Big Marty Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Over here we have our own ideas and thoughts on Martin McGuinness meeting and shaking hands with the Queen. Some say he has betrayed the men and women that died for there country, others say he has brought Irish- British Reconsiliation to a new level. Or in other words some say hero some say Zero.. I suppose I just wondered what you all thought of your Queen meeting Martin McGuinness after all that's happened over the years......... MARTY ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Over here we have our own ideas and thoughts on Martin McGuinness meeting and shaking hands with the Queen. Some say he has betrayed the men and women that died for there country, others say he has brought Irish- British Reconsiliation to a new level. Or in other words some say hero some say Zero.. I suppose I just wondered what you all thought of your Queen meeting Martin McGuinness after all that's happened over the years......... MARTY ........ Should have never happened..... How many dead? And for what!! http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=martin%20mcguinness%20and%20involvement%20in%20killing%20lord%20mountbatten&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuknews%2Fqueen-elizabeth-II%2F9359082%2FQueen-forced-to-put-aside-IRA-murder-of-Lord-Mountbatten-to-meet-McGuinness.html&ei=6bHuT77zOMak0QWX3_mMDg&usg=AFQjCNEhT1rx_y19VW-WOLMtv1R9_59bTg TEH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 i suppose it should be viewed as a good thing, after all the blood which was spilt over the years. my view of McGuinness, he was part of the IRA group which killed innocent people, part of a terrorist organisation fighting for their rights much like many terrorists organisations are doing at present and the reason why so many people are still dying... I dont like him or trust him, but thats my opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Regardless of who killed who the important thing for me is that its a step in the right direction to a lasting peace in NI. Fair play to the Queen for putting aside what must have been very strong feelings regarding the Mountbatten affair and fair play to McGuiness for doing something which at best was going to divide opinion of SF's followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I can be as vengeful as anyone but to be honest about it the only real way forward is to forgive and forget it can be a very hard thing to do but in the end as the saying goes violence only breeds more violence just look at history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I spent a large part of my formative years in Northern Ireland and witnessed the results of quite a few terrorist atrocities up close. I have a deep and abiding loathing of the "freedom fighters", be they PIRA, UVF or whatever, who carried them out. McGuiness makes my skin crawl, and has his share of blood on his hands. However, I have to admit that whilst I'll never be able to forget their murderous past, Sinn Fein have moved forward and made some courageous choices along the way. I can see that McGuiness shaking hands with a British Monarch doesn't play well to an Irish Nationalist/Republican crowd and that he is taking a big reputational risk in so doing. It doesn't play too well with loyal British people to see the representative of an organisation with over 2000 murders to their name, shaking hands with our respected Queen either :( I doubt whether the Queen had much choice as she has to do what the politicians want, and I doubt if it was a bundle of laughs for her having suffered personal loss due to the IRA. Do I like McGuiness? Do I think he has moved on and that Ireland is a better place because of it? Can I live with images of him and the Queen shaking hands? Yes, provided that means he is isn't trying to kill her, her extended family, soldiers, policemen, and innocent punters in Birmingham and London pubs. Edited June 30, 2012 by Blunderbuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant Feeder Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I see it as a step forward. A very small step, but none the less a step that was essential in order to move forward. The Queen has suffered the loss of close family as a result of the conflict, but she has always been a stateswoman and I suspect hoped for peace for a decades. If by shaking the hand of a former foe, she can remove an obstacle to peace then she would not want to impede any progress that can be made. Martin McGuinness, has with age evolved from a young terrorist/freedom fighter (depending upon your point of view) into a politician. He will still have a strong desire to see a unified Ireland, but will appreciate the progress that has been made. He will appreciate that as a young teenage catholic from Brandywell feeling heavily oppressed by an occupying army, he could not have ever expected that he or any of his peers would have risen to the level he has. He will realise that he has not achieved what he set out to do, and probably never will in his political lifetime. But he has learnt to compromise and accept that the progress made is further than terrorism could ever take them. As a politician he realised that to carry his credibility to the next level, and to further the progress made it was something he had to do. He may even have seen it as a complement that he has been recognised by the figurehead of his former enemy. The Unionists I suspect, will be unhappy as he is seen as the enemy and the recognition by the Queen, possibly underminds there entrenched position. The move made by McGuinness has also diffused any couter argument they could have about his legitimacy as a polititcian. The Disedent Republicans will feel as if they have been let down, they will not appreciate the progress made, and not be happy until a unified Ireland is achieved. It is the difference between accepting that the majority of Catholics only ever wanted equality and peace, and trying to continue their own minority agenda. In short its the difference between the terrorist and the politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPUK Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I just wished MI5 had given the Queen a ring with point on it covered in poison for when she shook his hand - Mcg is a dirty smarmy killer who deserves a slow death along with his paymast the slime ball adams - What annoys me is we pay them. Always remember the kiddy rolling down motorway after they blew coach up. - not to mention my hometown pub bombing in Birmingham. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Regardless of who killed who the important thing for me is that its a step in the right direction to a lasting peace in NI. Fair play to the Queen for putting aside what must have been very strong feelings regarding the Mountbatten affair and fair play to McGuiness for doing something which at best was going to divide opinion of SF's followers. Exactly. No matter what our personal feelings, the only way forward to peace and reconciliation is for both sides to draw a line in the sand and speak to one another. This historic line was drawn when the Queen shook the hand of McGuiness. Both have demonstrated great leadership with this gesture, I only hope the dialogue continues and the past is consigned to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 did he not say "goodbye and Godspeed" in Irish to her? sounds like he was being a bit of a smart ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant Feeder Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Exactly. No matter what our personal feelings, the only way forward to peace and reconciliation is for both sides to draw a line in the sand and speak to one another. This historic line was drawn when the Queen shook the hand of McGuiness. Both have demonstrated great leadership with this gesture, I only hope the dialogue continues and the past is consigned to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Exactly. No matter what our personal feelings, the only way forward to peace and reconciliation is for both sides to draw