Police Request?

[GingerCat]

Look, I haven't read all the posts and in not going to as I get they are on the general "bash a cop" theme that is becoming only to usual on here. Here is my 2 pence worth, if I should be called to a report of a man in a field with a gun, and if he has no means of proving he is allowed there and I can't raise a land owner I will most probably arrest him on suspicion or armed trespass and worry about the rest later.

Not to do so will most probably cost my job and to be honest in this day and age that's not going to happen, like it or not with all the macho bs aside if your allowed there you can prove it, if you can't then your getting a ride in the free bus and a cup of **** tea whilst I investigate.

You can debate this till the cows come home with loads of offences. We are not the bad guys, we work with what we have, a lot of us shoot and were raised in the country, if u want to argue with me in a field with your gun then your welcome too, I will call the boys with their guns to contain and disarm you.

We can debate the nasty rozzers being above their station if u like and tasering blind guys etc and whilst We are at it bring up untested firearms ownership and a statutory test, is that a good idea? After all if pigs can't tell the difference after 2 months of firearms training how can u?? Personally I am amazed at the poor weapon handling I see at the clay range and even more so in the field. Stupid comments will bring questions and they may not be nice. Having and owning a gun does not make you safe, I don't care how long u have had it for. Neither do I care to listen to rubbish arguments re my powers in relation to the law, I'm reminded every day by everyone i arrest that i am out of order it unlawful in my actions, including the solicitors etc, haven't lost a case yet.

For the record I have 3 permissions and only 1 in writing, if I can't raise the landowner when needed I know the consequences and only hope someone would be kind enough to move me on, personally I wouldn't be so kind as I have found it often bites you in the butt.

Edited October 30, 2012 by GingerCat

[welsh1]

Look, I haven't read all the posts and in not going to as I get they are on the general "bash a cop" theme that is becoming only to usual on here. Here is my 2 pence worth, if I should be called to a report of a man in a field with a gun, and if he has no means of proving he is allowed there and I can't raise a land owner I will most probably arrest him on suspicion or armed trespass and worry about the rest later.

Not to do so will most probably cost my job and to be honest in this day and age that's not going to happen, like it or not with all the macho bs aside if your allowed there you can prove it, if you can't then your getting a ride in the free bus and a cup of **** tea whilst I investigate.

You can debate this till the cows come home with loads of offences. We are not the bad guys, we work with what we have, a lot of us shoot and were raised in the country, if u want to argue with me in a field with your gun then your welcome too, I will call the boys with their guns to contain and disarm you.

We can debate the nasty rozzers being above their station if u like and tasering blind guys etc and whilst We are at it bring up untested firearms ownership and a statutory test, is that a good idea? After all if pigs can't tell the difference after 2 months of firearms training how can u?? Personally I am amazed at the poor weapon handling I see at the clay range and even more so in the field. Stupid comments will bring questions and they may not be nice. Having and owning a gun does not make you safe, I don't care how long u have had it for. Neither do I care to listen to rubbish arguments re my powers in relation to the law, I'm reminded every day by everyone i arrest that i am out of order it unlawful in my actions, including the solicitors etc, haven't lost a case yet.

For the record I have 3 permissions and only 1 in writing, if I can't raise the landowner when needed I know the consequences and only hope someone would be kind enough to move me on, personally I wouldn't be so kind as I have found it often bites you in the butt.

 

Calm down, it's only a forum and we are all keyboard warriors on here,(myself I'm 30 stone 46 years old and never kissed a girl) the part in brackets was a fib by the way.

The point is you don't have to carry your permission slip and you don't have to phone the police,BUT you should be sensible enough to realise that if the boys in blue turn up and you can't get your landowner on the phone or produce your permission slip then the PC is going to have to do something and as you said that is probably arrest you to sort it out.

 

There are thousands of people out there on a weekend shooting,how many have this situation put upon them,the numbers are tiny.

And the large majority do not call the police before they go out.

 

If I called the police it would make no difference as most of my land has no phone signal,so if a call was made and the police tried to call me then they would not get through,so they will call out,or if they are chilled like my force,my wife will wake up at 3am when I get in and ask me to call the police who called at 12pm, I ring them ,they ask was I shooting on things land,I say yes they say no problem someone reported shooting and gave my vehicle reg,they checked it called me no signal called home,wife said I'm out shooting,they asked me to call when I got in ,all happy.

