The State of Policing in the UK Today

[UKPoacher]

UKPoacher. In a nutshell - no. I know what I know and don't have to dance to your tune. Please spare me the attempted withering putdown.

 

From time to time, posters appear, having a pop at the Police. I will admit to believing that the majority are very, very good, with a few obviously bad ones - at whatever rank. If that makes me wrong - so be it. What I do object to are people who cite instances, which we are asked to accept at face value, without any detail whatsoever.

 

If you are certain of your facts - name and shame the individuals concerned. I suspect that will not happen. It is clearly safer, if less brave, to slag off the general Police Force, with a few vague examples.

 

Lord McAlpine had the measure of a number of keyboard warriors. :good:

 

As I thought. A boxed set of Inspector Morse videos makes you a know it all regards policing.

 

If you are claiming experience to negate my opinions based on my stated experience then at least be good enough to put up or shut up.

[welsh1]

Why do these "police type"threads always degenerate to the show you mine if you show me yours level?

[ozzy518]

I don't get involved in all these type of threads cos I know I got the biggest and best

[Gordon R]

UK Poacher - put up or shut up. your stated experience makes you appear like a disgruntled ex-Constable, with little to offer but vague anecdotes.

 

Publish the details of all the wrongdoings and stop making a fool of yourself.

[bluejay22]

For what it`s worth i think politicians are a bunch of self serving egotistical ********** but i could be wrong....

[Gordon R]

Don't think you are far wrong.

[Muggins.]

Why do these "police type"threads always degenerate to the show you mine if you show me yours level?

Because you have ignorant, self centred, stinking, tax payed for police can do no wrong types like you know who...

[Gordon R]

Muggins - have a nice Christmas. :good:

[UKPoacher]

UK Poacher - put up or shut up. your stated experience makes you appear like a disgruntled ex-Constable, with little to offer but vague anecdotes.

 

Publish the details of all the wrongdoings and stop making a fool of yourself.

 

And how would that help? The incidents I mentioned were reported to the relevant people and nothing was done. Why do you think anything would be different today? If push came to shove I could evidence the allegations, but not on here.

 

You claim to have experience in policing yet you have never once before as far as I can recall mentioned that. On the contrary your posts would indicate that you haven't got a clue about the realities of day to day policing. And, not once have you evidenced your own absurd claims such as the FEOs can and do check internet forums to revoke the SGCs of those who admit to speeding (add three nodding emoticons). They didn't even take your SGC when you were caught speeding, so how they would manage to revoke one for bragging about it even if they could trace them is a joke.

 

I repeat my statement; the police are now corrupt from the core. They are lead by senior officers who are not only inept, but have become more and more corrupt in recent years. Check out Graham Maxwell, Sean Price, Gordon Fraser & Ali Dizaei for starters.

[ozzy518]

Not only do I disagree with your sweeping generalisation but I also take offence at it. I am a currently serving officer of some years and to infer that all police are corrupt means that I am too. Utter dogs dangles mate. You may have seen or experienced wrongdoings in your force but I refute that corruption is endemic throughout all 37 forces. Sure, coppers have been fired and disciplined for various things but they are a minority

[Gordon R]

UKPoacher - you are beginning to ramble like Dennis. If you can't back them up, why mention them.

 

I repeat, for you and the odd other person who can't read - I think the Police, as a whole, are excellent. I have accepted that there are some bad Policemen/ women - some even worse. That doesn't seem to be enough for you and your ilk. I cannot accept that the bad ones are in any sort of majority or even a substantial minority.

 

The instances you cite are those that make headlines. 10,000 Policemen doing a fine job doesn't get any headlines.

 

You are fast becoming a rather bitter individual. Despite that, it is Christmas - so I will make no further post on the subject. It will be interesting to note whether you can show any restraint.

 

Have a good Christmas and New Year.

[Kes]

The sad thing is, it only takes one bent copper to tarnish all of them.

If one is bent and enforcing the law - how can you trust any of them. Ozzy is obviously correct but he will know that it takes years to recover reputation and the for the police longer than that. The Police Federation doesnt help either but maybe new recruitment procedures (some real checks) and in service monitoring would help. It is simply no good in this day and age to say - I am a policeman I dont bend the truth or lie. There have to be serious processes and procedures to restore that as a trueism.

