spanj Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Possibly not... They broke the rules but that may welll just be a compliance issue. As to whether they broke the law or not... that's up to a court to decide but from what I've read so far it wouldn't appear they have! I work (spelt cower) under the big sword that is the FSA.... they are VERY, VERY fast to prosecute at any level where laws have been broken.. The fact they fined Barclays and DIDN'T immediately involve the police speaks volumes! It was a simple question. Yes or no .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Sorry I was going to go to bed but I must answer that. I don't think it was (but may be proven wrong). Unethical - probably. I doubt if anybody will be prosecuted for it. Sadly so do I because lots of influential noses are in the same trough. I refer to my analogy about robbing a bank and somebody elses about the kid nicking £150 worth of goods in the riots........ they were / certainly would be punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 No. Because here in the UK it is widely acknowledged that the government are the ones ripping us off at the pumps with duty and then vat on the duty.......... Now if you want a thread on "all governments are *********" then thats possible but only when we've finished with the bankers Well said that man! enjoy your day at work in the bank chaps i will be partaking in a little bit of fly fishing for trout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 It was a simple question. Yes or no .......... With the evidence presented thus far by the media..... no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Sadly so do I because lots of influential noses are in the same trough. I refer to my analogy about robbing a bank and somebody elses about the kid nicking £150 worth of goods in the riots........ they were / certainly would be punished. That analogy doesn't work though... It's like the recent offshore tax 'mitigation' 'scandal' that hit the headlines, with one MP calling for the prosecution of Jimmy Carr... for what he broke no laws! whilst you and I may find it distasteful and repugnant that rich folk have more tax mitigation loopholes than us mere mortals, how can you possibly prosecute someone who has not broke the law.. Bankers, in general, have not broken the law... some scrote looting during riots HAS broken the law, by committing an offence which quite often is dealt with by summary execution... so... 14 months is quite a let off IMHO! Edited July 3, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 it seems a banker has less status than a unemployed person on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 it seems a banker has less status than a unemployed person on here Probably earns less too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Probably earns less too! more than likely true lol the thing that bugs me with these high profile board room types and i by no means single out banking with this is when they screw up in what ever way be it by breaking the law, codes of conduct an thus bringing the business into disrepute they do not get sacked but instead get to stand down with a substantial severance pay out that most of us mere mortal can only dream of winning on the lotto! ah the venerable Mr Carr the thing that made me chuckle with that episode in the press was that Gary Barlow had used the same loop hole but the press where not baying for his blood like they were with Jimmy Carr :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'll cry for bankers a long time before I do for oil companies. I have experience of working with oil companies and there is nothing about them any better than there is about banks. Banks also create jobs and growth through lending, and fractional reserve banking is why we can enjoy many of the benefits we do as a society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Oh come on you work in the oil industry and you have the nerve to slag off Bankers. You lot are ripping off every person who puts fuel in their car. Can we please have an "all oil workers are ********" thread. Pretty please. You are a bit sensitive this evening, aren't you?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) With the evidence presented thus far by the media..... no they will get them and bring them to book as they should be in fact they should bring back the black cap just for bankers and dodgy financial dealers in these dark days of recession brought about by these same corrupt dealers and banks. just a snippet a what they may be looking at to get charges brought, and I sadly note how we treat our bent lot a bit different than the yanks do KW The law: how they could be prosecuted * The Financial Services Authority does not have the power to take action under the criminal law – unlike its US counterpart – for manipulating the market. The gap is set to be plugged by the Government. * The Serious Fraud Office is examining whether an offence has been committed in this case under the Fraud Act 2006. One possibility is that criminal charges could be brought for conspiracy to defraud. Penalties are left to the judge's discretion, but usually carry a prison sentence. * Another possibility is an offence of false accounting under the Theft Act 1968, covering "furnishing information … [which] may be misleading, false or deceptive". It carries a maximum sentence of seven years. Edited July 3, 2012 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 That analogy doesn't work though... It's like the recent offshore tax 'mitigation' 'scandal' that hit the headlines, with one MP calling for the prosecution of Jimmy Carr... for what he broke no laws! whilst you and I may find it distasteful and repugnant that rich folk have more tax mitigation loopholes than us mere mortals, how can you possibly prosecute someone who has not broke the law.. Bankers, in general, have not broken the law... some scrote looting during riots HAS broken the law, by committing an offence which quite often is dealt with by summary execution... so... 14 months is quite a let off IMHO! It does work but its not apparent to anybody who earns a living in the financial sector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'll cry for bankers a long time before I do for oil companies. I have experience of working with oil companies and there is nothing about them any better than there is about banks. Banks also create jobs and growth through lending, and fractional reserve banking is why we can enjoy many of the benefits we do as a society. How much did you pay for the crack you've been smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 :lol: :lol: How much did you pay for the crack you've been smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 It does work but its not apparent to anybody who earns a living in the financial sector Just invoke marshal law and lets have done with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuta Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 First of all, I have never and will never, be employed in any of the above mentioned industries. I'd just like to raise a few points, don my body armour and retire to my bunker......... 