[cumbrian shooter]

I would never involve the Police at all, you have no need to tell them what you are doing.

 

It's becoming more like a Police State every day.

 

surely its good practice to call them and let them know? i also think it shows that we are responsible people!!

not informing them could result in armed response units being sent out = more tax payers money wasted!

 

also why risk being interupted?

 

as said above its only a phonecall whats the big deal? surely you would rather make the phobe call than the above happen?

 

I know the 101 call is a bit more detailed and a wee bit longer but you have to remember the police are just doing there job!

 

regards C.S

[Scully]

There aren't enough Police to respond to all the shooting that goes on around here,even outside the season.

[CharlieT]

Ginger Cat,

You come across as one of the, thankfully, very few officers that lack common sense. Quite why you would ever consider that arresting a law abiding shooter, who could not immediately prove his authority to shoot a patch of land, is beyond me. I would have thought that after speaking with him and determining his name, address,car registration number, FAC number (from police records) etc it would be obvious that he was shooting legitimately. Any further enquiries you may wish to make could be done at a later date.

[GingerCat]

Charlie, its not that they are in lawful possession that's the problems, its being there without permission that constitutes the offence of trespass having a gun with you even if its on a sgc or section 1 will make it armed trespass , 99.9% of the time a phone call will easily sort out the problem, however if it is impossible to prove they have permission, there in an allegation they shouldn't be there or causing a issue of some sort then just taking details and moving people on is not always the best course of action.

For you info I have never needed to go down that road however for the sake of a simple phone call when you know you night have issues with neighbours or antis I think its madness not to. Just carrying your permission slip would also suffice. Remember not all poachers have illegally held guns either, I'm sure the farmer/gamekeeper wouldn't be impressed if I just moved him on or let him carry on for it to be dealt with later.

At the end of the day its your shooting and in sure you don't want it spoiled, I know I enjoy mine.

[stubby]

I think this whole "inform plod" thing has come about via shooters seeing/listening to pest controllers, see if we are shooting in areas seen by the public, we need to ring up, get a CAD number, car reg, times on/off etc

but my own private shooting, has nothing to do with work, so why bother plod, I carry my certs,my map of permission, I could text the owner, but sure he wouldn't be too happy at silly times in morning 1am-3am,

luckily my permissions has locked gates all round, the fact I have keys should be good enough to prove I have permission to be there

[CharlieT]

It's all this talk of arrest that gets my goat. As I said, peoples identity can be ascertained from the information they provide and confirmed, if necessary, from their car registration number or any other document they may have with them.

As well as home, I am able to shoot over almost every local farm although I have nothing in writing and therefore could not prove on the spot that I was shooting lawfully. There is no mobile signal therefore it would be impossible to phone the land owner to confirm my authority. Are some really suggesting that if some bunny hugging tourist or whoever causes the police to attend I should be arrested and held in custody until the land owner is available to speak with. I sincerely trust not.

Devon & Cornwall do not wish to be advised of shooting activity, however that does not seem to stop the fools from still phoning in to let them know "I'm shooting tonight". We really do reap what we sow in this country. Common sense and "Gray matter" do seem to have gone out the window.

[Oops Missed Again]

. Here is my 2 pence worth, if I should be called to a report of a man in a field with a gun, and if he has no means of proving he is allowed there and I can't raise a land owner I will most probably arrest him on suspicion or armed trespass and worry about the rest later.

Not to do so will most probably cost my job

 

I would like to ask

 

A. Would the complainant be questioned at length regarding why have they reported a person in a field with a gun. No

B. If you honestly believe you would lose your job because you didn't arrest the person you have got a lot to learn about the police.

 

And lastly some more advice given to be by a barrister. Never speak to the police unless you are recording it.

[ordnance]

I have never rang the police and rarely carry my certificate unless i need to buy ammo on the way. Any time i have being stopped in the past a quick call on the radio and all was sorted. I wouldn't ring the police if i was going fishing so why would i if i was going shooting. If it was a condition on my certificate i would but its not. I don't get it why would you . OK if i was shooting at the back of the police station or near a army base then it would make sense.

