Pump Club

[impala59]

Heat shield comes into its own when you flip the gun over for a swift reload and grab a handful of hot barrel!

[Wingman]

I think it looks odd because the barrel is so long, it's 30 inch full choke. Thinking about cutting it down and using it as on close range pigeon with no choke. Still have the other CLECT choked barrel for other purposes. Only thing is the metal is as thick as a sewer pipe so think I may need a chop saw to do a good job..

[Scrumbag]

I really like that forend but would be tempted to ditch the heat shield

 

Scrummy

[Wingman]

I really like that forend but would be tempted to ditch the heat shield

 

Scrummy

Kind of agree, think I might take it off and stick it on here for sale. Didn't even use the ghost ring sights that came with it...

[Opossum]

I spent a few hours today trying to fit an old 870 plastic corncob forend to my Ithaca. I'd got it all nice and smooth until I put the barrel support back on, at which point it started to bind up again and I gave up. Going to take more material off next weekend I think!

[impala59]

 

I spent a few hours today trying to fit an old 870 plastic corncob forend to my Ithaca. I'd got it all nice and smooth until I put the barrel support back on, at which point it started to bind up again and I gave up. Going to take more material off next weekend I think![/quote)

 

 

Odd that, when I did the same thing all I had to do was dremel out the internal slot for the forend connecting rod. Might be worth checking if your mag tube is dead straight. Worth doing though.

Edited May 22, 2017 by impala59

[Opossum]

 

 

I spent a few hours today trying to fit an old 870 plastic corncob forend to my Ithaca. I'd got it all nice and smooth until I put the barrel support back on, at which point it started to bind up again and I gave up. Going to take more material off next weekend I think![/quote)

 

 

Odd that, when I did the same thing all I had to do was dremel out the internal slot for the forend connecting rod. Might be worth checking if your mag tube is dead straight. Worth doing though.

 

This is an old ATI forend that hugs the barrel tightly... i think the "wings" need taking down a bit more. Unfortunately my barrel support bolt is knackered so might not survive repeated removal to test! Waiting on Brownells free shipping to get more

[TIGHTCHOKE]

It is with great sadness that I have to relinquish my membership of Pump Club.

 

I have today sold my Ithaca M37 and my Remington 870 to Impala59.

 

Good to meet you Roland.

[Scrumbag]

It is with great sadness that I have to relinquish my membership of Pump Club.

 

I have today sold my Ithaca M37 and my Remington 870 to Impala59.

 

Good to meet you Roland.

Surely we can provide you with a temporary pass until you acquire a new one... you are going to get another right?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

No plans to at the moment.

 

They weren't getting used at all, the O/U's, SxS's and Semi-Auto's were and are.

 

They have gone to a wondeful new home with Impala59.

[impala59]

ame="impala59" post="3262219" timestamp="1495438103"]

 

 

 

This is an old ATI forend that hugs the barrel tightly... i think the "wings" need taking down a bit more. Unfortunately my barrel support bolt is knackered so might not survive repeated removal to test! Waiting on Brownells free shipping to get more

 

The yoke bolt can be replaced by tapping the yoke thread with Metric M4 and then bolts are pennies. Not strictly for the purists, but for the shooters its the way to go

 

PS happy new owner of more candidates for refurb and restore, thanks TC, great to meet you too!

[Opossum]

Well I attacked it with sandpaper again tonight and ended up with this. I'm not 100% convinced.

 

[Wingman]

Well I attacked it with sandpaper again tonight and ended up with this. I'm not 100% convinced.]

What are you not convinced about, doesn't look half bad to me. That stock looks nice I quite like the contrast with the synthetic forend.

[impala59]

In my humble opinion, a slight bevel front and rear of the corn cob would give it a slightly nicer profile in keeping with the original type (if that's what you are looking for)

 

pic. top original corn cob, bottom corn cob modified by butcher for better grip? which I have on my list for re-dressing when I can get it mounted on the lathe

 

[Opossum]

I think it's that I' not sure if I love or hate the wood/plastic combo Though I don't fancy my chances at getting a plastic stock!

[CaptainBeaky]

In my humble opinion, a slight bevel front and rear of the corn cob would give it a slightly nicer profile in keeping with the original type (if that's what you are looking for)

 

pic. top original corn cob, bottom corn cob modified by butcher for better grip? which I have on my list for re-dressing when I can get it mounted on the lathe

 

Ithaca sisters (2).JPG

Ye gods, that's horrible!

[impala59]

Ye gods, that's horrible!

 

Yes, I got that forend with a parts gun, it looks as though it has been whittled by a blind man armed with a knife and fork! I intend to get it on the lathe with some fine sand paper to see if I can salvage something from it (These forends are few and far between unfortunately)

[impala59]

Not sure if I posted this before, but I found it on the PC and added a few more ramblings/thoughts/opinions. Apologies if its old hat

 

 

Some ramblings that I put together from several sources which may be of interest with some of my biased opinions!