1) I am personally aware of the total inaccuracy of newspaper reporting and how they are capable of manipulating public sentiment....there are lies, damm lies and statistics......why do we continue to buy whole sale into their hype? 2) As a country which has no remaining industry to speak of, we are heavily reliant on the financial sector and our position as one of the leading world centres. This does not in any way mean we should turn a blind eye to any illegality or malpractice, however, if we continue to vilify and pillory banks and their management, they can and will relocate. Internationally the banks dropped 'us' and 'them' in it. But how much of that was down to we, as individuals borrowing money that we couldn't afford to repay, (So the banks lent it......but that doesn't absolve the borrowers of personal responsibility) to give ourselves an instant lifestyle that we thought we were owed or deserved. If you ain't got the money, you don't get it. Seemed to serve our older generations quite well....... 3) How much of this is just down to jealousy because 'we' perceive that 'they' earn more than 'us'? If you want to earn those sort of wages then become a CEO!! If you want cheap holidays, then work for a travel agent or airline, if you want good money and time off, then work on the rigs, if you want the (laudable) satisfaction of saving lives, become a paramedic....the list is endless. Each career path offers many different 'perks', many not monetary. I am sure that most of us derive some sort of satisfaction from our careers, even if it's the camaraderie of our colleagues. Invariably we trade responsibility for money, we wouldn't all like the loneliness that a leadership position can bring. 4) The banking industry is global. It decides the renumeration packages it needs to pay it's top talent to keep them. It's no different to football (and there's a group of people that generally I dislike and don't think are worth it) We just seem to be on a self destruct. RBS owes us - the tax payer- money. About 35 billion, I am led to believe. We need to parachute in a top talent to turn it around and to get our investment back. That talent is going to cost the going market rate. But the great British public, spurred on by the press, demand that he return his bonus!!! I too would be a tad p'd off if I was in his position. So we can no longer attract the talent we need and we lose the lot.....brilliant! Alternatively, we could blame everything on the bankers....make them wear a an identifying badge.......maybe round them up.....confiscate all their property........... :o So, I'm not a banker, I too am overworked, underpaid (but get to do a lot of things that money just can't buy) and think we should wind our necks in and stop bitching - go figure!! :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 How much did you pay for the crack you've been smoking? Put it this way: banking was responsible for securing and organising the investment for te projects that allowed this country and the wider world to progress from straw huts, whever it was through brokering bond issues to fund railways and the industry of the 19th century or direct lending to allow farmers to invest in machinery that has increased food yields to make famine a thing of history on these shores. Oil on the other hand just happens to be a relatively cheap and fairly condensed source of energy - eventually human progress will render it obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 First of all, I have never and will never, be employed in any of the above mentioned industries. I'd just like to raise a few points, don my body armour and retire to my bunker......... 1) I am personally aware of the total inaccuracy of newspaper reporting and how they are capable of manipulating public sentiment....there are lies, damm lies and statistics......why do we continue to buy whole sale into their hype? 2) As a country which has no remaining industry to speak of, we are heavily reliant on the financial sector and our position as one of the leading world centres. This does not in any way mean we should turn a blind eye to any illegality or malpractice, however, if we continue to vilify and pillory banks and their management, they can and will relocate. Internationally the banks dropped 'us' and 'them' in it. But how much of that was down to we, as individuals borrowing money that we couldn't afford to repay, (So the banks lent it......but that doesn't absolve the borrowers of personal responsibility) to give ourselves an instant lifestyle that we thought we were owed or deserved. If you ain't got the money, you don't get it. Seemed to serve our older generations quite well....... 3) How much of this is just down to jealousy because 'we' perceive that 'they' earn more than 'us'? If you want to earn those sort of wages then become a CEO!! If you want cheap holidays, then work for a travel agent or airline, if you want good money and time off, then work on the rigs, if you want the (laudable) satisfaction of saving lives, become a paramedic....the list is endless. Each career path offers many different 'perks', many not monetary. I am sure that most of us derive some sort of satisfaction from our careers, even if it's the camaraderie of our colleagues. Invariably we trade responsibility for money, we wouldn't all like the loneliness that a leadership position can bring. 4) The banking industry is global. It decides the renumeration packages it needs to pay it's top talent to keep them. It's no different to football (and there's a group of people that generally I dislike and don't think are worth it) We just seem to be on a self destruct. RBS owes us - the tax payer- money. About 35 billion, I am led to believe. We need to parachute in a top talent to turn it around and to get our investment back. That talent is going to cost the going market rate. But the great British public, spurred on by the press, demand that he return his bonus!!! I too would be a tad p'd off if I was in his position. So we can no longer attract the talent we need and we lose the lot.....brilliant! Alternatively, we could blame everything on the bankers....make them wear a an identifying badge.......maybe round them up.....confiscate all their property........... :o So, I'm not a banker, I too am overworked, underpaid (but get to do a lot of things that money just can't buy) and think we should wind our necks in and stop bitching - go figure!! :yp: Post of the decade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Post of the decade