Edited October 30, 2012 by ordnance

[mossy835]

i have to rape fields right behind the marine camp ,as all ways when rabbiting at night i all ways, go to the guard house and tell them and they radio round the camp to tell them im there,this year i will go and tell them im shooting pigeons,and they will be ok whth that, i wont be calling the police,never have,

Edited October 30, 2012 by mossy835

[JonathanL]

I have never rang the police and rarely carry my certificate unless i need to buy ammo on the way. Any time i have being stopped in the past a quick call on the radio and all was sorted. I wouldn't ring the police if i was going fishing so why would i if i was going shooting. If it was a condition on my certificate i would but its not. I don't get it why would you . OK if i was shooting at the back of the police station or near a army base then it would make sense.

 

To be honest, there is a very good argument for never carrying your FAC/SGC unless you actually need it to purchase something as if lost it is a MASSIVE security issue. It has your name, address, details of all your guns and likely ammunition holdings and even your picture on it!

 

J.

[JonathanL]

i have to rape fields right behind the marine camp ,as all ways when rabbiting at night i all ways, go to the guard house and tell them and they radio round the camp to tell them im there,this year i will go and tell them im shooting pigeons,and they will be ok whth that, i wont be calling the police,never have,

 

:w00t:

 

J.

[ordnance]

To be honest, there is a very good argument for never carrying your FAC/SGC unless you actually need it to purchase something as if lost it is a MASSIVE security issue. It has your name, address, details of all your guns and likely ammunition holdings and even your picture on it!

 

J.

 

 

True and what i have on mine would be very attractive to certain elements here. Guns are popular among thefts here as they can be sold on. Example below.

 

An 85-year-old County Down man tied up and robbed in the home he has lived in since 1970, has said he would be too scared to go back to sleep there.

 

Two men broke into George Burns' home on the Aughnacloy Road, Katesbridge, at about 21:00 GMT on Monday.

 

They stole money and three double-barrelled shotguns from a gun cabinet at his house.

[bedwards1966]

I assume that some of you brave people made the FEO aware of your views on this last time they visited?

 

I thought not.

 

Bored now.

 

That's a silly statement. I've never been asked by my FEO to inform the police when I'm out shooting, are you suggesting that if asked I'd not be 'brave' enough to say 'I'm not informing the police every time I go about my legitimate business'?

Grow up.

 

Look, I haven't read all the posts and in not going to as I get they are on the general "bash a cop" theme that is becoming only to usual on here. Here is my 2 pence worth, if I should be called to a report of a man in a field with a gun, and if he has no means of proving he is allowed there and I can't raise a land owner I will most probably arrest him on suspicion or armed trespass and worry about the rest later.

Read my posts on this in response to Dirty Harry's view on this - his views seem a little heavy handed, but you take it even further. You should not simply arrest someone because they can't prove to you then and there that they have permission. You are treating them as guilty without any evidence or strong belief.

 

Not to do so will most probably cost my job Utter rubbish. You have to investigate - that does NOT require you to arrest someone because they don't have absolute, unquestionable proof on them at that time. Investigate in a sensible way and you've done your job properly. and to be honest in this day and age that's not going to happen, like it or not with all the macho bs aside if your allowed there you can prove it, Again, utter rubbish. I was recently given permission to shoot on some land, I know where the person lives and his name, but I don't have anything written down nor do I have his phone number. I still have every right to shoot there, yet if he's not home at the time some jobsworth plod comes looking for trouble, I can't prove it. if you can't then your getting a ride in the free bus and a cup of **** tea whilst I investigate.

You can debate this till the cows come home with loads of offences. We are not the bad guys, we work with what we have, a lot of us shoot and were raised in the country, if u want to argue with me in a field with your gun then your welcome too, I will call the boys with their guns to contain and disarm you.

Another idiot in a position of power. 'We have a disagreement here, so I'll call out the big boys with big guns to just take you down'. I have arguments/disagreements with people, it's life. At no point do I take a disagreement and take it to a full blown incident because I can.

 

We can debate the nasty rozzers being above their station if u like and tasering blind guys etc and whilst We are at it bring up untested firearms ownership and a statutory test, is that a good idea? After all if pigs can't tell the difference after 2 months of firearms training how can u? ?

