kdubya Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 But you don't argue against the 'lefty drivel' bit...happy with that can you please explain lefty drivel? as opposed to pointing out something that is simply wrong? I presume your world does not allow for challenge and simply has an air of acceptance and servitude if so I am sad for you, it shows no independent thought more a lets all be nice sheeple get fell in left right left right left right left. I am not left wing far from it in fact I consider myself right wing, however my pat hates are corruption and control something sadly prevalent in todays land of plod, still if your happy to see a kid thrown to the ground for nothing more than getting a bit carried away (child like you might say)then good for you,join the police you will fit in well, those who can and do see things objectively will see the act of kid tossing as a step to far, and the plot of actually who and what the police are being lost. KW It's a TORTOISE. Thank you well done arty got it wrong KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 well done arty got it wrong KW I think you might want to check your numbers again . Cause it is defo a Tortoise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I agree with Canthitathing about so many torches being used ( some even on e-bay i hear) but have to disagree with silpig. Having gone to our local display in Ilkley, it was made clear as we all started to gather and many times during the waiting period that we could should stay on the pavement. The copper moved the young man away, he didn't take hime out of shot and beat the hell out of him. We need to be careful with the words used, " Child", "youth", "young man" could all be applied to this, all have differnet meanings. KW, loved the dot-to-dot, brought back memories of childhood. Just seen the tortoise, brilliant! Edited July 12, 2012 by keg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think you might want to check your numbers again . Cause it is defo a Tortoise very good KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic1281 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think you might want to check your numbers again . Cause it is defo a Tortoise Brilliant!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debaser Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) can you please explain lefty drivel? as opposed to pointing out something that is simply wrong? I presume your world does not allow for challenge and simply has an air of acceptance and servitude if so I am sad for you, it shows no independent thought more a lets all be nice sheeple get fell in left right left right left right left. I am not left wing far from it in fact I consider myself right wing, however my pat hates are corruption and control something sadly prevalent in todays land of plod, still if your happy to see a kid thrown to the ground for nothing more than getting a bit carried away (child like you might say)then good for you,join the police you will fit in well, those who can and do see things objectively will see the act of kid tossing as a step to far, and the plot of actually who and what the police are being lost. KW well done arty got it wrong KW I see you allow for challenge. How about me challenging your quote of corruption....sadly prevalent in today's land of plod. Ok, so you think the torch security team were heavy handed, your view, but the quote about them being corrupt I'd suggest that's not true, certainly not prevalent. ATB Edited July 12, 2012 by debaser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I bet you had an exciting childhood Had a very exciting childhood, and because I had respect for others and good manners I got a lot of opportunities that my peers didn't. Kids pushing boundaries is nothing new, adults blindly opposing those who try to uphold those boundaries is a relatively modern blight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 It's not for me to draw parallels between Nazi Germany's management of the 1936 Olympics and our own in 2012, nor is it my habit to believe all I read in the papers, but here's food for thought... Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I see you allow for challenge. How about me challenging your quote of corruption....sadly prevalent in today's land of plod. Ok, so you think the torch security team were heavy handed, your view, but the quote about them being corrupt I'd suggest that's not true, certainly not prevalent. ATB I said there were two things IE corruption and control BOTH prevalent in plod land I did not say BOTH were present in this instance or was that fact to hard for you to decipher, keep eating fish products they WILL do you some good. KW adults blindly opposing those who try to uphold those boundaries is a relatively modern blight. yep camera phones really do spoil things in the modern world eh you cant get away with half you used to in the good old days. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think what's mostly going on here is people's interpretation of how the security guy and the kid ended up on the deck. We can't actually see what happened but I'm inclined to think they fell or stumbled to the ground rather than Kdubs interpretation that the kid was thrown to the ground. The thread started off with a misleading sensationalist title, just the type that suits a few on here. Same result but big difference and easy to spin either way by the looks of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think what's mostly going on here is people's interpretation of how the security guy and the kid ended up on the deck. We can't actually see what happened but I'm inclined to think they fell or stumbled to the ground rather than Kdubs interpretation that the kid was thrown to the ground. The thread started off with a misleading sensationalist title, just the type that suits a few on here. Same result but big difference and easy to spin either way by the looks of it. 1st off it was not a security guy it was plod from the met (keeping up the track record) secondly I can tell a push from a fall thank you, now the thing is, if security is so tight they had a "security bubble" how come THREE kids have managed to burst it, whole thing is crock of brown do do, its just a shame the route does not go on to dover and over the cliffs letting the lemmings follow whilst tugging their tadgers in the excitement of it all. KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debaser Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I said there were two things IE corruption and control BOTH prevalent in plod land I did not say BOTH were present in this instance or was that fact to hard for you to decipher, keep eating fish products they WILL do you some good. KW yep camera phones really do spoil things in the modern world eh you cant get away with half you used to in the good old days. KW I did understand that you were not referring to the torch escort when you said corruption is prevelant amongst the police. I'm saying that your wrong and it's not. You did previously mention that one should allow challenge! So I'm challenging you with your corruption remark. I would be gratefull, if you should reply, you could do so without insults. ATB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) it seems it has happened lol http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/23/three-arrested-met-police-corruption crash hat on cant see how corruption has anything to do with this debate Edited July 12, 2012 by storme37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I clicked on Thunderbird's link and