Kes Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Evening all, I have been advised that my constabulary will not allow a .223 to be used on deer - " you will not get deerstalking on a .223 in Cheshire". As far as I am aware, the Deer Acts energy requrements allow a .223 for munjac and Chinese water deer (correct Mv and bullet weight). However, if you cant get a condition permitting this then it is illegal. This means that a .223 in Cheshire can only be used for fox. Is this the norm elsewhere or is it unusual ? Just interested since the decision is not open to question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) they are talking complete rubbish, put in for it again and ask for a refusal in writing as its perfectly legal caliber for muntjac and CWD, my 223 is conditioned for deerstalking and doesn't specify muntjac etc but it shouldn't need to its up to me to know what it can be used on legally. who out of interest gave you the info ask for their manager as clearly they do not know the law. Edited August 20, 2012 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokie Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Complete tosh . If they want proof of a potential stalk . Get one booked with muntjacstalker on here .he's based in Bedfordshire but I can guarantee you a good day out . Ask him for a covering letter to say you have on booked . Job done Some constabularies think they can make the rules . It's not true then can only enforce them . If your a member of Basc ask them for advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Evening all, I have been advised that my constabulary will not allow a .223 to be used on deer - " you will not get deerstalking on a .223 in Cheshire". As far as I am aware, the Deer Acts energy requrements allow a .223 for munjac and Chinese water deer (correct Mv and bullet weight). However, if you cant get a condition permitting this then it is illegal. This means that a .223 in Cheshire can only be used for fox. Is this the norm elsewhere or is it unusual ? Just interested since the decision is not open to question. I had it on mine and im in Cheshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I had it on mine and im in Cheshire Thanks Magman - Its renewal time and I'm wary of saying too much, Equally, I have to ensure others dont have similar problems -is your cert a transfer from another authority area to Cheshire or was it issued by Cheshire? Cheshire seem to respect the 'transfer obligations' but my refusal was absolute - so if I challenge it, which I intend to, it has to be on firm ground. Thanks all for you comments I will post the story as it develops. Cheers Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Thanks Magman - Its renewal time and I'm wary of saying too much, Equally, I have to ensure others dont have similar problems -is your cert a transfer from another authority area to Cheshire or was it issued by Cheshire? Cheshire seem to respect the 'transfer obligations' but my refusal was absolute - so if I challenge it, which I intend to, it has to be on firm ground. Thanks all for you comments I will post the story as it develops. Cheers Kes No transfer mate but had to have in writing permission with Muntjac on the said land and they did check that the area had munty on it They also checked i had permission to be there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Plus if it helps you can see it with your own eyes as i still have it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Good of you and appreciated but this one I need to nail personally as there's a bit more to it but I will Pm you when I have the final outcome. Regards, Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 kes, you want get deer stalking anywhere in england with a 223, what you need to ask for is a condition to take small deer (muntjac and CWD) with your 223 as allowed by the deer act. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Get BASC on the case if you're a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 ask for 'All Other Lawfal' it will cover you for smaller deer species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 All - thanks for your comments. I have a red deer stalk booked - without an accompanied stalk its a 'no' here for a deer gun, No experience - no .243!! As for the .22,3 I will leave that until I get the cert confirmed as I have also asked for a .17 hornet and may not get that, so I need to keep my powder dry overall. Especially about conditions I have no faith that BASC can help - or perhaps that they want to. I am a member but for how long is anyone's guess. I need to pursue this as other shooters would and achieve what is reasonable and not unnecessarily restrictive, then perhaps I can help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhawk Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I got cwd and muntjac for 223 all i had to do was show a letter from land owner and get them to clear the land in kent, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 All - thanks for your comments. I have a red deer stalk booked - without an accompanied stalk its a 'no' here for a deer gun, No experience - no .243!! As for the .22,3 I will leave that until I get the cert confirmed as I have also asked for a .17 hornet and may not get that, so I need to keep my powder dry overall. Especially about conditions I have no faith that BASC can help - or perhaps that they want to. I am a member but for how long is anyone's guess. I need to pursue this as other shooters would and achieve what is reasonable and not unnecessarily restrictive, then perhaps I can help them. Kes' Sorry if I have missed something or am being dumb - but you are asking for a .223 for Deer, I get that bit. But you don't have any access to CWD or Muntjac shooting? (You have booked a stalk to get the .243 conditioned?) Without valid reason or access then you are going to be banging your head against a wall to get the .223 for deer. