Frenchieboy Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Ok guys, I know similar topics have been raised before but I believe that this on would be worth serious debate. At the moment this is purely hypathetical so please no personal questions about my health or mentality as that aint happening at the moment and I'm not thinking of giving up my rifles. If by chance you found yourself in the position that through (Let's say) deteriorating health and could not get out shooting as much as you would like and also wanted to cut down on any collection of rifles that you had to just one what rifle calibre would you opt for. Points to debate over are as follows: The rifle would have to be suitable for target shooting - Out to maybe 300 - 400 yards. The rifle would have to be suitable for both rabbit, though not necessarily for the table (Wouldn't want them totally vapourised though so a .308 is out of the question) and It would also have to be a suitable calibre for Fox (out to about 250 yards) and it would need to have a choice of factory ammunition generally available in the shops. (Let's not bring Home Loading into the equasion at this point - Even though I realise it gives the shooter so much more scope it is not always everyones cup of tea) Many forces will not allow a rimfire for foxes with the exception of the .22WMR. but my experiencetells me that the .22WMR would not be the gun of my choice as it is too restrictive on "effective range" and the bullet really starts to drop quite seriously after about 140 yards (Using 50g ammunirion) so the .22 WMR would not (In my opinion) suit needs even though it is nice and cheap to feed! The .22 Hornet I can not comment on as I have no experience of so what about that, or is it too a little restrictive on range and "stopping power" for foxes? The .222 seems to fit the bill as does the .223 - The .223 having (I believe) a better choice of factory ammunition. There are i am sure many other calibres that would fit the bill which I have not mentioned - This is because I have no real experience of them except for the .243 and the .22-250 but I think that both of these would have just a little too much hitting power for rabbits and small vermin - Most of us like to at least find a little of what I shoot! The final criterior that the rifle would have to meet is that it would need to be able to be moderated to within reasonable sound levels. Finally Deer would not come into the equasion, except for maybe Munties or CWD in England. I realise that there are going to be lots of different opinions on this and many shooters will say that the calibre that they use is best - This my well be correct but if you feel that this is the case please explain why. Let's have a serious and sensible full debate on this one please and try to show all of the pros and cons for the many different calibres available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 it don't exist pete its what would you get most use of do you need pest control or target my mate has a hornet 22 and shoot foxes out too about 180- 200 and is also not bad on rabbits if your doing more fox control 222 223 22.250 all up for job harder hitting but not really rabbit guns hope you get sorted mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshLamb Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 .22 for the bunnies and .223 for everything else. Or just go bunny vaporising and use a 223 for everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'm struggling with one gun here. 22-250 is out as a target tool as they are banned on too many ranges, so .223 or .243 probably. The Hornets don't really have the bottle for 300-400 target work and are very much on the edge (or passed it) for 250 yard foxes! I'd be easier on use for a .243 personally, but I've never considered it a bunny gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 .22 for the bunnies and .223 for everything else. Or just go bunny vaporising and use a 223 for everything I've got to admit that a .222 or .223 (Preferably the .223 but I have no experience of this calibre) would be my line of thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 204?? pleanty of poke for foxes,plus head shot rabbits will be fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 204?? pleanty of poke for foxes,plus head shot rabbits will be fine... I've not got any experience (Or knowledge) of the .204 Richie. Are you using one and if so how does it compare to something like the .222 or .223 mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 i had a 204, but sold it as i have a 223.... to be honest it was ace on small vermin crows,magpies and rabbits...and not a bad round on foxes..but my 223 will do the same if not more so one had to go...pleanty of factory ammo available for ther 204 as well... would i have another?? yes if i didnt have a 17hmr and 22 rimfire...but ive got a gun for all my shooting needs now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJL4 Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 It might not be your cup of tea but the son of the keeper I shoot with has just invested in a custom 223 from these people > http://www.dolphinguncompany.co.uk/ <. He wanted na "all round" gun he could use at Bisley for up to 1000yds with heavy bullets (80grn+) and also capable of using smaller, around 50grn's, for foxes. It's a bit of a big heavy beast but my god it shoots well ! DaveL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sx3 clay breaker Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) 204 is not a bad round really flat shooting no recoil if you hit a rabbit or squirrel in the head it should not damage the meat much and will easyly take fox out to 250 - 300 and probly beyond if your good enough ut I not sure on weather it's aloud on ranges as a 32 grain vmax is doing 4250 feet a second Rgds Edited January 2, 2013 by Sx3 clay breaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Already doing Pete with the .222, targets out to 300, rabbits, Crows, Foxes and with the added bonus that up here we can use them on Roe to great effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I use .243 for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 .223 but it would have to be hand loaded so it didn't mush the bunnies so I is breaking the rules some. The Hornet hand loaded (yet again) with 45 grn bullets is easy enough energy wise to kill 250 yds foxes but you need a tad more than 4 MOA elivation from a 130yds zero but 400 yds target work is gonna get like hard work. If you knocked the 400 down to 300 yds it would be the triple two over the .223 rem for me but yet again with hand loads on those bunnies unless they were over 100yds! GET THIS STAIGHT A HANLOADED HORNET IS ONLY AROUND 300fps SLOWER THAN A .222 rem with a 50grn bullet with some factory .222 stuff it will be still less of a difference. In my experience it (the hornet) tops the list of what you can actually hit a rabbit