Countryfile Now

[Greymaster]

Countryfile used to be about farming. Now it's about tourism. Last week Lorna Doone, this week ruined abbeys and sand dunes.

 

After watching the impoverished sheep farners, how uplifting to see how well Adam is doing with his BBC licence payer's subsidy. See that new 4x4 and all that tractor kit. No wonder he can play at being a farmer. His dad was the same.

[Dirty Harry]

After watching the impoverished sheep farners, how uplifting to see how well Adam is doing with his BBC licence payer's subsidy. See that new 4x4 and all that tractor kit. No wonder he can play at being a farmer. His dad was the same.

 

It amazes me how jealous some people can be. Loads of people preaching on about diversifying yet when someone actually does it and is doing well for himself you moan about it. Bunch of tossers the lot of you.

[njc110381]

Well that's one way of putting it I suppose!...

 

I think some farmers do make plenty of money, sometimes, but I'm not sure a lot of them are going to do so well this year? If you consider how vast their outgoings are for fuel, seed/stock, fertiliser and kit then you'd expect them to make a respectable profit for putting all that on the line. I have no idea of the costs but I expect it's tens of thousands that they lay out, and with the wrong weather that can all be lost - they could have worked for six months and paid out all those costs for nothing. Then there's the hours they work... If I worked that many hours per day I'd be pretty well of myself and a new Disco or Defender would be pocket change. Lets face it compared to a new tractor they're cheap as chips!

 

Generally I am jealous of the home and land of a farmer, but I sure as hell am not jealous of the pressures they deal with to get there. I wouldn't want their lifestyle that's for sure. It's not all about sitting in the tractor and raking it in.

Edited February 4, 2013 by njc110381

[overandunder2012]

what about subsidy's do they even have to get a good crop or do they get a bung if it fails? serious question. isnt there some sort of scam where people bid on farming rights then collect the subsidy's so there must be a few quid in it for a scam like this to exist. before anyone says it i know most farmers arnt crooks and i know nothing about farming just asking a question.

 

something like this http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-17252035 30% a year does sound attractive bend over mr tax payer

Edited February 4, 2013 by overandunder2012

[CharlieT]

Crooks the lot of them.

Their Grandfathers bought swathes of our countryside for peanuts and have been able to pass it on down the generations without paying tax, unlike the rest who get clobbered for inheritance tax. Farm worker’s wages have been kept artificially low with the collusion of government and the AWB. There is a ready market for all they produce because we as a nation are unable produce all we need. Couple this with the subsidy system which has for more years than I care to remember cost the tax payer billions in production payments and has recently been changed to reward farmers for doing nothing other than calling a rough parcel of land a beetle bank. Add to this the grant system which pays for hedging, fencing and ditching and they can’t go wrong. In fact the EU became so embarrassed over the amounts paid to individual landowners that they stopped divulging the information. The Co-op, Britain’s largest “farmer” receives well over a million a year in grants and subsidies.

Yes, it’s a hard life.

 

Of course on the flip side, there are thousands of family farms which are highly efficient, keep abreast of modern farming practices, invest in their future by updating machinery and breeding stock and still struggle to make a decent return on the capital invested, many drawing little more than minimum wage if you take the hours worked into account. Given the choice most would, I suspect, rather see subsidies done away with and receive a fair return for their product. However, years ago government made the decision to artificially reduce farm gate prices by introducing subsidies to producers thus in turn subsidising the price paid by the consumer. We must also remember that such decisions are now made by the EU and such payments suit many inefficient European farmers.

 

I find it incredible that so many criticise a farming business for making a profit yet applaud the profits and dividends paid by retailers, the service industries and football clubs. A fact, I think, that shows quite how out of touch many people are, or is it just ignorance with a smattering of envy.

[sitsinhedges]

Crooks the lot of them.

Their Grandfathers bought swathes of our countryside for peanuts and have been able to pass it on down the generations without paying tax, unlike the rest who get clobbered for inheritance tax. Farm worker’s wages have been kept artificially low with the collusion of government and the AWB. There is a ready market for all they produce because we as a nation are unable produce all we need. Couple this with the subsidy system which has for more years than I care to remember cost the tax payer billions in production payments and has recently been changed to reward farmers for doing nothing other than calling a rough parcel of land a beetle bank. Add to this the grant system which pays for hedging, fencing and ditching and they can’t go wrong. In fact the EU became so embarrassed over the amounts paid to individual landowners that they stopped divulging the information. The Co-op, Britain’s largest “farmer” receives well over a million a year in grants and subsidies.

