chris o Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hi guys hope you all doing well. To start the story off I have just gone through a messy split and got my own place. As I have a dog which me and the ex agreed we would share her and she has bee true to her word so far but for some reason dont see it working. So been looking round for one of my own and lone behold a guy off the pheasant shoot his lab is in pup. I know the mum well and seen her work very well and same for the sire. Only thing im unsure of is theres no papers for either and he selling from 300 and up. Now is it worth paying that sought of money for a pup with out papers? As said I have seen both dogs work and they dont half work as already said. What your guys opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No papers, no health tests - that is a decision for you. Our labs are hip scored, elbow scored, Annual eye tests, Optigen tested for PRA, DNA tested for CNM and Exercise induced collapse, these are all very real conditions that may effect a lab' - health testing and selective breeding will reduce/remove these conditions in time (Not poor hips, as that is as much environmental) - so you have to decide for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 personally I wouldn't buy a lab without hip and elbow tests done, guessing at that price neither have been done. When you look into long term costs on a dog the purchase price is the small bit and it is better getting a decent pup. When they are registered and had the recommended tests done you can now go onto the kennel club website and look them up and the ancestors and get an idea of how well bred they are and as more are tested you can see how the hip scores etc of the parents and grandparents compare. Cheap pups you take a punt on but with a lab if you end up with hip dysplasia at 5 you have a crippled dog on expensive medication for the remainder of its life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom&Dexter Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Personal choice I personally wouldent buy one There are plenty quality labs bred with good proven lines and all the tests done Its hard enough getting a good dog give yourself the best chance buy picking from a well though out, planned and tested breeding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Reflected in the price.Do you intend to get a bitch?are you going to breed? I would also state that you agree to buy subject to vets inspection,whilst hips are hard to tell when young a vet will know if a real problem from outset. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Also consider that if you fancy doing working tests during the closed season you will need a KC registered dog. Edited October 9, 2012 by PERCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Personally I wouldn't have a dog given that hasn't got a pedigree never mind buy one. I like to know where a dog has come from before I consider it. Too many dogs are produced irresponsibly and KC reg is a good way of making people responsible. It is also essential to know the generic health. Dogs still get stolen and sold on as pedigree no papers so out of principle pedigree is a must for me regardless of whether your intention is to breed from it or not. Best regards, Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETO Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) If I was to buy a dog, of any breeding - be it pedigree or cross (like my own gundogs) I'd want to see the health tests done on the parents. In Labs I believe Eyes, Elbows and Hips are the most important. My crossbreeds parents were hip and elbow tested (Lab Dad and Spaniel Mum) the pups I got were clear by parentage. I obviously didn't get papers but as long as I got healthy pups then thats all that matters. However I have to say even with health tests (and when asking if they are health tested you have to be clear on what you mean, too many people think health tests are just a check up at the vets) you aren't provided with healthy pups. The health tests are there to prove that there is a greater chance of healthier pups, but this is not always the case as with anything. (I like to balance things..) Edited October 9, 2012 by ETO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PERCE Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 My crossbreeds parents were hip and elbow tested (Lab Dad and Spaniel Mum) the pups I got were clear by parentage. Clear by parentage of exactly what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETO Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Clear by parentage of exactly what? Hip and elbow. I don't remember the numbers - have slept since then and I don't plan to breed from mine so I only needed to know they were healthy. You can't health test dogs until they are a year old. So all pups with health tested parents are clear by parentage, unless their own health testing proves otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No papers, no health tests - that is a decision for you. Our labs are hip scored, elbow scored, Annual eye tests, Optigen tested for PRA, DNA tested for CNM and Exercise induced collapse, these are all very real conditions that may effect a lab' - health testing and selective breeding will reduce/remove these conditions in time (Not poor hips, as that is as much environmental) - so you have to decide for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Sorry to hear of your home troubles Chris, I wouldn't but you need to handle that with tact you knowing the owners of both dog and bitch so they dont take it as an insult. For free then maybee but if the dog goes blind just as its comming to be usefull you just wasted a lot of time and energy. If its hips give up young are you prepared to put it down - drugs and surgery are a non starter as far as i am conserned. That said no good buying a lot of pups that have the latest fashoinable sire mated to a rubbish bitch that has yet to prove her worth. A good prospect will cost in the realms of £550-£650 as a puppy £1500 will get you an older dog thats just starting. All said and done though although selection of breeding animals can help with inherited conditions it is not true to say that the resultant offspring wont suffer some of the inherited condtions the breeder tried to avoid, generally it just lowers the risks. if i can be of further help you know were i am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hip and elbow. I don't remember the numbers - have slept since then and I don't plan to breed from mine so I only needed to know they were healthy. You can't health test dogs until they are a year old. So all pups with health tested parents are clear by parentage, unless their own health testing proves otherwise. you're getting confused Hips and elbow problems are nothing to do with clear by parentage, that would be something that would show on a DNA test. For example pointers can get VWD but if both parents have been tested clear the progeny will be "clear by parentage" Hips it gives a starting point but much is not known about how much is genetic and how much is how they are treated in the first 12 months, it helps to start with good breeding as that is what you can control but its no guarantee if you let the pup jump everywhere that the pup won't suffer problems. I had mine done at 4 and she scored 3:3 which is very good but you would expect the figures to go up as they age and more wear for want of any other word occurs. You'll notice the majority of lab breeders will have them tested as young as possible so the scores are as good as they possibly can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hip scores on Labs are comming down 0/0 is now being recorded in some dogs. Its no garantee that two low scores give pups witch all have low scores- but its a heck of a lot more likely you will get a potential low scoring pup than breeding two high scorers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole for a tad more money you cold get a dog with full health test etc and could save you a fortune in the future it's just not worth the risk IMO. Also don't get common lab get a working bred golden retriever instead I'm slightly biased of course I don't like to follow the crowed that's for sure..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris o Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well took all your advice guys. Found a cracking litter for 300 with all parents details to be seen all vet checks were done and I'm very pleased. Picked the dog had my heart set on another bitch but the only one they had wasm gone but got my eye on 2 of the dogs so in a weeks time I'm going back to have a better look and get them 2 in a strange area and see how they cope wich one reacts better to change and is more bold. The method I have always used but I have never had a bad dog by doing this. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remy 700 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 GOOD luck with your pup mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris o Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Cheerts mate. And seen as it gunna be a boy thought of the name fenton for a laugh. But undiceded about it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remy 700 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 FENTON I am gonna p.m you a name I like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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