Tam Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Beretta Extrema 2 - 3.5" chambers for the heaviest super magnum steel Goose loads & will cycle down to the lightest 21g clay loads :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyshireDale. Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Thanks fellas, great stuff. So, what ABOUT that Hatsan Escort? In the distant past I had an ancient English hammer gun, bought it for £7 and 10 shillings, my very first wage packet, all of it! Used it for pigeons and ducks. I've already noted Wabbitbosher (and Flazz) Thanks Ghost. That Yeoman he's currently selling is very tempting for pigeons. I wouldn't mind getting another for the steel shot jobs. I think I'll just go to these two and trust them to sell me the right thing/s. I've learned a lot from these posts. Thanks to all. Hatsan?? Normally, I'd rather buy an old quality thing than a cheapo new one. Strikes me there could be quite a bit to go wrong in a semi-automatic shotgun. Had a semi-auto rimfire once that was a sod for jamming, etc. dont forget that just because the gun you have is not stamped for "steel" does not mean it cant be used!...only the modern guns carry the "steel proof" stamp...older guns can be used quite safely, I used a AYAno3 magnum 3" for wildfowling most of last season, choked qtr & qtr with steel home loads and the barrels are like mirrors inside!! to be honest its all about the safe pressure, not the fact that steel shot is being used...steel cartridges contain a different wad designed "not to allow" the shot to come in contact with the barrels thats all, if the steel shot came in contact with a "steel proofed" barrel it will still score the barrel!!....steel cartridge = steel wad....lead cartridge = lead wad..simple as that...look what "pressure" your gun is proofed at and buy cartridges to suit...steel or lead..makes no difference!...no tighter than Half choke though!! Edited March 3, 2013 by DerbyshireDale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I think some of have lost sight of the original question. The guy wants a gun for decoying geese inland. Using decoys enables the geese to be brought in close and while 10 bores are fine for flighting over head shots they are a bit clumbersome for use in a hide over decoys . I would suggest you have two choices , go for a 3 inch steel proof gun if you expect to shoot quite a few shells or if you expect your bag to be more modest use Tungstun , Bismuth or Hevi shot in your present gun at least for the first season. The shells will cost you a lot more , but it will be cheaper than buying a new gun. For over two decades back in the days when we could use lead i only used 2 3\4 inch shells ( no 3 shot ) on pinks on the foreshore and bagged a lot of geese, probably a lot more than the average fowler on this forum. Only when steel became law did I step up my gun size to a 3.5 inch 12. After your first season you will have a better idea of your future needs and then if neccessary get a new gun with a bigger chamber. Edited March 3, 2013 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chacotawas Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Wow! Mine of useful information. I have noted everything. Thank you one and all. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) dont forget that just because the gun you have is not stamped for "steel" does not mean it cant be used!...only the modern guns carry the "steel proof" stamp...older guns can be used quite safely, I used a AYAno3 magnum 3" for wildfowling most of last season, choked qtr & qtr with steel home loads and the barrels are like mirrors inside!! to be honest its all about the safe pressure, not the fact that steel shot is being used...steel cartridges contain a different wad designed "not to allow" the shot to come in contact with the barrels thats all, if the steel shot came in contact with a "steel proofed" barrel it will still score the barrel!!....steel cartridge = steel wad....lead cartridge = lead wad..simple as that...look what "pressure" your gun is proofed at and buy cartridges to suit...steel or lead..makes no difference!...no tighter than Half choke though!! It isn't just the wad that is the issue with steel loads in older guns. Steel is not compressible whereas lead (to a degree) is. The shot column is squeezed when it passes through the forcing cone and choke, and lead is a little more ductile and hence forgiving when this happens. Forcing cones in modern guns are designed for thinner plastic cases with crimped closures. They are longer and more gradual to allow for the difference in case wall thickness and greater case length after firing. They are also often 'back bored' to reduce pressure and felt recoil. Older guns often have very short and abrupt forcing cones, designed for thick paper cases with rolled closures and over shot cards. These aren't ideal with modern ammo when a hard shot column meets severe forcing cone. Add that to tight fixed chokes, variable internal diameter and steel quality etc in old barrels and you have a few other factors which may not be conducive to steel use. I'm not saying your AYA No 3 isn't perfectly safe with steel, it probably is - they are strong, well put together guns, but I'd be a bit wary with some older side by sides! Edited March 4, 2013 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chacotawas Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I'm grateful for the time and trouble you folks have taken here. I'm sure this wee mine of information will prove valuable to many others, not just me. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Get a side by side or O/U stay clear of autos, has a benelli M2 horrible lumpy thing with no feel and lots of mechanical noise when firing and the third shot in rarely needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshAndy Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Beretta Extrema 2 - 3.5" chambers for the heaviest super magnum steel Goose loads & will cycle down to the lightest 21g clay loads :good: +1 the perfect all round shotgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomboom14 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I use an SXP, 28" barrels, it simply does everything reliably. Personally I find for best results you only need a selection of chokes and through some basic pattern testing, find which gives you the best results for the range and species your targeting. It sounds simple but how many people actually spend a few hours with your chosen cartridges to find the best results for you, I'm not saying you have to test a range of cartridges, just choose the ones you prefer and find a choke which best suits them at the range you want to shoot, simples!! Whats more its amazing how it can really benefit your confidence once your happy that you are giving