That being the case the rule would appear to be the result of a mistake as to the potential danger of firearms on trains or....prejudice.

 

J.

#

 

 

 

You really wont have it will you. Myself, Mr Smith and a couple of others on here work for train companys, and what we are telling you is fact. There is a very sensible reason guns are not allowed to be carried by most firms. What is the gun was stolen from you? what if some local idiots decided they wanted it? are you really going to stop them? I doubt it. What if you forget its there, and leave it on the train? The job stops, and you get your collar felt. Do you need any more? Personaly, i think its a good idea they are not allowed. Then again, im a liberal left-wing anti.

[Paul T]

Interesting one this.

 

Assuming you break the gun down, carry it discreetly etc would I take it on a train?

 

From my home station to another country location, yes - I wouldn't batt an eyelid.

 

From my home station to a large city (or even via a large city) e.g. London, Manchester, Leeds etc - then it's a definite no.

 

It's all a question of a risk of something happening, and the chances of loss/mishap/discovery are infinitely greater in a bustling city station.

 

I certainly wouldn't like to explain to my FEO how I managed to 'lose' a shotgun in a major city!

 

As with most things, be sensible

[Archie-fox]

If it were just a shotgun, break it down into a sports bag, who would know?

 

i used to do that..

[Vince Green]

I still actually think the battered guitar case is a much better solution. What nobody sees, nobody bothers about.

[JonathanL]

You really wont have it will you. Myself, Mr Smith and a couple of others on here work for train companys, and what we are telling you is fact.

 

I'm not saying it isn't.

 

There is a very sensible reason guns are not allowed to be carried by most firms. What is the gun was stolen from you? what if some local idiots decided they wanted it?

 

So? This could happen anywhere. If you walked somewhere with the gun the same could happen. Or, are you implying that trains are inherently more dangerous in this respect than otgher places or modes of transport? Surely the train companies should be doing more to stop the local idiots using their services rather than people who have been police checked to Mars and back?

 

Anything could get stolen - what does it have to do with the train operator?

 

What if you forget its there, and leave it on the train? The job stops, and you get your collar felt.

 

Again, what has it got to do with the train company? It's not their fault if you lose it.

 

Do you need any more? Personaly, i think its a good idea they are not allowed. Then again, im a liberal left-wing anti.

 

None of these are good reasons why train companies do not allow the carriage of firearms. They are merely excuses. None of the above reasons afects the train operating company at all. Tains are public transport. The train companies exist because the public (through Parliament) allow them to for the public benefit and because the public keep bailing them out when they screw things up.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Interesting one this.

 

Assuming you break the gun down, carry it discreetly etc would I take it on a train?

 

From my home station to another country location, yes - I wouldn't batt an eyelid.

 

From my home station to a large city (or even via a large city) e.g. London, Manchester, Leeds etc - then it's a definite no.

 

It's all a question of a risk of something happening, and the chances of loss/mishap/discovery are infinitely greater in a bustling city station.

 

I certainly wouldn't like to explain to my FEO how I managed to 'lose' a shotgun in a major city!

 

As with most things, be sensible

 

I disagree. I used to live in a city centre. There was a Metro station 150 yards from where I live and my gun club was about the same distance from a metro station at the other end. If I had no car then I wouldn't be able to shoot according to your reasoning.

 

If the cities are overrun with yobs out to steal guns (which I don't think they are) then it's not our fault. If the police don't want guns to get stolen then they should do a better job of locking up the chavs and general scum so that we can pursue our perfectly safe and lawful business in peace.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

I still actually think the battered guitar case is a much better solution. What nobody sees, nobody bothers about.

 

Unless some smack head decides he can sell the guitar for a tenner for his next fix. Perhaps, though, he might think twice anbout stealing a gun - lots of jail time in that.

 

J.

