Multimedia images of dead animals/birds

[Guest Mr Pieman]

Hi all

 

A thread in the video section has got a bit sidetracked (probably by me!!) relating to the above. So, I have moved the debate here instead. What are people's thoughts on the impact in the rise (on this site and the media in general) of photos of dead creatures being posted? Do they harm our reputations? Make us look bad?

 

Whilst I know an anti will always be an anti, what about those sat 'on the fence'? Do the images make them warm to the anti group?? To be honest, I personally see very little to be gained by someone posting such images/videos, other than massaging personal ego. Many comments that appear under such images tend to be lacking in any real value - we get 'great shot', or 'nice one mate'. Does it REALLY help our cause?

 

So, personally I think they add little or no positive value and would like to see them removed. I hasten to say this site is NOT a democracy and I am not looking for a collective to raise an argue meant for them to be banned, but I am interested in people's perceptions.

 

I think this will be an emotive topic, so would respectfully remind everyone to play nicely

 

So, your thoughts???

 

Mr P

[roester]

IMHO yes, it does make us look bad.

 

I am new to this group, and also fairly new to shooting with shotguns. At the moment I only shoot clays however I have access to some land, and the idea of shooting to eat isn't a problem for me. It is customary at my work to bring in old magazines to the tea rooms, and I dropped in a couple of copies of shooting times, as well as a couple of other publications. Most of my colleges are not anti, however the average comment about people posing with their kills wasn't very pro the sport to put it mildly.

 

Having a section of videos where you can re-watch your kills I would imagine would push people towards the anti. There is enough debate about "enjoying killing" vs "killing to eat" vs "killing for pest control". To add to that debate as enjoying watching animals getting killed, and I think we are on dodgy ground.

 

However that is just my impression, and I am not at all anti.

[Chard]

I'm no anti, and I only shoot clays.

 

As far as I'm concerned, these photos serve no useful purpose at all. When I see them, I just think "Oh, more dead stuff" and move on.

 

Thankfully (I think I'm right in saying) the forum administrators have had the good sense to make it that you need to be a member to see photos on here. Without a doubt, they do nothing to enhance the sport in the eyes of the silent majority. As has already been said, a hardcore anti will always be an anti, whether they see stuff like that or not. Ordinary people, on the other hand, won't be drooling with schoolboy glee at the sight of an inside-out fox and thinking "great shot mate".

 

But what do I know? I don't believe half the people on here give a toss about how the public views their sport - sorry - pest control The thinly veiled references and support for killing raptors is rife on here and paraded for all the world to see, so nobody's going to lose much sleep over what people think of pictures of dead stuff.

 

We are constantly told that all shooters should stand shoulder to shoulder with one another, but there are times when I find it hard to drum up enthusiasm to stand shoulder to shoulder with goons who seem hell-bent on scoring the massive own goal that turning the public against them undoubtedly is.

[TJ91]

I'm no anti, and I only shoot clays.

 

As far as I'm concerned, these photos serve no useful purpose at all. When I see them, I just think "Oh, more dead stuff" and move on.

 

Thankfully (I think I'm right in saying) the forum administrators have had the good sense to make it that you need to be a member to see photos on here. Without a doubt, they do nothing to enhance the sport in the eyes of the silent majority. As has already been said, a hardcore anti will always be an anti, whether they see stuff like that or not. Ordinary people, on the other hand, won't be drooling with schoolboy glee at the sight of an inside-out fox and thinking "great shot mate".

 

But what do I know? I don't believe half the people on here give a toss about how the public views their sport - sorry - pest control The thinly veiled references and support for killing raptors is rife on here and paraded for all the world to see, so nobody's going to lose much sleep over what people think of pictures of dead stuff.

 

We are constantly told that all shooters should stand shoulder to shoulder with one another, but there are times when I find it hard to drum up enthusiasm to stand shoulder to shoulder with goons who seem hell-bent on scoring the massive own goal that turning the public against them undoubtedly is.

 

very well put

agree 100%

[Livefast123]

To some members of the shooting community and some forum members kill pictures probably are a way of saying 'look how well my trip went today or this new rifle is really accurate'

 

To most members of the non shooting community they say 'look how macho I am, with my gun and 50 cuddly creatures that i've just gunned down'

 

It's difficult, because on the one hand we shouldn't be afraid to show what our sport/hobby/job is all about but we have to weigh it up against the negative image that those pictures promote.