am normally reasonably tolerant of the drivel written by the Guardian but in this case lost the will to live after the first few lines. As a Telegraph reader I am probably horizontally opposed to the views in the Telegraph anyway but like the start of this thread, the authorities are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't take precautions over terrorism. We can take things too far as I believe we do with some airport security checks where a clearly untrained person is given a huge amount of power. Considering all the external pressures, the police do a great job in this country. I have only had reason to be involved with them twice outside certificate renewals etc. Both times I was caught speeding on the motorway. I sat there, admitted to it, and I was dealt with professionally, courteously and with a sense of humour. I remember Scargill commenting about the UK being a police state during the miners strike, likening it to Chile. Interestingly despite being a firebrand socialist, he never went to live in a totally socialist country. What made me laugh was he could not see the irony in supporting flying pickets and the close shop, both of which were so anti democratic as to be dictatorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debaser Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 it seems it has happened lol http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/23/three-arrested-met-police-corruption crash hat on cant see how corruption has anything to do with this debate To answer the above, your right, the issue of corruption has nothing to do with the thread topic. However Kdubya stated that corruption is prevalent in the police and that one should be allowed to challenge. I took prevalent to mean "Widespread" and allowed to challange to be challenging untruths, wrongs etc. So thats what I'm doing, I'm sure if needed I could search for a number of hyperlinks where police officers have been arrested for corruption. However I still do not believe that corruption is prevalent/widespread in the UK. ATB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 i think todays police are alot less corrupt that say the 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'm not a fan of the Grauniad by any stretch of the imagination and neither am I saying the police (as a body) are acting independently of Government. However what I am saying is that there are things happening in this country which worry me, similar to what happened in the US after 11/9, with dissenters shouted down as 'unpatriotic'. This, coupled with the 'ideal' of what the Government thinks it wants, then endless 'committees' deciding how to achieve it, public services and private companies getting involved (and we all know what a total mess public sector procurement can be) the end result being something of a 'perfect storm' of taxpayers dosh going down the chod bin. As Mungler here has pointed out more than once, civil liberties, once removed, rarely if ever return. This torch worship (and various other similar things such as the censorship and hold that corporate sponsors have over the Olympics) troubles me, and I suggest if you care about civil liberties it should trouble you too. Some of that Guardian article might be factually incorrect however I seriously doubt much of it actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I haven't read through all the bull that's being posted here and am replying from page 2 of 5 but the way I look at it is quite simple. There was a man/male/teenage child on a bike who rode up behind the torch where he shouldn't have been and then cut across towards it. We now know he was a minor but at the time he was a male acting out of order. He could have had a knife, he could have had bad intentions for the runner. The security guy didn't have time to mull over the situation as we have and he didn't have a "look at the slow motion" option. He barged in there to remove the potential threat and rightly so. Yes we now know it was a kid who wasn't armed but he shouldn't have been there. The security chap treated him as a possible threat and nobody was hurt. He was neutralised and sent on his way. It looks over the top but if he had let the "kid" pass and the runner had been stabbed by some nutter who wanted to create a scene I bet you would all be saying "where were security? Bunch of useless idiots!". Kid was in a place he shouldn't have been and the security guy nailed him. What's the problem? i 100% agree with the above. all this talk of being thrown in front of a moving vehicle is TOSH. the cop had a split second to react and in my opinion did a fabulous job of getting the youth out of the bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smig4373 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 12 pages of predictable cynical argumentative ill informed rubbish...god bless pigeon watch...you must be so proud..... You lot can handbag it out amongst ya selves...ive done with this ****.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 12 pages of predictable cynical argumentative ill informed rubbish...god bless pigeon watch...you must be so proud..... You lot can handbag it out amongst ya selves...ive done with this ****.. Don't forget, you are part of Pigeon Watch and see fit to comment on numerous threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smig4373 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Don't forget, you are part of Pigeon Watch and see fit to comment on numerous threads. Not anymore BB....ive done with it... All very preditable and quite frankly,boring...reading the same ole tosh from the posters...apart from 1 or 2 with a brain in there heads...the rest just jump on the bandwagon thats popular at the time. Mods....please delete my acct...im done with PW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Not anymore BB....ive done with it... All very preditable and quite frankly,boring...reading the same ole tosh from the posters...apart from 1 or 2 with a brain in there heads...the rest just jump on the bandwagon thats popular at the time. Mods....please delete my acct...im done with PW. bye bye bye bye KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) To answer the above, your right, the issue of corruption has nothing to do with the thread topic. However Kdubya stated that corruption is prevalent in the police and that one should be allowed to challenge. I took prevalent to mean "Widespread" and allowed to challange to be challenging untruths, wrongs etc. So thats what I'm doing, I'm sure if needed I could search for a number of hyperlinks where police officers have been arrested for corruption. However I still do not believe that corruption is prevalent/widespread in the UK. ATB the chief inspector of constabulary might disagree with you? yes I know it was 1998 but I have seen nothing so far that goes away from this report http://www.independent.co.uk/news/high-levels-of-police-corruption-worry-inspectorate-1179591.html KW Edited July 12, 2012 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Not anymore BB....ive done with it... All very preditable and quite frankly,boring...reading the same ole tosh from the posters...apart from 1 or 2 with a brain in there heads...the rest just jump on the bandwagon thats popular at the time. Mods....please delete my acct...im done with PW. I hope you mean my dot to dot of the Tortoise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I hope you mean my dot to dot of the Tortoise. must admit 10/10 for that one KW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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