Because most shooters aren't a bunch of hyped up, know it all's trained by other 'experts'. Shooters take an interest in learning, and you only have to look at the average shooters' knowledge and safety awareness, and their lack of negligent discharges, to see that somehow they manage to achieve a higher standard than the police. Personally I am amazed at the poor weapon handling I see at the clay range and even more so in the field. Not everybody is perfect, but the way police handle firearms frequently leaves a lot to be desired. As a whole, civilians are safe and take a safe approach, the same cannot be said for the police. Stupid comments will bring questions and they may not be nice. Having and owning a gun does not make you safe, I don't care how long u have had it for. Neither do I care to listen to rubbish arguments re my powers in relation to the law, I'm reminded every day by everyone i arrest that i am out of order it unlawful in my actions, including the solicitors etc, haven't lost a case yet.

Surely you can tell the difference between someone pointing out that your taking a heavy handed approach, perhaps even bullying, and some scumbag who's making a fuss and inventing things because you caught him shoplifting? Well, clearly you can't tell the difference.

For the record I have 3 permissions and only 1 in writing, if I can't raise the landowner when needed I know the consequences and only hope someone would be kind enough to move me on, personally I wouldn't be so kind as I have found it often bites you in the butt.

Well this is astounding. You hope that you'd be treated in a better way than you yourself have said you'll treat others?

 

Quite simply, your attitude is the reason the police frequently do such a poor job and alienate the public, who they are meant to serve.

I am not anti-police, but if I come across an officer with your preposterous approach and views, I will have a very good reason to be anti police.

 

Ginger Cat,

You come across as one of the, thankfully, very few officers that lack common sense. Quite why you would ever consider that arresting a law abiding shooter, who could not immediately prove his authority to shoot a patch of land, is beyond me. I would have thought that after speaking with him and determining his name, address,car registration number, FAC number (from police records) etc it would be obvious that he was shooting legitimately. Any further enquiries you may wish to make could be done at a later date.

 

Well put.

 

surely its good practice to call them and let them know? i also think it shows that we are responsible people!!

not informing them could result in armed response units being sent out = more tax payers money wasted!

 

also why risk being interupted?

 

as said above its only a phonecall whats the big deal? surely you would rather make the phobe call than the above happen?

 

I know the 101 call is a bit more detailed and a wee bit longer but you have to remember the police are just doing there job!

 

regards C.S

 

So your happy to ask the police for permission to shoot somewhere each time you want to do some shooting?

It may be a matter of telling them at the moment, but if we keep doing it, it WILL change to a requirement, then to asking permission.

Being a responsible shooter does not have anything to do with telling the police where and when you'll be shooting on a certain day.

If they want to waste public money by sending out an armed response unit, that's their problem. It's up to them what they send out to investigate, and I've heard of armed response units being sent out despite the police being notified in advance anyway.

 

Would I be a more responsible driver if I notify the police of every journey I make? Looking at the number of RTA's that occur, I'm quite sure that there's a higher risk to the public from me driving to work in the morning than there is from me shooting some pigeons.

Edited October 30, 2012 by bedwards1966

[Dekers]

That's a silly statement. I've never been asked by my FEO to inform the police when I'm out shooting, are you suggesting that if asked I'd not be 'brave' enough to say 'I'm not informing the police every time I go about my legitimate business'?

Grow up.

 

 

 

Quite simply, your attitude is the reason the police frequently do such a poor job and alienate the public, who they are meant to serve.

I am not anti-police, but if I come across an officer with your preposterous approach and views, I will have a very good reason to be anti police.

 

 

 

Well put.

 

 

 

So your happy to ask the police for permission to shoot somewhere each time you want to do some shooting?

It may be a matter of telling them at the moment, but if we keep doing it, it WILL change to a requirement, then to asking permission.

Being a responsible shooter does not have anything to do with telling the police where and when you'll be shooting on a certain day.

 

Would I be a more responsible driver if I notify the police of every journey I make? Looking at the number of RTA's that occur, I'm quite sure that there's a higher risk to the public from me driving to work in the morning than there is from me shooting some pigeons.

 

I have a ****** knee following and operation, what's your excuse, you have too much time on your hands looking at all that, and I don't see anybody here asking the police for permission to go shooting!? Did I miss that somewhere?

[bedwards1966]

I have a ****** knee following and operation, what's your excuse, you have too much time on your hands looking at all that, and I don't see anybody here asking the police for permission to go shooting!? Did I miss that somewhere?

