Best Cartridge for Pigeon

[dougall]

Fenboy,

whilst I agree 7.5s do work for decoying,especially in summer when the pigeon are playing ball and coming in nicely,the OP talked about a general all round cartridge.BASC code of practice refers to decent patterns and No6 being the most usual for pigeon.....having watched Will Garfitts video I cannot recall him making any comment about cartridges at all in the video?Happy to be corrected ? Whilst you and other experienced shots on PW favour 7.5s as a general steer to someone new to pigeon/crow/general all round rough shooting I reckon 6s are a sound place to start....yes 7.5 work but knockdown oomph at 40 yards + or those up the rear shots then I personally think they are borderline.7.5s are a clay load,they will break a clay at daft ranges,but clays are built to break. I have never seen 7.5s in game/pigeon loaded shells.Yes 7.5s throw great patterns but widening your metaphor of pins and nails would you rather a boulder fell on your head or a pebble from the same height? Or try throwing a pin at a wall from 10 yards then chuck a 6 inch nail....if you were the wall which would you prefer?!

atb.

[humperdingle]

You'd think depleted uranium is the only option going by some accounts

 

Use a cart with a decent amount of shot, at a decent size, and - IMO most importantly - keep within a decent range.

 

FOR ME, that means something around 30-32 gram load, size 6 shot and within around 30-35 yards.

 

If I see pigeons beyond that approximate range, I leave it. A good way to judge, is to place a marker decoy at that range

[David BASC]

Range judging, or should I say good range judging is very important indeed I agree!

 

David

[Guest cookoff013]

the only reason people shoot 7.5s is because they are cheaper than pigeon shells. thats it.

a good friend of mine chatted with a manufacturer, and asked "why dont you make a pigeon shell in 1oz #6 ?"

 

the reply he got was really funny. "dont be so stupid !"

 

even though they sell 1oz game loads in a #6 fr light game guns they are severely more expensive.

 

on the continent, they sell "white" shells, bland 32g #6 shells for bird shooting, in plastic bags, no special boxes and crates, in bags.

 

no branding on the shell, just 12-70mm and 32g #6

[chrispti]

Not one gunshop has ever given me a clay cartridge when I asked for some pigeon cartridges.

 

People that use clay cartridges do so because they are cheap. If pigeon cartridges were the same price or less, I bet the majority would use them.

[fenboy]

Fenboy,

whilst I agree 7.5s do work for decoying,especially in summer when the pigeon are playing ball and coming in nicely,the OP talked about a general all round cartridge.BASC code of practice refers to decent patterns and No6 being the most usual for pigeon.....having watched Will Garfitts video I cannot recall him making any comment about cartridges at all in the video?Happy to be corrected ? Whilst you and other experienced shots on PW favour 7.5s as a general steer to someone new to pigeon/crow/general all round rough shooting I reckon 6s are a sound place to start....yes 7.5 work but knockdown oomph at 40 yards + or those up the rear shots then I personally think they are borderline.7.5s are a clay load,they will break a clay at daft ranges,but clays are built to break. I have never seen 7.5s in game/pigeon loaded shells.Yes 7.5s throw great patterns but widening your metaphor of pins and nails would you rather a boulder fell on your head or a pebble from the same height? Or try throwing a pin at a wall from 10 yards then chuck a 6 inch nail....if you were the wall which would you prefer?!

atb.

 

As I stated earlier I do not favour 7.5s over 6s in fact my favourite shell at the moment is hull superfast 29g of 6 .

If a newcomer asks what cartridge my answer is 30g of 6 , if they ask will 7.5s be ok for pigeon my answer is yes they will be fine .

As for a pebble or boulder I will take the boulder please as if they are dropping then the boulder will be getting quicker and therefore hit me with more energy , but shot at a target is going upward !, but when it comes down again I would like to be under the 7.5s for the same reason

[Cosd]

This argument goes on and on!

 

I wonder out of all the people who SO disagree with the use of 28g 7.5's for pigeons have actually tried them and found them inadequate? Off course the OP has stated he hasn't got on with them, and that's fair enough. But I really would like to know how many of the anti's who have posted on this thread have had first hand experience?

 

I put my hands up and admit I too was sceptical about them even though I'd been told by people I know and respect that they are more than man enough for the job. I bought my first batch of them not because of cost but because the guns shop didn't have any 6's in stock and I was desperate. I am well and truly converted having seen them perform first hand. So if I can save some money and do the job as intended then I don't see why I should go back to using a more expensive cartridge.

 

I keep hearing about this summer/winter difference, and once I try them in the winter as well I will decide if I have found an all year round cart or whether I need one for summer and another for winter.

 

 

Cos

[chrispti]

This argument goes on and on!