 

Personally I enjoy looking at the pics but it does our sport no good

Edited June 1, 2012 by Livefast123

[Vermincinerator]

Hiding what we do only drives our sport further underground, it sounds as if some shooters are clearly of the hush hush brigade, almost ashamed of what we do.

I for one am not, the ideal end to my pursuit is a dead animal, the same as a speciman fish to an angler, a 180 to a darts player or a hatric to a footballer, i want to glory in my end result and share my exploits with like minded people so a photo of my latest kill is the best way to do it.

 

Ian.

[Browning]

To be honest, I personally see very little to be gained by someone posting such images/videos, other than massaging personal ego. Many comments that appear under such images tend to be lacking in any real value - we get 'great shot', or 'nice one mate'.

 

Hi PP!

 

I absolutely agree, and have voiced the same opinion on many occasions over the years.....an opinion that usually ends up with me being labelled an anti.

 

I have yet to read a post on this, or any forum, that is enhanced by a picture of a dead animal. We have all seen a dead fox/rabbit/pigeon/rook etc etc so why the need to 'prove' that "This fox was shot by me last night" is beyond me....other than an ego massaging and/or willy waving exercise.

 

It can do no good to our shooting sports.

 

p.s. Hows things with you PP?

[al4x]

There is a definite middle ground obviously you get the odd townie RSPB member on here who will get the hump at certain things but thats their perogative. Pictures of dead things I have no real issue with I don't feel the need to post them often but it is a simple fact shoot foxes with centerfires and some of the results can be a little gruesome. But thats what we are pushed to use to shoot them from a legal perspective and its hard to argue that its not humane.

Antis will be antis and find it distasteful and thats whether its dead animals or people processing them and turning them into food. The idea of Bambi burgers is enough to get a fair few backs right up but people would have no issue on here of the actual burgers being shown. Really the status quo on here is about right no overtly graphic ones but general shooting ones are fine. The photo that started this had a caption on it and was mildly amusing certainly I've seen far worse so really have a bit of trouble getting too excited about this one.

[pegasus bridge]

i think hiding the reality of meat harvesting is half the problem with the world today - people have lost touch with how meat is produced, which is only a bad thing.

 

having said that, bloody close ups of a shot animal, rather than a picture of it in context can sometimes not do us any favours. but on a website like this (for people who shoot) we should not be afraid of this reaction.

 

its what we do, we should not be embarrassed about it.

[CharlieT]

I absolutely agree, and have voiced the same opinion on many occasions over the years.....an opinion that usually ends up with me being labelled an anti.

 

I have yet to read a post on this, or any forum, that is enhanced by a picture of a dead animal. We have all seen a dead fox/rabbit/pigeon/rook etc etc so why the need to 'prove' that "This fox was shot by me last night" is beyond me....other than an ego massaging and/or willy waving exercise.

 

It can do no good to our shooting sports.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

Reading this thread has just made me realise that in all my years of shooting and being a keen photographer to boot, I've never felt the need to or taken a photo of a dead animal.

 

If I was to shoot a charging Rhino I probably would but photos of deer and vermin is just not my thing.

[al4x]

Posting pictures is one matter but I will take a fair few of foxes. Its been quite useful over the last few years, with a date stamp and location its almost like a digital game book. Gives a good idea where on the farm we tend to shoot them and what time of year. Its surprising how regular certain spots can be. So how many who don't take pictures keep a game diary?

Edited June 1, 2012 by al4x

[Bazooka Joe]

i think hiding the reality of meat harvesting is half the problem with the world today - people have lost touch with how meat is produced, which is only a bad thing.

 

 

I think the same, most think it's OK when it's on the marble slab, but take them down the slaughter house to show them how it gets there it'll be a different matter.

 

We take a photos of all the Foxes/Deer, & decent bags of vermin, good for a record, & something you can refer to at a later date.

 

I've nothing against photo's, but the pictures in question in this thread cannot do shooting any good, especially when we are a minority.

 

It doesn't take long to present the animal in a way so joe public cannot see exit wounds.

 

There's a world of difference between a 6 Pointer & Hunter, presented decent, & Charlie V-Maxed.