Glad to see that you survived and the nasty boys and girls on here didn't bully you too much. I'm back on-line now so will hold the fort for a while defnding the honour of those fine upstanding pillars of society - The Bankers. Yea right. I think my tactic of diverting attention to those bad people in the oil industry worked a bit. Also Leeds Chimp helped with his "I can't afford to work" post. All we need is a benefit claiming Rumanian gypsy to do something wrong and we'll be in the clear with our (my!) reputations intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Post of the decade As in "most ridiculous" ? So basically - let them off and throw more money at them so they can fix market conditions to line thier own pockets and ensure thier bonuses are paid? Another crack smokah! Of course banking is a global business/industry, most industries are now! How this effects the ethics of the way they conduct business is irrelevant, cut and dry of it is how many of these ceo's/directors are sheepishly falling on thier own sword after the words "sorry" Not a bad deal in the grand scheme of things - earn a large wedge for results that are not just poor - but catastrophic then jump on the "sorry - I'll fix it by retiring with my wedge" boat and disappear to a warm climate with a cold drink and avoid the attentions of the press for a few years. what other career do you get away with this other than politics? Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 So the bankers have apparently been rigging markets - shock, horror etc. This global financial mess that we are in is not actually the fault of the bankers, it's the fault of anyone or anything who took on more debt than they could afford to repay. The problem is that we no longer have the concept of personal responsibility - it's not "my" fault it's the banks fault for giving me the money. I'm an alcoholic, it's not my fault it's the fault of Tescos and their cheap booze. I beat a bloke up, it's not my fault it's the violent computer games I play. And so on... The Banks are owned by shareholders, and those shareholders are in the main large pension and insurance companies. You would have recently seen that these large institutions are now sticking their elbows out and exerting more control over the banks and other companies that they own - they are stopping pay increases and ridiculous bonuses; just 10 years too late. Why? They have now woken up - they asked "how is it these banks have been able to conduct risky sub prime lending business and why are we paying their Directors so much money" and the answer is because the shareholders have been lazy, sat back and let their investments take care of and run themselves ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 We would be in a mess with out them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 despite all opinions today could be interesting, more of the story is coming out and we will see what Mr Barclays says on the subject. Looking at the height the brown stuff has been dropped on him we could see some cracking names in the frame as well. If it stems from the then government trying to save the sub prime market by pushing Libor rates down do we have a technical infringement that they made the most of or something more sinister. One thing is I can see he feels so well stitched up that he might as well blow it all open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 1) I am personally aware of the total inaccuracy of newspaper reporting and how they are capable of manipulating public sentiment....there are lies, damm lies and statistics......why do we continue to buy whole sale into their hype? Agreed, but sometimes it's the quickest information we can get. We could, of course, wait until official versions are published but by then the issue is largely forgotten. 2) As a country which has no remaining industry to speak of, we are heavily reliant on the financial sector and our position as one of the leading world centres. This does not in any way mean we should turn a blind eye to any illegality or malpractice, however, if we continue to vilify and pillory banks and their management, they can and will relocate. Internationally the banks dropped 'us' and 'them' in it. But how much of that was down to we, as individuals borrowing money that we couldn't afford to repay, (So the banks lent it......but that doesn't absolve the borrowers of personal responsibility) to give ourselves an instant lifestyle that we thought we were owed or deserved. If you ain't got the money, you don't get it. Seemed to serve our older generations quite well....... Good points about personal responsibility, my sentiments entirely. I'm not so sure we're driving the banks out by fining them for breaking the rules though, unless they will move to somewhere with less rules, in which case should we let them get away with manipulating the market (us) so that they stay ? 3) How much of this is just down to jealousy because 'we' perceive that 'they' earn more than 'us'? If you want to earn those sort of wages then become a CEO!! If you want cheap holidays, then work for a travel agent or airline, if you want good money and time off, then work on the rigs, if you want the (laudable) satisfaction of saving lives, become a paramedic....the list is endless. Each career path offers many different 'perks', many not monetary. I am sure that most of us derive some sort of satisfaction from our careers, even if it's the camaraderie of our colleagues. Invariably we trade responsibility for money, we wouldn't all like the loneliness that a leadership position can bring. Jealousy plays a part, sure, but a lot of the anger is coming from people who have invested their savings in banks and have watched as terrible mis-management has slashed their value, at the same time as the people in charge are taking huge bonuses and salaries. 4) The banking industry is global. It decides the renumeration packages it needs to pay it's top talent to keep them. It's no different to football (and there's a group of people that generally I dislike and don't think are worth it) The difference is that a football team don't sit around a table deciding what each-others wages will be, it's a bidding process. Good post though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuta Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Post of the decade Good post though Thank you gents, sometimes I have my moments......not very often to be fair, but if you put an infinite amount of monkeys in a room, with an infinite amount of typewriters...... Different points of view make life interesting and I enjoy a well informed and articulate exchange, however I hate sensationalism and ill informed ranting - get me, with my state education and 5 GCSE's!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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