Ithaca Model 37 v Browning BPS

What are the differences between the American-made Ithaca Model 37 Featherlight and the Japanese-made (Miroku) Browning BPS models? Firstly, the reason for comparison is the common denominator, which is the J M Browning designed, bottom load and eject as introduced on the Remington Model 17 which became the Ithaca Model 37 when the original patents expired. Interestingly, Remington moved its own development into the smooth, side ejecting Model 31, which in turn evolved into the best-selling 870.

With the exception of the bottom ejection feature, the BPS is different from the Ithaca Model 37 in several ways. The BPS trigger group is pinned into place, the slide release is on the left rear of the receiver. The M37 trigger assembly slides in to the rear of the receiver and is held by a screw, which is in turn locked in place with the stock bolt. (you should never attempt to undo the trigger housing screw without loosening or removing the stock first, many a chewed screw head evidences this)

The cartridge carrier/lifter in the BPS pivots on a drift pin whereas on the M37 it is located with screws and adjacent lock screws. Pre 1970 M37’s could “slam fire”, that is, by holding the trigger, the gun would fire when the action was moved forward. Later models do not have an extra sear which is triggered by the locking action of the bolt carrier to prevent this. This extra sear can easily be filed off should an owner find the slam fire feature disconcerting.

The Browning BPS has a plain receiver, the standard models lacking any engraving. Current Ithaca M37s have machine-cut engraving.

The BPS comes in 10 gauge and 12 gauge. The Ithaca M37 comes in 12, 16, 20, and 28 gauge. Ithaca Featherlight models are all-steel, but weigh about 12 ounces less than their BPS counterparts. For an even lighter gun you can opt for the plain-barrelled versions of the Ithaca M37 that reduces significantly the barrel weight. Ithaca also offers the alloy-receivered “Ultralight” M37 in 12 and 20 gauge that is even lighter still.

The safety on a BPS is an ambidextrous top tang thumb safety. The safety on an Ithaca M37 is a push through type, at the back of the trigger guard and is replaceable with a factory made part for left-handed shooters. The BPS has a raised rib, the M37 has a ventilated rib closer to the barrel.

The lighter steel Ithaca M37 receiver is machine-engraved, the slide release is at the front of the trigger guard, with the safety at the rear. The M37 forearm is lighter and slimmer than that on the BPS. The current Ithaca M37 has Ithaca's solderless barrel system, with no heat applied to the barrel after machining. The lugs are integral, so they need not be applied later on in the process, and no warping of the barrel can occur. The ventilated rib on an Ithaca is easy to replace, being held on by just one screw.

The barrel on an Ithaca Model 37 is threaded into the receiver, with both the receiver and the barrel machined with interrupted threads for a 90 degree turn to fix. This solidifies the assembly, with no rattle or twisting possible. Threaded steel into threaded steel makes for a more rigid assembly than a slip-fit approach. Quality target rifles use this method of barrel attachment. Several Ithaca M37 models come with drilled and tapped receivers for scopes or other optics.

Most pumps, including the BPS, and most autoloaders today have “barrel extensions” on the barrel that go into the receiver. As a result and particularly with a slide action, you can get unwanted barrel movement. You can also get wear from the barrel extension pounding itself into the receiver with every shot. The reason for a barrel extension in the first place is to reduce cost. Machining interrupted threads into the barrel and in the receiver is a costly and precise process.

Positive engagement by threads ensures precise alignment, alignment not possible with a slip fit array. To attempt to compensate for misaligned or slightly eccentric barrels, “dual action bars” have been used in the BPS. Ironically, the slickest slide actions ever made, including the venerable old Winchester Model 12, the Squires Bingham model 30 and the Ithaca model 37 have only one action bar. To partially compensate for the twisting and binding of the barrel, the BPS has a barrel tab that protrudes from the top of barrel extension and slips into the top of the receiver.

BPS models use the familiar Invector and Invector Plus choke tubes. Ithaca barrels use Ithaca-Briley chokes, and have elongated forcing cones. The Ithaca M37 shotguns have slimmer forearms than the BPS and new ‘37’s come with ground Pachmayr Decelerator pads rather than hard plastic butt plates.

Most pump actions today have plastic or aluminium trigger guards whereas the Ithaca remains all-steel.

The BPS bolt locks onto the barrel extension, the Ithaca bolt locks directly into the steel receiver.

The key to the Ithaca's durability and light weight comes not from using weaker materials or design changes just to cut machining cost, but rather using close fitting all-steel components that are shaped and sculpted to reduce weight without sacrificing the strength of the metal or original design.

The Ithaca can be a bit cartridge sensitive, they love the old paper cases and experience has taught me to avoid ‘low brass’ ammunition as this has a tendency to stick in the chamber. This is despite the M37 having 2 extractors, top and bottom. Some would find it surprising then that the BPS with its single extractor does not seem to suffer this trait. My opinion is that the design of the chamber and the recess for the cartridge rim is focussed on differing cartridge dimensions and rim shape; i.e. American and European, I would guess that at Miroku the chambers for the BPS are not that dissimilar to their fabulous doubles.