[CharlieT]

So how many who don't take pictures keep a game diary?

 

I do. Father gave me one for my 16th birthday and I've kept them up ever since. Fifty one years worth.

[sako751sg]

I think it's great.I love seeing people look in the sporting pictures section knowing what's on view and then claim disgust.These same folk go on tranny and gay porn and also claim disgust but in reality get turned on by it and play with their little Gibbs whilst watching.Sorry if that's off topic a wee bit,but it's the truth you know.

[ziplex]

I keep a diary of all things shot over each Wild fowling season both for my returns and for something to look back on, same for my cod fishing exploits over a 15 year period going back when I chased them hard throughout every winter. Apart from taking the odd snap of say...the mutts first retrieve over water or a few for 'my' album I really don't feel the need to post up pictures in the slightest. Doesn't make me an anti and I'll happily tell people what I've shot if they're genuinely interested, I gain nothing from viewing pictures of 'trophy' shots at all....yes, really. I was only talking the other day about Goose shooting in the states and how they muller huge numbers then whoop and back slap each other while posting it up for everyone to view....again, that type of shooting is just not for me. I'd sooner wander over the foreshore with the dog, take in the scenery and hopefully return with a couple of duck then write about it when back home. Each to their own I guess.

[grasshopper]

I personally prefer it when there is a picture attached to a good write up,i think it enhances the post so long as it's done tastefully..to many walts about who will just say they shot 200 of this and that with no proof.

 

What i dislike is the pictures of dead animals with "Shot this last night" as the only explanation...whoop de doo.

 

Also disliked the photo that started this debate and indeed any that make a mockery of the creature in it.Have seen pics where a cigarette has been put into a Fox's mouth,not big and certainly not clever.

 

A true hunter/sportsman/countryman,however you wish to be addressed,has respect for all quarry,and taking a picture of it does not mean he/she is lacking in this.

Sadly it is obvious some so called hunters etc..most definateley do not

 

I too photograph all Fox and Deer for my own gallery,as when i look at it,i quickly recall which outing it was and how it went.

[bedwards1966]

A question to anyone who posts pictures of anything they have shot: Why?

 

Please don't think I'm having a go, I am curious as to why people do it.

 

In my view it's not needed, we all know what a fox/deer looks like, we all know what 50 rabbits/pigeons look like, and if it's to shot the effectiveness of a round that can be described in words quite easily. I don't think these things should be posted on the internet, as already said not due to the anti's but for those who are halfway. If it served a purpose then perhaps so, but I can't see a need for it.

There is no harm in photographing or recording it for your own reasons, but I can't see any good in making it public.

 

I also feel that videos that show an animal shot where it doesn't die immediately (even if it's a good shot) should not be published, personally I would want to keep quiet if I shot something that didn't drop on the spot, but to see rabbits twitching, deer running and so on after a shot is probably the worst thing we can do, far worse than a simple picture.

[bigt1754]

I don't think that a picture of 'a' dead crow, or 'a' dead rabbit next to a rifle/shotgun on the floor, does us any favors at all. Yes if it was your first trip out ever, and wanting to tell people about it, fine, but posting for the sake of posting........

 

I just don't click on the treads. Its like a bad program on the tele, turn it over, you don't have to look at it.

 

Each to their own, does nothing for me.

[Scully]

Personally it's not my cup of tea,but each to their own.I've photographed deer and foxes we've shot,but only to send to a mate who hasn't been with us at the time.I see pictures in 'Sporting Rifle' all the time,of shooters posing with rifle and carcass,but it does absolutely nothing for me.I've no doubt that to the average person in the street they appear abhorrent(as would a picture of a slaughterman and his latest 'process') but so does the tradition of 'blooding' a persons cheek after their first kill.The latter didn't do fox huntings image any good either.

I personally don't think the posed photos are an indication of the hunters 'skill'(let's face it,it's a bit of a one-sided competition)more of a celebration of the days outcome;I have no doubt that if early man had cameras they would have photographed the event rather than paint the animals they hunted,and the hunt itself,on their cave walls.I just see it as the modern equivalent of this,and if people weren't so far removed from the process of turning living and breathing animals into the meat we eat,they wouldn't find it objectionable.