 

Yes, what you are missing is that we may currently be telling the police where and when we shoot, but if we do it enough they will be able to ask for it to become mandatory, "as almost everyone does it it won't cause any problems".

 

Then, when we are required to tell them, they'll up it to checking that it's not a problem, then to asking for permission - we could easily end up being required to ask 7 days in advance or something!

Look at how the rules, requirements and restrictions relating to the licencing of firearms have come about over the years, there is no reason to think that this will be any different.

Edited October 30, 2012 by bedwards1966

[Dirty Harry]

Bedwards1966 you really do sound a bit paranoid. Maybe you should seek help.

[Dekers]

Yes, what you are missing is that we may currently be telling the police where and when we shoot, but if we do it enough they will be able to ask for it to become mandatory, "as almost everyone does it it won't cause any problems".

 

Then, when we are required to tell them, they'll up it to checking that it's not a problem, then to asking for permission - we could easily end up being required to ask 7 days in advance or something!

Look at how the rules, requirements and restrictions relating to the licencing of firearms have come about over the years, there is no reason to think that this will be any different.

 

We have had this discussion earlier in this thread, you have your view, I don't agree, it isn't the same and you are making a leap of assumption.

 

There are way over 1,000,000 FAC/SGC holders in this country and a suggested figure of over 4,000,000 Air rifle owners, how many additional operators do you think the police would need to employ to handle that lot if it was mandatory?

 

You crack on though, this whole thread has developed into a meaningless shambles with people not reading, not listening, not showing much sense, and over indulging with steroids, and its going round in circles with no end in sight!!

Edited October 30, 2012 by Dekers

[DaveK]

That's a silly statement. I've never been asked by my FEO to inform the police when I'm out shooting, are you suggesting that if asked I'd not be 'brave' enough to say 'I'm not informing the police every time I go about my legitimate business'?

Grow up.

 

 

There's a wee difference between normal, run of the mill, legitimate business and wandering around the area with a loaded firearm. If some people can't understand the difference and consider it an infringement on their human rights ..... well ....... I just give up

[TopDown]

Loving the armchair experts on this thread. Seems like a lot of assumption but very little experience in a few areas. Anyone for shooting?

[JonathanL]

Bedwards1966 you really do sound a bit paranoid. Maybe you should seek help.

 

No. He's spot on. If you've been shooting for more than a few years you will be able to see exactly where he's coming from. Just look at this 'cleared' land rubbish; there is no such thing as 'cleared' land and the Firearms Act says nothing about where or when you can go shooting. Same with 'open' and 'closed' FAC's. It's so much made up **** in order to create jobs for people and to cover the ***** of those doing the jobs.

 

 

J.

[JonathanL]

There's a wee difference between normal, run of the mill, legitimate business and wandering around the area with a loaded firearm. If some people can't understand the difference and consider it an infringement on their human rights ..... well ....... I just give up

 

Rubbish. If you are behaving lawfully then it is perfectly 'legitimate' for you to go about it. If it isn't 'legitimate' then you have no business doing it at all!

 

Shooting is currently legal so there is no reason as to why you should have to tell the police every time you go out and do it.

 

J.

[bedwards1966]

No. He's spot on. If you've been shooting for more than a few years you will be able to see exactly where he's coming from. Just look at this 'cleared' land rubbish; there is no such thing as 'cleared' land and the Firearms Act says nothing about where or when you can go shooting. Same with 'open' and 'closed' FAC's. It's so much made up **** in order to create jobs for people and to cover the ***** of those doing the jobs.

 

 

J.

Rubbish. If you are behaving lawfully then it is perfectly 'legitimate' for you to go about it. If it isn't 'legitimate' then you have no business doing it at all!

 

Shooting is currently legal so there is no reason as to why you should have to tell the police every time you go out and do it.

 

J.

 

Well said, you saved me the trouble of typing a reply!

[tigger]

Only a week or two ago someone on here (i cant remember who) said shooters ought NOT to ring in advance because the police will expect it every time and eventually it will become mandatory. Your post clearly shows its already happening.

 

So to everyone else-dont ring it in!

 

This is the right answer the more people do it the more they will want it and before you no it we all have to do it.......