Wood to metal fit is an area of some differing opinions, for my part I think that the earlier BPS models had a superior (hand) fit and current models are a little more (factory) fit with slight ‘step’ at the stock/receiver join not being uncommon. I have always found Ithaca’s to have a good fit and with a production run of 80 years all of my wood will fit on any of my guns with no noticeable gaps at all. During Ithaca’s various financial troubles, some cheapening of the wood quality and finish occurred, nonetheless even these cheaper machine checkered stocks are a good fit. I believe that the workforce at Ithaca ensured that their product was as good as they could make it within the constraints of the budget available. Current models at the top of the range now have superb walnut with a quality of finish that would grace an antique English double.

Strip down of both these shotguns can be tricky with the M37 bolt removal a very interesting procedure. There are many YouTube clips to help you with both guns

The Browning/Miroku BPS, introduced in 1977, is a good looking and smooth shooting shotgun although the trigger can be a touch heavy at around 6-7 lbs. The Ithaca Model 37 is a piece of firearms history that just keeps getting better. They are half-brothers with a common parentage, history and ancestry. Both guns are eminently suited for left and right handed shooters and both are suitable for a variety of uses, they are solid and dependable, great fun on clays too! (also, if you shoot a discipline like compak you’re not chucking empty cartridges into the shooter on your right!) Two shotguns that many people compare for their one common feature but two very different guns nonetheless, I love them both!

​My BPS

​My new '77 model 37prior to strip down and renovation

Edited May 25, 2017 by impala59

[Mr.C]

Thank you, very informative. Are there any others that eject underneath or are they the only 2?

[Scrumbag]

Thanks Impala. I have a BPS and love to have a play with an Ithaca for comparison.

 

Scrummy

[Wingman]

Evening Gents

 

I know this has been posted before but wanted to ask again..

 

I am going clay shooting this Sunday at Valley View in Gt Missenden and really want to try a round with my Mossberg. I have seen others shoot pumps there once or twice and a few of the old boys gave them a bit of a look. I just wondered what sort of comments or reception any fellow members of pump club have had when using their pumps at clay shoots? It doesnt look "tactical" the only thing I have replaced so far is the forend with a classic corncob one, the rest is stock.

 

Apologies for asking this again but would appreciate your comments!

 

Happy pumping

[impala59]

Thank you, very informative. Are there any others that eject underneath or are they the only 2?

 

A few oddballs out there but predominately the Remington model 17, the grand daddy of the 37 and BPS and one that I would dearly love to acquire at some time!

 

 

Evening Gents

 

I know this has been posted before but wanted to ask again..

 

I am going clay shooting this Sunday at Valley View in Gt Missenden and really want to try a round with my Mossberg. I have seen others shoot pumps there once or twice and a few of the old boys gave them a bit of a look. I just wondered what sort of comments or reception any fellow members of pump club have had when using their pumps at clay shoots? It doesnt look "tactical" the only thing I have replaced so far is the forend with a classic corncob one, the rest is stock.

 

Apologies for asking this again but would appreciate your comments!

 

Happy pumping

 

This crops up now and again, I have always found that politely telling the shoot director/owner that you are using a pump and asking if there are any procedures that are required for the site (gun kept in bag, safety flag, muzzle up/down when leaving the stand etc etc) works well and shows a responsible attitude and respect for your fellow shooters. Waiting for a stand and racking a pump has got to be the biggest no no and would justifiably get the offender removed from the site. Showing good safety, loading, jam clearing and unloading drills promotes discussion from a positive point of view (the reverse is also true) If you have ever shot PSG put the same rules unto your conduct on the clay range, treat all guns as if they are loaded, be muzzle aware, stay switched on and be safe.

Safe gun handling promotes goodwill amongst your peers, you may even have the 'old boys' asking about your choice of gun (particularly and hopefully if you do really well on the scores!)

[Opossum]

Yeah barrel up, safety flag in.

 

You do get looks and whispers. You have to let your shooting do the talking

 

I took my Wingmaster to Oak Edge a while back, and the first stand I had all the whispers and funny looks, then after straighting it got asked "what's your secret?". I wish I'd said "Full choke" to rub it in a bit further!

 

 

 

Oh, I did get challenged by a trapper at a comp using a pump. He said they're not allowed. I looked up CPSA rules on my phone there and then, and they are, but only Section 2 apparently. Dunno if he thought it was Sec1 or was just being grumpy but it put a damper on my day! (until I ended up scoring half-decently )

Edited May 26, 2017 by Opossum

[Wingman]

Great advice thanks guys.

[throdgrain]

I've taken my Wingmaster to Horne many times, you might get the occasional funny look but hardly ever, I think people are less stuck up thier own ***** than they were even 10 years ago. Like the man says, if you shoot well with it, all the better.