yourself the best opportunity with your chosen equipment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) this is an eternally asked question and subject to personal opinion the decision about wether to use steel or bismuth etc is a personal financial one... remember you need steel proof is you want that option safely the decision about ou or sbs or auto is one of personal preference the cost of the gun is down to your bank balance which brand comes down to which you prefer/fits you better chamber length ... the shorter the chamber the more limited you are on cartridge choice... you can fire a 2 1/2 inch cart out of a 3 1/2 chamber but not vice versa the main criteria is does it fit you, do you fell comfortable with it and can you hit the target with it Most clay grounds have gun shops selling second hand guns where they will allow you to try out the gun on clays for free as long as they think they will get a sale. go there find ones that feel good to you and give them a try. good luck Edited March 15, 2013 by nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B B Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Thanks fellas, great stuff. So, what ABOUT that Hatsan Escort? In the distant past I had an ancient English hammer gun, bought it for £7 and 10 shillings, my very first wage packet, all of it! Used it for pigeons and ducks. I've already noted Wabbitbosher (and Flazz) Thanks Ghost. That Yeoman he's currently selling is very tempting for pigeons. I wouldn't mind getting another for the steel shot jobs. I think I'll just go to these two and trust them to sell me the right thing/s. I've learned a lot from these posts. Thanks to all. Hatsan?? Normally, I'd rather buy an old quality thing than a cheapo new one. Strikes me there could be quite a bit to go wrong in a semi-automatic shotgun. Had a semi-auto rimfire once that was a sod for jamming, etc. You have been away from the sport a long time, so any set preferences you developed back then are probably well diluted by now, So it is a new start and given the perimeters you have outlined i would be reluctant to advise buying a gun of any kind over about 500 pounds. This is my self imposed limit, based on what i feel most people could buy a gun and afford to side line it to the back up gun status if they ultimately decided to move on in due course, and not forgetting this is based again on my financial take on the matter because i have no idea of yours. Now the gun. I think a 12 bore is your best option the versatility of a multi choke although not essential in any, is in my opinion a feature your gun should have given the tasks you outlined in your posts above. Pigeons and ultimately geese ? you need a 3 inch chambered gun minimum again its not essential but it is practical. A 3.5 inch gun would be useful too however a longer action length and generally speaking a little more weight in the guns in that clambering although desirable in a pure wildfowling gun, are perhaps not ideal in a pigeon gun, and it is for this reason i am choosing to dismiss the 3.5 inch from the equation. What type of gun you chose is dictated by what you are doing where you are doing it and personal preference, now as you have just the one gun to go at you have to consider the facts and be prepared for some compromising some where. So when you look at the requirement i feel are relative so far 500 pounds 12 bore multi choke and a 3 inch chamber you are narrowing down the options fast, SXS s in 3 inch although some are multi choke most are not and even second hand 500 pounds wont i feel get you a multi choked magnum SxS. Over and under shotguns in 3 inch multi choke are far more common than Sxs s in that configuration and you will have guns to chose from but at 500 pounds a new gun could be a struggle to find i think. Next up Pumps and semi autos, Plenty of these to chose from for the 500 pounds, but the fact you are perhaps not well versed in operating a pump action could be a problem, and for this reason i personally would dismiss the pump if i were you. Semi autos are practical for many reasons most are gas operated and this aspect of their design tends to reduce felt recoil even inertia guns reduce the felt recoil to some extent but it has to be said not as significantly as long recoil or gas systems tend to. Semi autos operate inline when loading unloading this aspect makes them useful and above all quite inherently safe in the confines of a hide where a break open style gun as the potential to hang up in foliage netting or god forbid mud. However as a counter to this tend to be less dependable if they do actually take on any dirt or debris in the field. Taking all the above points in to account i would buy a semi auto 12bore multi choke 3 inch magnum . i would buy new for the simple reason you could spend much of your 500 pounds on fuel running up and down the country looking at used shotguns, when you buy new you are buying a known quantity with a guarantee and if you buy a popular brand with a good spares/repairs back up sold by a well established company, whom most gun dealers in the uk have some regular interaction, you will have no problem ordering a gun or getting it repaired if anything should go wrong. The obvious and only practical choice in my opinion is the Hatsan Escort 3 inch magnum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 The only real problem with having a 10 in the safe is it sits there pretty much all year taking up space ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) The obvious and only practical choice in my opinion is the Hatsan Escort 3 inch magnum. ROTFL......good one ! Edited March 16, 2013 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 The only real problem with having a 10 in the safe is it sits there pretty much all year taking up space ha ha You could use it in pigeons, it'd just be expensive and abit of an overkill alot of the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 You could use it in pigeons, it'd just be expensive and abit of an overkill alot of the time! Not bad on the crows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Not bad on the crows I seem to recall reading that many years ago 10 bore was more popular than 12 bore, i've seen loading data for 2 7/8" cases with 1 1/4 of lead, so 10 could be used for everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I seem to recall reading that many years ago 10 bore was more popular than 12 bore, i've seen loading data for 2 7/8" cases with 1 1/4 of lead, so 10 could be used for everything! The only problem with that is it weighs 12 lb when loaded ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 The only problem with that is it weighs 12 lb when loaded ha ha Just have to hit the gym Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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