 

I wonder out of all the people who SO disagree with the use of 28g 7.5's for pigeons have actually tried them and found them inadequate? Off course the OP has stated he hasn't got on with them, and that's fair enough. But I really would like to know how many of the anti's who have posted on this thread have had first hand experience?

 

I put my hands up and admit I too was sceptical about them even though I'd been told by people I know and respect that they are more than man enough for the job. I bought my first batch of them not because of cost but because the guns shop didn't have any 6's in stock and I was desperate. I am well and truly converted having seen them perform first hand. So if I can save some money and do the job as intended then I don't see why I should go back to using a more expensive cartridge.

 

I keep hearing about this summer/winter difference, and once I try them in the winter as well I will decide if I have found an all year round cart or whether I need one for summer and another for winter.

 

 

Cos

 

Plenty of first hand experience thanks. I even gave them another Chance recently, and I still think 30yrds max through 3/4, full choke.

 

I'm not a massive fan of 6's either, to be honest.

 

28g -30g 5's are my choice.

[wymberley]

Energy density (ED) is the best indicator of penetrative capability. For any two pellets having the same ED, then the smaller diameter one will be more lethally effective.

[T-Bolt94]

I agree that 7.5s are capable of taking down a pigeon at sensible ranges but so is throwing the cartridge at the pigeon at sensible ranges. My biggest concern is that unless you hit them with the full load often what comes down is still flapping or at the outer limits of the good range you wound the bird or get a plum of feathers. I am trying to save some time, and mainly money on finding the best load for rough shooting from which I have come to the conclusion from the above is something a bit harder hitting than 28g so 30g or 32g in shot size 6. As a student I have to work on a fairly low budget whilst trying to get the best for that!! I appreciate everyones replies and contributions. Thanks

[chrispti]

Energy density (ED) is the best indicator of penetrative capability. For any two pellets having the same ED, then the smaller diameter one will be more lethally effective.

 

Surely lethality will be to do with the energy transfer, and that will depend on the shot antimony......

Edited September 7, 2012 by chrispti

[Cosd]

I agree that 7.5s are capable of taking down a pigeon at sensible ranges but so is throwing the cartridge at the pigeon at sensible ranges. My biggest concern is that unless you hit them with the full load often what comes down is still flapping or at the outer limits of the good range you wound the bird or get a plum of feathers. I am trying to save some time, and mainly money on finding the best load for rough shooting from which I have come to the conclusion from the above is something a bit harder hitting than 28g so 30g or 32g in shot size 6. As a student I have to work on a fairly low budget whilst trying to get the best for that!! I appreciate everyones replies and contributions. Thanks

 

I respect your opinion but all the downsides you e stated on using 7.5's apply to a 6 as well as a 5 shot.

 

Please don't tell me there is any shooter on here who hasn't hit a bird outside of the pattern density where they have had a bird fly off with a puff of feathers, or dropped a bird thats landed still flapping.

 

Neither my kill ratio nor hit and fly away percentage has changed, I prefer to decoy at 25 - 30 yards but I have no problem dropping them at 45 yards plus. This in mind I think I am using a more than capable round to humanely kill my quarry.

 

Cos

[joknob]

Personally I think 7.5’s are a tad small for live quarry shooting.

 

Remember shotgun pellets kill by penetrating though non vital tissues such as feather, skin, muscle to hit vital tissues such as major blood vessels, heart, lungs or central nervous system.

 

Basic physics says smaller lighter things accelerate faster, but slow down faster too when they hit resistance.

 

So as you may have seen at the end of their effective range you are evidently hitting the birds with a decent pattern, hence the puff of feathers, but the pelts aren’t getting though.

 

So to answer your question of what’s the best pigeon cartridge, in my opinion its 32g no 6 generally, but 5’s will also do a perfectly good job too I agree.

 

David

ive shot pheasants'partridge and hares on the rothwell shoot in north lincs,i use cylinder and quarter choke all the time with 28 gr 7.5s and never had a problem unless ive not given them the required lead.{theres some high birds on there aswell although the hares can,nt get as high !} craig

[chrispti]

humanely kill my quarry.

 

And thats all that really matters

[T-Bolt94]

I respect your opinion but all the downsides you e stated on using 7.5's apply to a 6 as well as a 5 shot.

 

Please don't tell me there is any shooter on here who hasn't hit a bird outside of the pattern density where they have had a bird fly off with a puff of feathers, or dropped a bird thats landed still flapping.

 

Neither my kill ratio nor hit and fly away percentage has changed, I prefer to decoy at 25 - 30 yards but I have no problem dropping them at 45 yards plus. This in mind I think I am using a more than capable round to humanely kill my quarry.

 

Cos

 

Obviously it is going to happen that some birds won't be killed cleanly, however, I would prefer that be the exception rather than a rule! This is why I am trying to chose the best load for my needs. I do suspect this will require some degree of trial and error.

