paul2012 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 ok so what size should i buy next week when i get my first carts? 6, 7, 7.5 personally not interested in the brand yet, gun shop reccomends 6 but what do you lot think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 ok so what size should i buy next week when i get my first carts? 6, 7, 7.5 personally not interested in the brand yet, gun shop reccomends 6 but what do you lot think? 28-32grams of number 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 If you're decoying and 45 yards ish is enough for you, then whereas there's nothing wrong with No 6 (or 7 for that matter) - they'll kill somewhat further out - and if you think (hope) that you're going to fire quite a few, then a gentle 28gram load of 61/2 will be easier on the shoulder - it has the same amount of pellets as the heavier 32grams of 6 so the only difference is a marginal reduction in effective range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2012 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Cool, I think i'll get 6 and 7's and see what i prefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Cool, I think i'll get 6 and 7's and see what i prefer That's the answer mate, decide for yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2012 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 i guess so, the trouble with any hobby really is if you ask ten people the same question you'll get 10 different answers, At least i have got 2 sizes to kick off lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 i guess so, the trouble with any hobby really is if you ask ten people the same question you'll get 10 different answers, At least i have got 2 sizes to kick off lol Very true... Don't discount 5s either, they are my preffered load and use them for all my shooting, decoying, flighting, roosting, walked up days, driven days, rough shooting etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 i guess so, the trouble with any hobby really is if you ask ten people the same question you'll get 10 different answers, At least i have got 2 sizes to kick off lol Yeah, if you ask people what their favourite shot size is, you should get different answers. If you ask me what shotsize i would recommend, i would say 5 - 7.5. It really annoys me when people say to never use clay cartridges because they aren't up to the job - they are! I've even shot plenty of 30 yard pigeon with 9s just to prove a point. Use ANY shotsize from 5 - 7.5 and you won't go far wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 And they'd be ballistics experts wouldn't they. Why wouldn't they be. A fair salary cheque and/or an anti/RSPB member would secure the services of a competent ballistician - they don't all work for the BASC. Know your enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I rather thought the clay loads used higher antimony / harder shot to improve chances of breaking clays especially edge on at distance. Logic says this harder shot can't be a disadvantage when used on quarry. Anyone who has prepared or eaten shot game must know that lead pellets don't deform and flatten or mushroom to actually increase killing effect in the same way a bullet does! They might on a steel pattern plate but not soft bodies with fine boned skeletons such as birds or rabbits. Game cartridges don't have the same level of antimony in the shot because they don't need it and therefore it reduces cost / increases profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Picked up some classic game 7's at the weekend.shot 4 for 4 yesterday all on the outside of the pattern all dead. Not a proper test, was encouraging though. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lksopener Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 12 gauge 7.5 28g are fine and I've shot hundreds. There are some 29g 6's in my local at £44 a slab which is reasonable. Recently got a 20g semi auto and had a mix of shells due to the misses experimenting to find what she likes. 21g 7.5 24g 6.5 28g 8's and all three hit the pigeons fine on a recent day out. I don't limit myself to range other than consider is that sensible? If it is ill have a go. My perception of that is more than likely inside 50 yards. It's horses for courses use what you like/can afford. 12 gauge 7.5 28g are fine and I've shot hundreds. There are some 29g 6's in my local at £44 a slab which is reasonable. Recently got a 20g semi auto and had a mix of shells due to the misses experimenting to find what she likes. 21g 7.5 24g 6.5 28g 8's and all three hit the pigeons fine on a recent day out. I don't limit myself to range other than consider is that sensible? If it is ill have a go. My perception of that is more than likely inside 50 yards. It's horses for courses use what you like/can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 this seems to be a well rounded argument, with no fisty-cuffs.... now, how about another part of the argument, this forum is a great resource, the best for reloading. now..... as a arguing point to the 7.5 vs 6 pellets for decoyed pigeon, why do the domestic shotmakers / shot drippers on here continually make #6 shot? why dont they make the so called "superior 7.5s ? " out of all the choice that the pigeon shooters here they opt for the classic #6, Do any shot makers choose to make and shoot 7.5s at pigeons? out of all the control of primers, powder types, powder brands and powder amounts, the ONE and only constant is the #6 projectile. just throwing it out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 this seems to be a well rounded argument, with no fisty-cuffs.... now, how about another part of the argument, this forum is a great resource, the best for reloading. now..... as a arguing point to the 7.5 vs 6 pellets for decoyed pigeon, why do the domestic shotmakers / shot drippers on here continually make #6 shot? why dont they make the so called "superior 7.5s ? " out of all the choice that the pigeon shooters here they opt for the classic #6, Do any shot makers choose to make and shoot 7.5s at pigeons? out of all the control of primers, powder types, powder brands and powder amounts, the ONE and only constant is the #6 projectile. just throwing it out there Dont they use 7's 8's and 9's on live quarry over in the u.s.a? Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Dont they use 7's 8's and 9's on live quarry over in the u.s.a? Karpman yes they do, but, the shotsizes are larger. uk#6 is US#7 or thereabouts. they shoot 7s and 8s at dove. it is a smaller bird, completely different to pigeon. they also reload for shooting doves and use US#6 which equates to not far off UK#5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 this seems to be a well rounded argument, with no fisty-cuffs.... now, how about another part of the argument, this forum is a great resource, the best for reloading. now..... as a arguing point to the 7.5 vs 6 pellets for decoyed pigeon, why do the domestic shotmakers / shot drippers on here continually make #6 shot? why dont they make the so called "superior 7.5s ? " out of all the choice that the pigeon shooters here they opt for the classic #6, Do any shot makers choose to make and shoot 7.5s at pigeons? out of all the control of primers, powder types, powder brands and powder amounts, the ONE and only constant is the #6 projectile. just throwing it out there Conventional thinking, no more. In any case 7.5 is not superior to 6 merely just as good at short ranges and up to around 40 yards through tight chokes. Nobody seriously maintains they're better just that 6 is not the King. Personally I believe 7's to be better overall than 6's because of pattern density. Shot makers would and could make 7 shot if they wanted to but first they have to try them and be convinced they're every bit as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Conventional thinking, no more. In any case 7.5 is not superior to 6 merely just as good at short ranges and up to around 40 yards through tight chokes. Nobody seriously maintains they're better just that 6 is not the King. Personally I believe 7's to be better overall than 6's because of pattern density. Shot makers would and could make 7 shot if they wanted to but first they have to try them and be convinced they're every bit as good. Conventional thinking, no more. In any case 7.5 is not superior to 6 merely just as good at short ranges and up to around 40 yards through tight chokes. Nobody seriously maintains they're better just that 6 is not the King. Personally I believe 7's to be better overall than 6's because of pattern density. Shot makers would and could make 7 shot if they wanted to but first they have to try them and be convinced they're every bit as good. The statement that, 'pattern kills' is as true today as it's ever been. With 7.5 you have to come down to a 21 gram load before you equal the pellet count of a 32gram load of No 6. With anything heavier than the 21, there'll be pellets in abundance. The pellet density of No 6/32 is deemed sufficient with a reasonable degree of choke out to the 50 yards or so energy limit. As it is more usual for pattern to fail before energy, the mistaken idea that hitting the quarry with numerous pellet strikes although none have sufficient lethal energy will never-the-less still kill rarely, if ever, bears consideration. As the opening statement is such that the energy levels are satisfactory is taken for granted and as as has been shown 7.5 more often than not (if not, in fact, always) has a higher pellet count than required, what is the need for, "through tight chokes"? Surely, all this achieves is, assuming the bird is killed within the effective energy level range is to render it unpalatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Conventional thinking, no more. In any case 7.5 is not superior to 6 merely just as good at short ranges and up to around 40 yards through tight chokes. Nobody seriously maintains they're better just that 6 is not the King. Personally I believe 7's to be better overall than 6's because of pattern density. Shot makers would and could make 7 shot if they wanted to but first they have to try them and be convinced they're every bit as good. My thoughts entirely. I have never pretended that a 7.5 shot is a better choice for killing pigeons than a 6, merely that it is more than capable for getting the job done. My argument lies with those that maintain that it is unsporting or disrespectful to shoot a pigeon with a 'clay' load. A few years back i was firmly in the 32gm 6 camp, but due to cost rises i have been educated that it doesn't have to be a big load/shot that kills pigeons. When i go shooting, i usually take a mix of cartridges with me. I am quite happy to use 6,7 or 7.5, knowing they will all do the job i want. My favourite shotsize for pigeons these days is 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washerboy Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Is there any clay loads in 7,s or do you buy game loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Is there any clay loads in 7,s or do you buy game loads They just buy European 7 1/2 clay loads which equate to an English 7 though my box of Lyalvale English Sporter fibre 7 1/2s are actually 8s when measured. As long as we are all happy with what we shoot who cares I suppose. Edited March 5, 2013 by sitsinhedges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Is there any clay loads in 7,s or do you buy game loads Almost all the established manufacturers do a 7 option in their top 28g loads, I've used Eley Superbs and they were mustard, also managed to buy some Express World Cup 7's recently which are very good. Almost all foreign clay loads of 7.5 are in truth English 7's. In the olden days you could easily buy game shells loaded with 7 shot but lately I've noticed this getting harder and harder, just lazy greedy manufacturers making things easier for themselves by offering 6 or 6.5; in fact a few home manufacturers have even started loading to European spec game sizes meaning even a 6 can turn out to be 5.5 ! Edited March 5, 2013 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Just out of interest, does anyone know the nominal diameter and pellets per ounce of English 71/2 and where is it detailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Just out of interest, does anyone know the nominal diameter and pellets per ounce of English 71/2 and where is it detailed. 2.3 mm and some 398 pellets in 28g loads from memory ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 2.3 mm and some 398 pellets in 28g loads from memory ! Many thanks. Apart from Henry's pinned list above, I've never found them listed in any references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 the new ultra competition shells for fitasc are an adequate intermediate. #6.5, but they cost as much as pigeon loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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