[UKPoacher]

UKPoacher - you are beginning to ramble like Dennis. If you can't back them up, why mention them.

 

I repeat, for you and the odd other person who can't read - I think the Police, as a whole, are excellent. I have accepted that there are some bad Policemen/ women - some even worse. That doesn't seem to be enough for you and your ilk. I cannot accept that the bad ones are in any sort of majority or even a substantial minority.

 

The instances you cite are those that make headlines. 10,000 Policemen doing a fine job doesn't get any headlines.

 

You are fast becoming a rather bitter individual. Despite that, it is Christmas - so I will make no further post on the subject. It will be interesting to note whether you can show any restraint.

 

Have a good Christmas and New Year.

 

I've nothing to be bitter about. I achieve most of what I wanted to do in my career and retired at 55 financially secure and in good health. What people like you can't seem to grasp is that I write as I saw it, not second hand information. I have lived it and can speak about what I experienced. Can you?

 

What is your point exactly? Are you saying that there is no corruption in the police? What purpose would it serve to resurrect allegations that have already been suppressed and are unlikely to be investigate today? If I gave names, dates, etc. how would you know whether it was fact or fiction? The IPCC aren't going to look into allegations like these after all this time.

 

And of course, let's not forget that you have yet to substantiate your claim to having substantial experience of policing. And that is what your smokescreen and ducking the questions is about. Hiding your own failings as usual.

 

For those who have an open mind I did 25 years in South Yorkshire Police, 10 as a uniformed response officer, 8 as a dog handler, I spent about 3 years on recuperative duties following a serious eye injury sustained whilst making an arrest, some of that time in police dog training, some in various administration departments including the Coroner's and latterly in community policing before finishing off where I started, on the front line, on the same beat. During that time I had many run ins with senior officers over policy matters and to report illegal and corrupt behaviour that sometimes backfired and ended up with me being black-balled instead of the offenders. I also received many commendations and finished with an 'Exemplary' certificate of service. I was told by two Deputy Chief Constables that no one of my rank had done more to change policy than I had. They hated receiving my reports and suggestions because I not only told them what was wrong, but how to fix it which left them struggling to change things without losing face. What made me different to most constables is that I joined at 30 not 19, and had some 12 years of management experience. Most if not all of my superiors had joined straight from college and had no experience of management or running a business. Also, because I had no desire to achieve higher rank I could afford to speak my mind. Those who wanted promotion did not have that liberty.

 

So, when I make a post on a thread like this I'm writing from experience, not opinions shaped by the press or other people. If you don't believe them or don't want to then that's up to you.

[UKPoacher]

Not only do I disagree with your sweeping generalisation but I also take offence at it. I am a currently serving officer of some years and to infer that all police are corrupt means that I am too. Utter dogs dangles mate. You may have seen or experienced wrongdoings in your force but I refute that corruption is endemic throughout all 37 forces. Sure, coppers have been fired and disciplined for various things but they are a minority

 

Read post number 30.

 

I haven't said that all police are corrupt. My allegation is that policing is rotten from the core, i.e. corrupt senior officers acting as though they are above the law spreading their influence down the middle ranks resulting in bullying of police officers and abuse of power.

[Mungler]

Fair play to UK Poacher. He's been there and done it and he's stuck his neck out on here to tell us what he has seen and been witness to. Much of what he says has been said to me by my mates on the inside. If you think about it, it would have been easier for him to tow the line on here with the usual "it's all rosey in the police garden" (just look at any Stephen Lawrence, Ian Tomlinson, Jean Charles etc thread), but no, he's stuck his neck out and called it as he sees it. He's gone up in my estimations anyways. I repeat, it would be easier for him to say nothing.

[kdubya]

Fair play to UK Poacher. He's been there and done it and he's stuck his neck out on here to tell us what he has seen and been witness to. Much of what he says has been said to me by my mates on the inside. If you think about it, it would have been easier for him to tow the line on here with the usual "it's all rosey in the police garden" (just look at any Stephen Lawrence, Ian Tomlinson, Jean Charles etc thread), but no, he's stuck his neck out and called it as he sees it. He's gone up in my estimations anyways. I repeat, it would be easier for him to say nothing.

 

100% agree

 

KW

[Mungler]

There you go UK Poacher, KW and me agree on something and applaud you (ex-copper) for it. Surely this must be end of days stuff I'm now going to see if it's raining blood / frogs and if next door's cat is laying down with my dog

[Zapp]

It can only be the magic of Christmas..