[wymberley]

Surely lethality will be to do with the energy transfer, and that will depend on the shot antimony......

 

I would imagine that the guy whose work enabled me to make my statement naturally assumed the use of a game /live quarry cartridge for game/live quarry. Obviously, having a higher antimony content in the shot which is traditionally greater in cartridges for use on clay pigeon than those for use with live quarry will have a detrimental effect on energy transfer. The use of ED is beneficial in considering the effectiveness of different shot material when comparing the non toxic variety with lead.

[motty]

Yes, this old topic rumbles on. I'm sure a moderator will be along in a minute to lock it.

 

If we look at the pros and cons, that helps us to choose which shot size to use.

 

A 28gm 7.5 shell has a huge amount of pellets compared to the same weight of 5 or 6 shot. A good thing.

A shell loaded with 5 or 6 carries more downrange energy than 7.5 shot.

Your average clay cartridge will normally give the user less felt recoil than say a 32gm 6.

Most clay loads are cheaper than your average pigeon/game cartridge.

 

If i think back over many pigeon 'sessions', i can recall what range i shoot my birds. I would say 80% of the pigeons i shoot are between the 20 - 30 yard bracket. This is what i'm sure most decoyers wish to achieve. Forty yarders are killable with a 7.5 shot. I take on a few 50 yarders and find i can kill them cleanly with a size 7 - my favourite shotsize for decoying. If i had days where i had to shoot at pigeons that were consistently over 50 yards, i would perhaps opt for a 32gm 5/6 and tighten my choke or let them be. Since this doesn't happen i am happy to use 7 or 7.5 (mostly) for my decoying.

There really isn't much point in me paying an extra 50 or 60 quid a thousand extra for a load that is only really ( in my opinion) any better than what i use, after 45 yards.

[mossy835]

out today and hit a pigeon 35 yards with eley 28 grams 7/12 and it was stone dead.thats all i use for pigeons for years

[Cosd]

Yes, this old topic rumbles on. I'm sure a moderator will be along in a minute to lock it.

 

If we look at the pros and cons, that helps us to choose which shot size to use.

 

A 28gm 7.5 shell has a huge amount of pellets compared to the same weight of 5 or 6 shot. A good thing.

A shell loaded with 5 or 6 carries more downrange energy than 7.5 shot.

Your average clay cartridge will normally give the user less felt recoil than say a 32gm 6.

Most clay loads are cheaper than your average pigeon/game cartridge.

 

If i think back over many pigeon 'sessions', i can recall what range i shoot my birds. I would say 80% of the pigeons i shoot are between the 20 - 30 yard bracket. This is what i'm sure most decoyers wish to achieve. Forty yarders are killable with a 7.5 shot. I take on a few 50 yarders and find i can kill them cleanly with a size 7 - my favourite shotsize for decoying. If i had days where i had to shoot at pigeons that were consistently over 50 yards, i would perhaps opt for a 32gm 5/6 and tighten my choke or let them be. Since this doesn't happen i am happy to use 7 or 7.5 (mostly) for my decoying.

There really isn't much point in me paying an extra 50 or 60 quid a thousand extra for a load that is only really ( in my opinion) any better than what i use, after 45 yards.

 

Very elequently put.

 

I agree totally with you on everything you said. I also respect everyone has a choice and an opinion also. We can all agree to disagree on this one me thinks.

[T-Bolt94]

Put the 32g 6s to the test today with a bit of rough shooting rather than Decoys and in my opinion the 6 is much more suited to rough shooting where you tend to have the longer range shots and spare of the moment decisions. 7.5s I think would be my choice for decoying also as they are a little more caring on the shoulder and seem more than suitable at 35yards.

[Guest cookoff013]

ive shot pheasants'partridge and hares on the rothwell shoot in north lincs,i use cylinder and quarter choke all the time with 28 gr 7.5s and never had a problem unless ive not given them the required lead.{theres some high birds on there aswell although the hares can,nt get as high !} craig

 

!

 

 

hares with a 7.5 ?

[wymberley]

!

 

 

hares with a 7.5 ?

 

Wanna guess the range?

 

Edit: PS That should do it!

Edited September 9, 2012 by wymberley

[fenboy]

Wanna guess the range?

 

Edit: PS That should do it!

 

I will have a guess 207 yards

[Constantinos]

Basically after 3 pages discussion - it's whatever you are comfortable/confident (since half the battle is in your mind) with and whatever you can afford!!

 

My personal preference is 30g 6s/5s which covers most of my shooting - decoying crows and pigeons, driven, rough, walked up etc etc, whilst a friend is happy with 28g 7.5s for the same purposes.

[T-Bolt94]

Thanks everyone for your contributions!!