[Blunderbuss]

I travel by train a lot. I don't currently travel with guns, but if I needed to I would do it without batting an eyelid. Broken down, in an anonymous nondescript sports bag, in the luggage rack directly above my seat where I can see it. I'm NOT going to lose it or leave it on the train because I'm a grown up. In the highly unlikely event I'm mugged and it's stolen, then despite what some on here seem to think - I am simply the victim of a crime, which could happen anywhere and WHICH ISN'T MY FAULT. I'm not going to sit cowering in the house and never go shooting on the off chance this might happen.

 

It's definitely not against the law, though I accept it might be against some operating companies T&Cs. So what? They're never going to know, and even if they do what can they do bar ask you to leave the train? Who are they to tell me I can't travel with my own property, when going about my lawful business? I would even consider legally challenging such a discriminatory rule if they pushed it.

 

It's sad that some people seem so meek and scared of their own shadows :(

Edited June 4, 2012 by Blunderbuss

[Thunderbird]

I travel by train a lot. I don't currently travel with guns, but if I needed to I would do it without batting an eyelid. Broken down, in an anonymous nondescript sports bag, in the luggage rack directly above my seat where I can see it. I'm NOT going to lose it or leave it on the train because I'm a grown up. In the highly unlikely event I'm mugged and it's stolen, then despite what some on here seem to think - I am simply the victim of a crime, which could happen anywhere and WHICH ISN'T MY FAULT. I'm not going to sit cowering in the house and never go shooting on the off chance this might happen.

 

It's definitely not against the law, though I accept it might be against some operating companies T&Cs. So what? They're never going to know, and even if they do what can they do bar ask you to leave the train? Who are they to tell me I can't travel with my own property, when going about my lawful business? I would even consider legally challenging such a discriminatory rule if they pushed it.

 

It's sad that some people seem so meek and scared of their own shadows :(

 

Well said

[Mr_Logic]

Yep!

[RED BEARD]

I travel by train a lot. I don't currently travel with guns, but if I needed to I would do it without batting an eyelid. Broken down, in an anonymous nondescript sports bag, in the luggage rack directly above my seat where I can see it. I'm NOT going to lose it or leave it on the train because I'm a grown up. In the highly unlikely event I'm mugged and it's stolen, then despite what some on here seem to think - I am simply the victim of a crime, which could happen anywhere and WHICH ISN'T MY FAULT. I'm not going to sit cowering in the house and never go shooting on the off chance this might happen.

 

It's definitely not against the law, though I accept it might be against some operating companies T&Cs. So what? They're never going to know, and even if they do what can they do bar ask you to leave the train? Who are they to tell me I can't travel with my own property, when going about my lawful business? I would even consider legally challenging such a discriminatory rule if they pushed it.

 

It's sad that some people seem so meek and scared of their own shadows :(

your spot on there

[JonathanL]

I travel by train a lot. I don't currently travel with guns, but if I needed to I would do it without batting an eyelid. Broken down, in an anonymous nondescript sports bag, in the luggage rack directly above my seat where I can see it. I'm NOT going to lose it or leave it on the train because I'm a grown up. In the highly unlikely event I'm mugged and it's stolen, then despite what some on here seem to think - I am simply the victim of a crime, which could happen anywhere and WHICH ISN'T MY FAULT. I'm not going to sit cowering in the house and never go shooting on the off chance this might happen.

 

It's definitely not against the law, though I accept it might be against some operating companies T&Cs. So what? They're never going to know, and even if they do what can they do bar ask you to leave the train? Who are they to tell me I can't travel with my own property, when going about my lawful business? I would even consider legally challenging such a discriminatory rule if they pushed it.

 

It's sad that some people seem so meek and scared of their own shadows :(

 

Precisely!

 

J.

[mr smith]

Who are they to tell me I can't travel with my own property, .

 

 

Quite likely the the owners of the property you are travelling on.Despite the 'public' bit and where they get some of their money from these train are owned/operated by private companies.

Those of us shooters in the industry would agree it is a load of ********.And as i always say on these threads,be discrete and the likelyhood is the staff won't know the rules anyway.

Edited June 4, 2012 by mr smith