 

[Mungler]

KW makes a lovely wife

[bobt]

I wonder how many police bashers hope there will be a bobby nearby, when their old mum gets knocked over by the local scrotes outside the post office?

I have dealings with our local police, at grass roots level they are all good solid people,

as said the bosses have bigger fish to fry.

[Mungler]

I wonder how many police bashers hope there will be a bobby nearby, when their old mum gets knocked over by the local scrotes outside the post office?

With respect, that's moronic - can we never question or challenge the police and or their conduct because they are the ones we must phone when we or our loved ones get in trouble or come in harms way?

[welsh1]

I deal with police on a weekly basis, and the large majority are good at what they do,but i have had some that think the uniform gives them power to do and say what they want.

Some go way over the top,and i have made official complaints about them,but it seems that even after investigations against them they get a slap on the wrist and nothing else.

3 out of 4 of my complaints were upheld on the last investigation,the main complaint and the most serious however was cleverly twisted to give the officers an excuse,i could go to IPCC but i have little faith that the outcome would change.

 

After saying all that,i still have no hesitation in calling for assistance,in something as large as the police service there will be bad apples,the bobby on the ground is usually just doing his job in difficult circumstances,it is as you go up the rank structure that no one will take responsibility and seem to have been trained in the art of wriggling out of the tightest spot,and getting an answer is near impossible.

[UKPoacher]

The problem comes when the senior police officers see themselves as being above the law. Then the corruption filters downhill.

 

At this time of year there is a purge on drink drivers. It doesn't matter whether you agree with this or not, the fact that Chief Constables knowingly encourage officers to conduct random breath tests is wrong and it is unlawful. It undermines the police's position and puts some officers under pressure to break the law. As soon as that officer invents a reason to suspect that a breath test is required then corruption has begun.

 

My force like many others has targets that must be achieved by each officer. These targets are often chosen merely because they can be easily harvested by electronic means. Many of these targets are unlawful; stop & search and arrests for example. Officers are pressurised to arrest or search someone where it is unnecessary simply to meet their targets. Hence the high number of suspects released with insufficient evidence. They still count on the officer's monthly stats. Similarly we were pressurised to under report serious crimes such as GBH and Threats to Kill. For example I wasn't allowed to file a report for burglary as each case was reviewed by a detective sergeant to see whether it could be classified as a theft rather than burglary. In my lat month I responded to a burglary, i.e. a locked house was entered by breaking down a door and items of property stolen. I caught the suspect, arrested him, seized his vehicle, booked the stolen property into the store and evidenced it, took statements and prepared a report. What I couldn't do is file a report for burglary as per the National Crime Recording Standards protocol because the force had their own policy that prevented their uniformed officers complying with the law. Our civilian staffed crime bureau would not record a burglary from a uniformed officer, thus compromising their integrity.

 

These Chief Constables also employ contract health professionals with the task of overturning a sick officer's GP reports. The rent-a-doctors will willingly breach their code of conduct particularly putting the interests of the patient first and not making recommendations beyond their experience and capabilities. Police forces have to pay two years salary to the pension fund for every officer who is medically retired. After that the officer's pension is paid by the fund. Each year every force receives the equivalent of 6.5 officer's salary from the government per 1,000 officers employed. At the moment UK police forces on average are making around £300,000 per year, per 1,000 officers on their payroll by refusing to retire officers on medical pensions. They are deliberately ignoring the terms of an Act of Parliament dedicated to this matter for their own ends. The Federation stands meekly by doing nothing.

 

Why don't officers report these? Because the IPCC will not look into allegations made by serving police officers and serving police officers have no employment rights to speak of. It is only after being dismissed do police officers have access to fair and independent employment tribunals. Would you risk your career, financial security and go through two or three years of stress to make a point with no guarantee of a successful outcome? That is what it takes. And when officers are re-instated by tribunals after all that stress and uncertainty those responsible for hounding the officer out are rarely if ever held to account for their actions.

 

IF police commissioners have been given sufficient powers AND they are not the usual self-serving politicians that blights politics then things might slowly change. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

[guest1957]

Reading this makes me think we need a PACE mk. 2

 

That was intended to reform a troubled force and it seems cracks are opening again.