alendil Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hello Qestion like in subject in about 12 months i am going to aplly for biger gun. just dont know what to go for .223 .243 .308 it will be use for Fox and some deer if i'm lucky. meaby some long range target practise etc. Thank You for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 .243 will suit your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finreid Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 .243 will do the job well! .223 is great for foxes, but only legal for roe deer in Scotland, and a .243 is legal on reds as well (providing you are using the right load). whilst a .308 would be good for deer, it may be too much for foxes. If I were you, I'd got for the .243, plenty on the market, lots of ammo, (you could even use different weight bullets depending on the work you are doing) and a great all round calibre! its why they are so popular! fin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 6.5x55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alendil Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I was under impresion that .243 is short barel life (about 1500 rounds) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 308 is he next one I'm getting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Unless your in Scotland I'd go no smaller than a .243, as it's the minimum calibre required. It's OK on deer, and it's a superb foxing round. I wouldn't say it'd make a great target round, but it does depend on how much it'll be used for that, it's a bit of a barrel burner, and might be more gun than you need for target shooting - it depends how you define long range. A .308 would be my choice for deer, but if you aren't shooting that many it's probably not needed. Many forces won't allow a .308 for foxes, you can end up with a condition that you can only shoot foxes while out deerstalking, try explaining that away while out lamping and you might have a problem. Perhaps a 6.5 might suit your needs fairly well, a bit better for deer, good on foxes and I think it'd be a bit better for target work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I had a 308 for the same job but think if I did it again I'd buy a 243 308 is great for deer and foxes are dead if shot with it I know you can't get to dead but it was messy at times!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 .223 has limited legal use on deer (ok if its just roe in SCotland or munties and CWD England though) good fox choice .243 will do all deer and an awesome long range foxer though at 200yds no better than .223 realy - short barrel life IF you plan on plinking away .308 great target gun, good on big deer- smaller deer it tends to break the diaphram if it passes near to it at any point through hydrolic shock, if mainly for foxes it's simply the wrong gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Unless your in Scotland I'd go no smaller than a .243, as it's the minimum calibre required. Not wishing to b*tch - but that is twice now you hgave said that .243 is the minimum calibre for deer in England and Wales - and this is the second time I have corrected you (I am not targeting you)- but the Minimum calibre is .240 NOT .243 In answer to the OPs querstion - Like above I would look at one of the other 6mm calibres (There are a few!) - I shoot the 6.5x55 for Deer and fox, plus it shoots out to 1000+ on the range with very good ballistics. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Im absolutely naive about rifles but without wishing to hijack the thread, why does 243it burn the barrel out and why is a .270 or. 300 not mentioned as an in between calibre for 243-308? Or are these just not good calibres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Not wishing to b*tch - but that is twice now you hgave said that .243 is the minimum calibre for deer in England and Wales - and this is the second time I have corrected you (I am not targeting you)- but the Minimum calibre is .240 NOT .243 In answer to the OPs querstion - Like above I would look at one of the other 6mm calibres (There are a few!) - I shoot the 6.5x55 for Deer and fox, plus it shoots out to 1000+ on the range with very good ballistics. Mike Your quite right to point it out, I simply put down .243 being the minimum practical/normal calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Im absolutely naive about rifles but without wishing to hijack the thread, why does 243it burn the barrel out and why is a .270 or. 300 not mentioned as an in between calibre for 243-308? Or are these just not good calibres? .243's burn out barrels pretty quickly compared to other rounds. It's a fast, hot burning round that simply destroys barrels. It's hard to wear one out foxing, probably impossible on deer, but at target shooting it's a big downside. As to the other calibres you mention, they are good rounds, perhaps a little less commonly used which might be why people don't think of them so much? They have their uses, I can't say much about them as I've never used one and don't know much about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 .243's burn out barrels pretty quickly compared to other rounds. Do they really? Mine hasn't and it's had uggins through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Not wishing to b*tch - but that is twice now you hgave said that .243 is the minimum calibre for deer in England and Wales - and this is the second time I have corrected you (I am not targeting you)- but the Minimum calibre is .240 NOT .243 In answer to the OPs querstion - Like above I would look at one of the other 6mm calibres (There are a few!) - I shoot the 6.5x55 for Deer and fox, plus it shoots out to 1000+ on the range with very good ballistics. Mike Ask for a .240 then try and buy one then- or any ammo. .243 is the effective minimum all deer round that is produced in facory rifles or ammo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Do they really? Mine hasn't and it's had uggins through it. yes they realy do, its made worse by shooting hot loads or lighter/faster bullets. Quite simply look how much powder a 6mm BR takes for equivenlent weight bullets and the spped it pushes them. 1500 is about the exepted average life but could be under 1000 or up to 2000 depending on how its shot, what its shooting and the metalurgy of the steel. A target shooter might well shoot 1000 or more a season. I am not speaking from heresay here i have put more than a few .243 bullets downrange and have a nearly worn out barrel in my own .243. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Im absolutely naive about rifles but without wishing to hijack the thread, why does 243it burn the barrel out and why is a .270 or. 300 not mentioned as an in between calibre for 243-308? Or are these just not good calibres? The .270 is a fabulous all deer calibre .I used one for many years with the 130 grain bullet . Some dont like the recoil but I never found it a problem ,where theres no sense theres no feeling . The .270 does bark a bit particularly at first light in woodland . When you say 300 ,if you mean 30 calibre then the .308 or the 30-06 fits the bill . I am now a one gun stalker and the .308 and the 150 grain bullet ticks all the boxes . Harnser Edited June 3, 2012 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Im absolutely naive about rifles but without wishing to hijack the thread, why does 243it burn the barrel out and why is a .270 or. 300 not mentioned as an in between calibre for 243-308? Or are these just not good calibres? In its simplest form "heat" smaller the diameter of the barrel ID and more powder = Hotter. A barrel exposed to the heat of a centrefire bullet constantly without remision between shots etc would last only a couple seconds or so. Getting more scientific it depends on the burn temp of the powder also so 30-06 will be around equalish to a .308 even though it burns more powder. velocities with 150 grn bullets are about equal in these two cals so one whould think they should be about equal in life. Yet a much slower lower capacity 30 cal like a 30-30 might even have an extended life over either. It aint realy that exact though as various other factors come into play. There is much to be said for running slower than 3000 fps as regards burn rates, so a 100 grn modest load in a .243 will keep the barrel good for longer than a 55 grn load at 4000 fps from the same gun. Case in point a .270 will burn out quicker than a 30-06 even though its the same case necked down for a smaller bore. Smaller bore diameter, same amount of powder, lighter faster bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Friend of mine shoots a 270 and I have never found it loud or nasty recoil wise, I like slower powders and I think it shows in the 270 and 243 in as much they seem to just give a good shove over a harsh kick. That aside I too just use a 308 now. I use 110 v-max at 3100+fps for fox's and also have a steady 170grn load that plods along at a steady 2600+fps (recently took a 260pace fox with it) with no real important zero change. I have also down loaded heavy bullets to 1200fps for harvesting rabbit on very windy nights. Beats 22lr for sure. What I am saying is it is a wonderfull versatile round with good barrel life. In the world of the hunter I actually prefere 30wcf and used it for years and miss it but the 308 (in the world of hunting) can opperate at 30wcf perfomance levels at ease so I am happy. A friend is recoil sensitive and uses a 308. He asked about reducing the recoil but still wished to shoot boars and red deer. I said get some 200grners. The 308 can only chuck them around 2200fps give or take. He did and says they are ok, less 'snappy' to the shoulder! The 243 I used in two rifles I gave up on. To this day I don't know why I don't like it as they were very good. 16grn of H4227 made a good rabbit load beyond 200yds and with a full case of H4350 I made one of my longest shots but alas I don't really like the chambering. My vote is the 308. Bullets everywhere, in a pinch a hp target bullet will get the job done. Reverse a cheap jacket and pop it out and you have a good subsonic rabbit getter with a can. Cast bullets abound and casting is also an option. Good luck. U. Edited June 3, 2012 by Underdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Ask for a .240 then try and buy one then- or any ammo. .243 is the effective minimum all deer round that is produced in facory rifles or ammo Now - Kent, not like you to be pedantic! - but the .240 equates to 6.095mm - which is why all the 6mm's are Deer legal (Providing they use a suitable bullet weight and develop sufficient FPS and FT LBs) Maybe that is why my 6mm is also listed as a .240 on my ticket? likewise for ammo purchase! FACT is that THE LAW and not Pigeon watch members STATE that the minimum calibre is .240. There is no debate - it is FACT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 So a faster lighter bullet burns out barrels? Why doesn't everyone use slow heavy ones then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wj939 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 In terms of burning out if you were firing without remission how to automatic rifles not burn out in the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sx3 clay breaker Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 What about a 22-250 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 In terms of burning out if you were firing without remission how to automatic rifles not burn out in the same way? They do burn out, thats why machine gunners have a crew part of which is to carry spare barrels and the barrels have quick change facilities. Some are water cooled to extend barrel life. Some MG barrels are made from Stelite at much expense, that is very hard steel indeed! The pressures generated in modern chamberings is immense, it is only possible from much heat generation all be it for milliseconds. CZ suggest their 22hornet and 222 barrels are good for 4000 rounds, sweet not to intense rounds that burn less than the threads cals. HTH. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Ask for a .240 then try and buy one then- or any ammo. .243 is the effective minimum all deer round that is produced in facory rifles or ammo Effective and legal are different things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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