Yes, it’s a hard life.

 

Of course on the flip side, there are thousands of family farms which are highly efficient, keep abreast of modern farming practices, invest in their future by updating machinery and breeding stock and still struggle to make a decent return on the capital invested, many drawing little more than minimum wage if you take the hours worked into account. Given the choice most would, I suspect, rather see subsidies done away with and receive a fair return for their product. However, years ago government made the decision to artificially reduce farm gate prices by introducing subsidies to producers thus in turn subsidising the price paid by the consumer. We must also remember that such decisions are now made by the EU and such payments suit many inefficient European farmers.

 

I find it incredible that so many criticise a farming business for making a profit yet applaud the profits and dividends paid by retailers, the service industries and football clubs. A fact, I think, that shows quite how out of touch many people are, or is it just ignorance with a smattering of envy.

 

Think I missed that part, maybe you could point it out.

[nobbyathome]

all farmers do a good job

now i have sucked up will one of you please give me permission to help you with your pigeon problem

[hedd-wyn]

all farmers do a good job

now i have sucked up will one of you please give me permission to help you with your pigeon problem

 

If only you were closer.

[keg]

Never have i read so much Manure in a thread, enough to spread on a field.

 

Charlie T, it was the CAP that the frogs introduced to benefit their small ineficient farms that created the subsidies not a uk based govt. Based on personal experience, mixed farmers are struggling, some of the larger grain and dairy boys are making a good living but we are still losing a number of dairy herds every month from the smaller farmers.

 

As for the comments about selling land. We currently can't feed ourselves. As we lose more land to development and our population increases, that situation is only going to get worse.

 

Diversification- a great idea in principal but try getting past the planners...

 

Expensive tractors- yes but on a lease and at least £100k to get a new one. My mate now does not farm, he has diversified into top soil and hardcore but the council makes his life hell

[CharlieT]

Never have i read so much Manure in a thread, enough to spread on a field.

 

Charlie T, it was the CAP that the frogs introduced to benefit their small ineficient farms that created the subsidies not a uk based govt. Based on personal experience, mixed farmers are struggling, some of the larger grain and dairy boys are making a good living but we are still losing a number of dairy herds every month from the smaller farmers.

 

As for the comments about selling land. We currently can't feed ourselves. As we lose more land to development and our population increases, that situation is only going to get worse.

 

Diversification- a great idea in principal but try getting past the planners...

 

Expensive tractors- yes but on a lease and at least £100k to get a new one. My mate now does not farm, he has diversified into top soil and hardcore but the council makes his life hell

 

Actually British farm subsidies date back well before the CAP and the EU was even thought of. They were introduced just after the war to encourage farmers to produce cheap food to feed a starving nation with the 1947 Agriculture Act.

Edited February 4, 2013 by CharlieT

[overandunder2012]

just how much are these subsidies ? my guess its a fair wack i doubt there on minimum wage

Edited February 4, 2013 by overandunder2012

[crosshair]

Countryfile is rubbish and has nothing to do with real farming, and from the comments made by the townies on here it's no wonder some of you struggle to get permission to shoot. Subsidies were introduced as a cheap food policy, a lot of farmers do not get them.

And if you want to get rid of subsidies, where can we start, family allowance, housing benefit, disability cars, the list is endless but they are all subsidies. How many of you farmer bashers would work seven days a week all of your life like most farmers do.

And don't mention the weather and all the crops that were lost last year, most of you don't have a clue.

[overandunder2012]

Countryfile is rubbish and has nothing to do with real farming, and from the comments made by the townies on here it's no wonder some of you struggle to get permission to shoot. Subsidies were introduced as a cheap food policy, a lot of farmers do not get them.

And if you want to get rid of subsidies, where can we start, family allowance, housing benefit, disability cars, the list is endless but they are all subsidies. How many of you farmer bashers would work seven days a week all of your life like most farmers do.

And don't mention the weather and all the crops that were lost last year, most of you don't have a clue.

most people on here would love to scrap benefits so if it wernt for the fact they want to shoot the farmers land they probably would be in favour of scraping subsidies id still love to know how much these subsidies are as the original poster asked if we are all bored of winging farmers claiming poverty from his range rover but we have yet to establish if there is such a thing as a poor farmer before that can be answered..