[Guest Mr Pieman]

Personally it's not my cup of tea,but each to their own.I've photographed deer and foxes we've shot,but only to send to a mate who hasn't been with us at the time.I see pictures in 'Sporting Rifle' all the time,of shooters posing with rifle and carcass,but it does absolutely nothing for me.I've no doubt that to the average person in the street they appear abhorrent(as would a picture of a slaughterman and his latest 'process') but so does the tradition of 'blooding' a persons cheek after their first kill.The latter didn't do fox huntings image any good either.

I personally don't think the posed photos are an indication of the hunters 'skill'(let's face it,it's a bit of a one-sided competition)more of a celebration of the days outcome;I have no doubt that if early man had cameras they would have photographed the event rather than paint the animals they hunted,and the hunt itself,on their cave walls.I just see it as the modern equivalent of this,and if people weren't so far removed from the process of turning living and breathing animals into the meat we eat,they wouldn't find it objectionable.

 

 

Hi Scully,

 

I think part of the problem is many of the photos that are shown often feature non-food species - foxes. I think cuddly Basil Brush Syndrome will pull those on the fence towards the anti group as they view them as cute etc. I appreciate they cause problems, but the fence sitters don't really grasp the concept of Basil being a bit of a b*g*er!

 

I'm not suggesting Basil isn't controlled, just maybe we need to control him subtly.

[Chard]

A lot of people keep chirping on about what THEY think of the pictures.

 

The point of course, is more about what showing those sort of pictures to Joe Public is going to do for the reputation of hunting sports.

 

The unfortunate truth is that nobody gives a toss what YOU think about them

 

I was just thinking about how unnecessary they are. I am a bit of a Colin Willock fan. Even though I only shoot clays, I enjoy reading some of his wildfowling books, like "Landscape With Solitary Figure" and "Town Gun". Not a lot of pictures of inside out animals in them, but his written accounts of days out are a real pleasure to read.

[Guest Mr Pieman]

I read The Field - a fine outdoor pursuits periodical - and all dead creatures are tastefully photographed, never the slaughtered corpse approach!! I also read Sporting Shooter (SS), a VERY different approach!! Everything is murder and camouflaged people running amok in hats and vests with 'Rivers West' emblazoned across them!! Oddly enough, there is always a copy of The Field in any of our bathrooms for guests to peruse whilst abluting - but no SS as the photos have upset a few guests in the past. NOT because they are antis, far from it. Most are farmers' wives or their partners shoot. It is the graphic images that they find disturbing.

 

Fred R. Barnard said 'One look is worth a thousand words', so we need to make sure we are conveying the right message to the people

[Thunderbird]

I am a bit of a Colin Willock fan. Even though I only shoot clays, I enjoy reading some of his wildfowling books, like "Landscape With Solitary Figure" and "Town Gun". Not a lot of pictures of inside out animals in them, but his written accounts of days out are a real pleasure to read.

 

I know this is way off topic but if you've not done it but liked the books why don't you contact the local fowling club (if there is one) and have a couple of taster flights?

 

It doesn't have to be 'hard core' (ie freezing your nuts off) and its a good way of experiencing hunting a bit of your own grub (if you're lucky) without the need for a 'permission.'

 

Apologies for hijacking the thread.

[carlosdesilva]

I personaly dont think a picture of dead quarry is good to display on a public forum,i never need a photo to remind me of a good hunt,shoot its all stored up in my head,being a lurcher man im confident photos of my bull cross squeezing the life out of a fox would not be appreciated,i kill game and eat it,i kill vermin and thats that,dont ever get the need to look at photos of deceased animals .old dogs i love to look back at, and purely thier image will remind me of all the good times,and quarry they caught.Perhaps if you dont get out much and its all new to you the need to photo gear is more so?Even just using dogs and getting 40 odd foxes a season i felt it not necessary to take pictures,even my best day of 7 foxes all caught on top,i took no photos but can remember it like yesterday,that was 3 dogs running single handed by the way !

[cant hit rabbits 123]

In my totally honest opinion, I see it as any other hobby. Take car clubs, if you are in a club and go to a large club meet, chances are you'll take a few pictures of other peoples cars and show them pictures of your projects at home, or pictures from that track day a few weeks back. Now, swap a club meet for PW, and the cars for guns, and track days for shooting sessions. Why is it so unacceptable in this light?