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotgun sam Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Roe on my 223 but that is in Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Kes' Sorry if I have missed something or am being dumb - but you are asking for a .223 for Deer, I get that bit. But you don't have any access to CWD or Muntjac shooting? (You have booked a stalk to get the .243 conditioned?) Without valid reason or access then you are going to be banging your head against a wall to get the .223 for deer. Mike Kes, Mike has summed the rules/situation perfectly. A small deer condition for a .22c/f is not automatically given for the asking but treated in exactly the same way as when any deer caliber, such as your (hopefully) .243. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Kes' Sorry if I have missed something or am being dumb - but you are asking for a .223 for Deer, I get that bit. But you don't have any access to CWD or Muntjac shooting? (You have booked a stalk to get the .243 conditioned?) Without valid reason or access then you are going to be banging your head against a wall to get the .223 for deer. Mike Understood but I have deer on the property I shoot some of which are Munjac and I have an open cert on the .223 anyway and shoot this land for fox - all of which the FEO knows. He also knows I have the landowners and the shooting tenants permission - formal slip - so what is the problem allowing Munjac ? I guess its because he doesnt believe me - he is not aware though that I have a witness to the deer tracks and will be submitting a signed statement to this effect - why so many hoops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark@mbb Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I have Muntjac and Chinese on my fac under my 223 i also have a 243 with just deer but the 223 has them listed and if you book Muntjac stalking you should be able to have Muntjac on your ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I have Muntjac and Chinese on my fac under my 223 i also have a 243 with just deer but the 223 has them listed and if you book Muntjac stalking you should be able to have Muntjac on your ticket Mark, I'm sure you are right but, whtever happened to a part time keeper being believed when he says there are deer on the land and shows the police photographs of the prints? You are rightnthough, I will get a .243 and deer on my .223 by 'playing the games' I'd rather we had knowledgeable police who recognised that , as a group, we are a basically truthful, honest and reliable lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter.123 Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 What a load of bull!!! Completely legal and more than enough for muntjac and cwd!! On my fac it sais: (a)the lawful shooting of deer (b)fox and protection of wildlife and management of any estate ©humane killing of any other lawful animal (d) the shooting of animals for protection of other animals or humans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 What a load of bull!!! Completely legal and more than enough for muntjac and cwd!! On my fac it sais: (a)the lawful shooting of deer (b)fox and protection of wildlife and management of any estate ©humane killing of any other lawful animal (d) the shooting of animals for protection of other animals or humans At a guess those conditions refer to the expanding ammo only and not to what quarry you may shoot with your rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter.123 Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 That's on a separate bit to the expanding ammunition, that's the conditions from the chief constable underneath it sais blah rifle with blah moderator with expanding ammunition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing-Bong Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 At a guess those conditions refer to the expanding ammo only and not to what quarry you may shoot with your rifles. Mine says the same but with the inclusion of "small species of deer" and thats on 22.250. My FEO granted the conditions on the basis that the farms I shoot on do have problems with Muntjac and CWD. I have permission to shoot the aforementioned species from my landowners. I also have the other conditions relating to humane dispatch and public protection although I don't know why as I didn't request them. On the request of the condition my Feo was suprised at the fact that these deer occur where I shoot, on the marshes of SE Norfolk, to coin an american phrase, "go figure". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 I also have the other conditions relating to humane dispatch and public protection although I don't know why as I didn't request them I still think that some of you are not understanding the conditions written on your FAC's. I'm sure you are confusing the expanding ammo conditions with the rifle conditions. The wording you quote above is usually contained within the standard expanding ammo conditions that everyone, who has a fac for shooting live quarry, has. This condition relates only to what expanding ammo may be used for IF your rifles are also so conditioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Ok, you have no permision to hunt CWD or munties in England nor Roe in Scotland. No good reason exists, if you had a .243 conditioned for deer already an argument could be made that you do not have good reason to also posses a .223 conditioned for deer. I shouldn't go to court on this one if i was you its a very bad plan I am not saying the legislation is correct but it is being applied in this instance, were does it say get a gun conditioned for quarry you do not have access to? most areas will not add quarry on a rifle you do not have rights to shoot. could i be granted a .375 h&h to hunt boar as i have always fancied one? no not without some boar to shoot legally and a reason why i couldn't use an existing gun from the cabinet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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