sub 100 yds with yet fully expect to eat the thing after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'll be 70 in the not to distant future and it's something that I have been thinking about. In smallish calibers I have a .17H, 204, 222 and .243. If I were to go down that road and just keep one for all vermin and fox, we have no small deer, I would be torn between the 204 and the .222. If push came to shove I think it would have to be the 204 that was the keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I use .243 for everything. There are too many factors for a serious debate and the way it usually turns out is far more fun……… However .243 works for me TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 90 Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 +1 for the .204 !! They're awesome & as said about 32g @ 4250fps. I haven't had a Fox, Rabbit or Hare so much as twitch so far !! Plot the trajectory on a BRC - 1.8" scope height, 250yds far zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I have a .222 its cheaper to feed than the .223 and does not loose anything for being so (unless for some reason your rabbits and foxes only fall over to bullets above 60gr!) less trendy so there are thousands knocking around at silly season prices....my BRNO Fox2 cost me £60! brass is usually easy to pick up (saw 300 once fired for sale the other day for £20!) it is idiot proof when it comes to reloading. I am getting sub MOA with no regard to OAL and charge using dippers only, resize and seat using "Whack a Mole" Lee Loader technology Sure a nice .223 in stainless and laminate might look better and be worth more but I am 17 for 17 in shots and foxes since I got mine. pretty sure none of the foxes was worried they had been hit by an old gentleman's calibre and not a modern military one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I have owned and enjoyed using a .22 in the past and if I have to be honest I regret ever selling it. One question that I would like to ask is can anyone say what the difference is in velocities and speeds are between the .222 and the .223 please? TEH - I understand what you are saying about too many factors involved and to an extent I agree with you, but feel that it is worth while seeing what other members "thoughts on the subject" are as a generalisation. As it is I am using my .243 more than any other calibre at the moment but it doesn't half make a mess of bunnies unless you can take just their heads clean off with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggiegun Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I have owned and enjoyed using a .22 in the past and if I have to be honest I regret ever selling it. One question that I would like to ask is can anyone say what the difference is in velocities and speeds are between the .222 and the .223 please? TEH - I understand what you are saying about too many factors involved and to an extent I agree with you, but feel that it is worth while seeing what other members "thoughts on the subject" are as a generalisation. As it is I am using my .243 more than any other calibre at the moment but it doesn't half make a mess of bunnies unless you can take just their heads clean off with it! The 223 is slightly faster and can shoot larger/ heavier bullets,you would be better off getting a 223 as there is more choice and availability in most gun shops for factory ammo. ReggiegunRegards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 The 223 is slightly faster and can shoot larger/ heavier bullets,you would be better off getting a 223 as there is more choice and availability in most gun shops for factory ammo. ReggiegunRegards, Thanks for that Reggie. Maybe I could ask you another question about comparing the .222 against the .223. What is the situation with moderators - When moderated (Let's say while using the same type of moderator, regardless of which type or make) is there much noticable difference in noise please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I have owned and enjoyed using a .22 in the past and if I have to be honest I regret ever selling it. One question that I would like to ask is can anyone say what the difference is in velocities and speeds are between the .222 and the .223 please? Taken from the .222 v .223 thread .222 50gr Vmax - 23.0gr N133 = 3210fps .223 50gr Vmax - 24.1gr N133 = 3248fps Not much in it at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 17 hornet seems to do most things that people require fox,rabbit,etc... Based on the 22 Hornet cartridge case, the 17 Hornet propels the 20 gr V-MAX at 3,650 fps. Fueled with Superformance propellent, the 17 Hornet Superformance Varmint is economically priced, and delivers the trajectory of a traditional 55 gr 223 load, but is a pleasure to shoot with the felt recoil of a 22 WMR. The 17 Hornet – an economical, fun .17 caliber centerfire cartridge that puts the STING on varmints out to 300 yards! 3,650 fps muzzle velocity with a 20 gr. V-MAX bullet Same C.O.L. as the 22 Hornet – uses the existing action Trajectory comparable to a traditional 55 gr 223 Rem,but the felt recoil of a 22 WMR Less fouling, barrel wear, powder and pressure compared to the 17 Rem Lower cost and comparable quality to the 17 Fireball and 223 Rem I will be getting one very soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 17 hornet seems to do most things that people require fox,rabbit,etc... Based on the 22 Hornet cartridge case, the 17 Hornet propels the 20 gr V-MAX at 3,650 fps. Fueled with Superformance propellent, the 17 Hornet Superformance Varmint is economically priced, and delivers the trajectory of a traditional 55 gr 223 load, but is a pleasure to shoot with the felt recoil of a 22 WMR. The 17 Hornet – an economical, fun .17 caliber centerfire cartridge that puts the STING on varmints out to 300 yards! 3,650 fps muzzle velocity with a 20 gr. V-MAX bullet Same C.O.L. as the 22 Hornet – uses the existing action Trajectory comparable to a traditional 55 gr 223 Rem,but the felt recoil of a 22 WMR Less fouling, barrel wear, powder and pressure compared to the 17 Rem Lower cost and comparable quality to the 17 Fireball and 223 Rem I will be getting one very soon You are correct in all you say, however I would not consider keeping mine in preference to the 204 or 222 as an all round caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 What's edible game like when hit with a full power .204? I have herd tell of .243 edibles I just aint ever seen a rabbit worth picking up myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 What's edible game like when hit with a full power .204? I have herd tell of .243 edibles I just aint ever seen a rabbit worth picking up myself only if head shot, but i only shot a few with mine...mainly used it on long range crows and magpies,it was exelent on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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