Edited February 4, 2013 by overandunder2012

[JustJon]

Scrap subsidies, uk food prices increase, imports are more attractive, uk farmers out of work, government in a food crises in a few years.

 

We need to be supplying our own food. Subsidies help this happen - government tax goes to farmer and prices are therefore lower.

 

At least that seems logical to me? Did I miss something?

[CharlieT]

just how much are these subsidies ? my guess its a fair wack i doubt there on minimum wage

 

You really don't have a clue do you.

[JustJon]

My bet is many are under minimum wage for the hours worked?

 

What's 24x7x52xMinimum Wage?

[crosshair]

At the end of the second world war this country was less than 50% self sufficient producing food, subsidies were introduced as a cheap food policy and increase productivity to feed the country. Move on to when we joined the Common Market as it was called then, and we were over 90% self sufficient in producing food, we are now back to less than 70%, this is due to cheap subsidised food from the EU. And we all know about their cheap imports, horse meat comes to mind.

[39TDS]

The subsidies are to all EU farmers, not just UK.

I don't mind if they stop as long as they all stop in the EU.

That will put 1,000's on the dole in the UK instantly though. Just the people that admin those subsidies.

The price of food would automatically rise to cover the difference.

 

If you think about it, those subsidies are what keeps your food cheap. Of course you will say food isn't cheap,well go to a few foreign countries and weigh up the prices. Do a little Googling and see just what percentage of food gets wasted in this country, that tells you if it is cheap or not.

[rtb]

To be correct the single farm payment which is received is not a sudsidy as it is decoupled from production and to receive it you must meet cross compliance, essentially a set of rules used by governments to 'manage' their farmers as to what they can and cannot do. Also worth noting that some organisations such as the National Trust and RSBP have done very well with very large receipts from Europe for their farming activities. Whilst land prices are at the moment buoyant much of this is driven by non agricultural interest and indeed their are concerns that their is a bubble, similar to that which occurred in the housing market. So, anyone any idea what it costs to produce an acre of wheat or potatoes or a beef animal?

Certainly the system is not ideal, but a man with a full stomach has many problems, a man with an empty stomach has only one.

[crosshair]

39tds, rtb. Well explained, but how do you get the general public to believe the facts.

Farmers get tied to government schemes where they have to halve their stocking rate, intensification out, extensification in.

Getting paid for set aside when half the world is starving is not farming as it should be, there is a choice, take the subsidy or go back to proper farming. Too many on here talking with their mouth full, and not knowing where food comes from.

[39TDS]

Well explained, but how do you get the general public to believe the facts.

Generally speaking it is impossible.

Your best bet is double bluff them and say it is a lie. Possibly printing it in the Sun or Mail, they seem to believe that nonsense.

[keg]

Actually British farm subsidies date back well before the CAP and the EU was even thought of. They were introduced just after the war to encourage farmers to produce cheap food to feed a starving nation with the 1947 Agriculture Act.

 

As always, the devil is in the detail. Depends on how you read the act. It guaranteed a price for the produce. Is that the same as a subsidy?. Many views of the act say it gave farmers of the time a level of income and prosperity unheard of in previous years ( maybe i'll concede that one to you ) Remember that a lot of our produce went for export to build up our currency reserves after the war and that were is not for the atlantic convoys, rationing would have been a lot worse.

 

I know a number of farmers, none of whom are even approaching wealthy and all bar 1 have tried to diversify. It's not a pretty picture.

[kyska]

We seem to be doing ok, really terrible year for the arable, some fields were just mowed back in as we couldn't get the combines onto them, we still bought our yearly upgraded Audi S3 though.

[guest1957]

 

 

As always, the devil is in the detail. Depends on how you read the act. It guaranteed a price for the produce. Is that the same as a subsidy?.

 

Effectively yes as it leads to a higher level of funded output than the market would naturally support.

[scolopax]

Agreed , truely terrible year last year and this one will not be much better with so much land still to be worked whcih should have been down to autumn drillings, in fact it is still so wet it may not even get drilled in Spring.

 

But, when was the last year the weather seriously affected framing as it has done this time? I did a pheasant drive through the standing wheat last season, the previous time I did that was back in the late 80's. So weather wise, and again a generalisation from my own experience, this year was exceptional weather wise.