a line in the sand and speak to one another. This historic line was drawn when the Queen shook the hand of McGuiness. Both have demonstrated great leadership with this gesture, I only hope the dialogue continues and the past is consigned to history. I have to agree with this statement! No matter what you think of him and while we have to remember the lives that were lost (Needlessly in my opinion, some of which he might well have had a hand in) we need to look to the future. I can see both sides of the argument/debate but do we need to keep living in and looking back at the past - Surely the future is what is more important and any moves towards long lasting peace have to be moves on the right direction! The most important thing is that he sticks to the peace moves and talks towards long lasting peace! - Time will tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Over here we have our own ideas and thoughts on Martin McGuinness meeting and shaking hands with the Queen. Some say he has betrayed the men and women that died for there country, others say he has brought Irish- British Reconsiliation to a new level. Or in other words some say hero some say Zero.. I suppose I just wondered what you all thought of your Queen meeting Martin McGuinness after all that's happened over the years......... MARTY ........ Terrorists or Freedom fighters?...I'll let others decide. But this handshake had to happen...good for them both. Let's move on...just spent a week in Ireland...mainly Galway and Athlone...what a warm welcome. Over to vicars/ priests and mums and dad's to knock sectarianism on the head...start off with mixed schools. Here's to democracy in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I have to agree with this statement! No matter what you think of him and while we have to remember the lives that were lost (Needlessly in my opinion, some of which he might well have had a hand in) we need to look to the future. I can see both sides of the argument/debate but do we need to keep living in and looking back at the past - Surely the future is what is more important and any moves towards long lasting peace have to be moves on the right direction! The most important thing is that he sticks to the peace moves and talks towards long lasting peace! - Time will tell! so essentially the lesson we can all learn is that if you are not happy with something, it's perfectly acceptable to murder and kill until you get your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun jimmy Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 If I was getting the same amount of money as he is I would shake anyones hand! Its all an act! Hes still a murderer! Only now hes a republican icon and getting paid for it by the British government! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 MI5 Agent and loyal Crown Servant Martin 'The fisherman' McGuinness had no problem shaking the queens hand. He's been working for her for the past 25 years. She made him and his mates in Sinn Fein millionaires the least he could do is show some gratitude. All said if all this keeps blood of the streets over here then long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 so essentially the lesson we can all learn is that if you are not happy with something, it's perfectly acceptable to murder and kill until you get your way. Ok, If that is your opinion (which you are quite untitled to) what would you rather see happening then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I think it was inevitable SF have singed up to democracy and the rule of law. Martin McGuinness is deputy first minister overseeing this part of the UK. The majority of the people in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland singed up to the good Friday agreement knowing that SF members could end up in government. It was a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of people but if it could help end the violence it was a price worth paying. One thing that surprises me is how many people vote for SF knowing their past. Loyalist paramilitaries have political parties but get very few votes because of their terrorist past. I personally wouldn't vote fore any political party with a terrorist past . Their are other nationalist parties with the same aspirations as SF but always rejected violence as a means of achieving it. United Ireland ect. PS.I would agree with another post that children should be educated together and not segregated. One of the biggest obstacles to this is the catholic church who are unwilling to give up their power and influence over the children. '(Give Me the Child Until He is Seven, and I Will Show You the man). That's the thinking in the catholic church. The same goes for all church schools tax payers money shouldn't go to church schools to brainwash children in their views. The heroes of the conflict here are the people that didn't get involved in violence and kept the country running. One doctor in the RVH that patched up victims is worth 100 Martian McGuinnees and his cronies. Edited June 30, 2012 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Ok, If that is your opinion (which you are quite untitled to) what would you rather see happening then? nothing will fix it apart from time. we don't talk about the Normans or the angles or the saxons anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveyb Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I totally disagree with him shaking hands as I am not convinced he and his rat like mate Adams were ever genuine in their intentions or is this just another change in threir tactics, for a kick off despite all the millions spent in investigating bloody sunday in my opinion mr McGuiness' role that day was never fully disclosed,let's be honest would anyone buy a car from either of them? they look exactly what they are - manipulating shysters!!!! rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 The one sure thing about life is death, comes to us all. We all need to make sure we are ready for that time. McGuinness will meet his maker sooner or later and so will those who stepped over the line in the RUC and Army. For sure we need to move on towards a lasting peace. Brownie points for all with that handshake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 so essentially the lesson we can all learn is that if you are not happy with something, it's perfectly acceptable to murder and kill until you get your way. He hasn't got his way though. Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom and will remain so until the majority of people who live there decide otherwise at the ballot box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveyb Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I would just like to point out that I have no religeous feeling whatsover either way I,m just following what my eyes and heart tell me as a fed up member of the public who is sick and tired of scum being welcomed as hero,s. Poor bloody **** their organisation killed havn't got the same options. Edited June 30, 2012 by steveyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 He hasn't got his way though. Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom and will remain so until the majority of people who live there decide otherwise at the ballot box. democracy is just a game of numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 democracy is just a game of numbers. Very enigmatic. Indeed it is, and the fact that people who once murdered to achieve their aims have realised that didn't work and gone down a political route is a good thing. I still don't see how that supports your view that "they" got what they wanted by killing? The demography of NI is changing and at some stage in the the not too distant future there will probably be a majority of voting age nationalists. Life isn't that simple though and the fortunes of the economy, Euro and other factors will come into play. Who knows which way it will go eventually - but that's democracy, you can't pick and choose the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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