What would a Ukip Britain look like?

[Nial]

The point was ukip are wanting to stop funding for wind power and use coal. With out the support of the government people won't advance the technology used in renewable energy as nowhere to sell the final product on to.

 

Germany are currently building a load (don't have a reference for the number but it's >10 I think) brown coal fired power stations.

 

Yet for some reason we're shutting down cleaner coal fired power stations because of EU directives.

 

As before, a small amount of wind power can make a contribution to the generation mix, but when this gets past a certain percentage you have to start building

conventional power stations in parallel as backup for when the wind doesn't blow. And there are significant periods when the wind doesn't blow over the

majority of the UK.

 

Even if you cover the country in windmills, tidal and all the other 'renewable' generation you can think of you'll _still_ need conventional power

stations to meet our demand.

 

Nial

[FalconFN]

Defence of our island....against who?......Zee Germans.....

As far as I know our membership of Nato has never been dependant on being in the EU.

 

Nial

I didn't write the UKIP manifesto, you'd need to ask them why they would double the spend on defence.

[IXI KARL IXI]

 

 

The EU sells much more into Britain than Britains exports to the rest of the EU.

 

They couldn't afford to impose any trade barriers, and as I posted before MEXICO has negotiated the same trade access that we have as a member of the EU (and Norway and Sweden).

 

Nial

 

The countries you have listed do trade with Europe, but still have to follow the EU laws/rules on trade, if they (EU) change then them countries have no say it. Also have different trade taxes

 

Exactly, are you saying mr, Mercedes,VW,Renault,BMW,Citroen, etc are not going to export cars to our island what a load of rubbish, you can still trade with Europe without being in it that's just scaremongering and people fall for it everytime......

 

Re the car company's not exporting to us no they will still export it will just cost more. Nissan moved some production of qashqai/note to a Russian factory for the Russian market due to trade costs. Certian companies use the UK as a foot in the door to EU. if we werent members then nissan would shut up the factorys here and move to india (which they have done micra is made there) or else where. why pay us good money, when you can pay a third to someone else? This subject (re cars) I know too much about as i get weekly monthly briefs on the EU market and how it effects us (Nissan). You would be surprised how much hinges on the EU re manufacturing in this country, I was.

[Nial]

The countries you have listed do trade with Europe, but still have to follow the EU laws/rules on trade, if they (EU) change then them countries have no say it. Also have different trade taxes

 

Yes, but the rules only apply to goods traded with the EU, where we have the situation that the other 80% of our economic activity is burdened by european legislation.

 

You would be surprised how much hinges on the EU re manufacturing in this country, I was.

 

As before the rest of Europe can't afford to start imposing trade barriers if we left, they stand to lose a lot more than we do.

[kdubya]

The countries you have listed do trade with Europe, but still have to follow the EU laws/rules on trade, if they (EU) change then them countries have no say it. Also have different trade taxes

 

 

 

Re the car company's not exporting to us no they will still export it will just cost more. Nissan moved some production of qashqai/note to a Russian factory for the Russian market due to trade costs. Certian companies use the UK as a foot in the door to EU. if we werent members then nissan would shut up the factorys here and move to india (which they have done micra is made there) or else where. why pay us good money, when you can pay a third to someone else? This subject (re cars) I know too much about as i get weekly monthly briefs on the EU market and how it effects us (Nissan). You would be surprised how much hinges on the EU re manufacturing in this country, I was.

 

ask them at your next monthly brief how much subsidy they received from the uk govt or why they are avoiding corporation tax by using swiss accounts. seems they want more than a foot in the door.

 

KW

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2230999/Nissan-sells-UK-cars-Switzerland-tax-ruse.html

[IXI KARL IXI]

 

 

Germany are currently building a load (don't have a reference for the number but it's >10 I think) brown coal fired power stations.

 

Yet for some reason we're shutting down cleaner coal fired power stations because of EU directives.

 

As before, a small amount of wind power can make a contribution to the generation mix, but when this gets past a certain percentage you have to start building

conventional power stations in parallel as backup for when the wind doesn't blow. And there are significant periods when the wind doesn't blow over the

majority of the UK.

 

Even if you cover the country in windmills, tidal and all the other 'renewable' generation you can think of you'll _still_ need conventional power

stations to meet our demand.

 

Nial

 

Yes you do need other power stations to support, like I had said in pervious posts it about balance. Ukip wants to stop the support of wind power and promote coal power, it's a step backwards. If you don't help with funding then a area won't be explored and no further advancement would be made.

[IXI KARL IXI]

 

 

Yes, but the rules only apply to goods traded with the EU, where we have the situation that the other 80% of our economic activity is burdened by european legislation.

 

 

 

As before the rest of Europe can't afford to start imposing trade barriers if we left, they stand to lose a lot more than we do.

 

It's not the case of a trade barrier it's the problems and cost. Small knock on effects so to speak

[Nial]

Yes you do need other power stations to support, like I had said in pervious posts it about balance. Ukip wants to stop the support of wind power and promote coal power, it's a step backwards. If you don't help with funding then a area won't be explored and no further advancement would be made.

 

The _only_ think that's keeping it going it the unreasonably large amount of money we're all having to pay for wind generation.

 

I'm all for progress but when governments artificially support something it _doesn't_ encourage development and innovation.

 

Here's a possible game changer...

 

[955i]

Instead of thinking of just one source of power eg 5000 strangford needed. Couple that with wind power offshore wind farms, solar power, small hydro power stations for towns near rivers. It all adds up. People are looking at all or nothing. Coal power isn't the answer for the uk we don't have high grade coal any more really coupled with the cost of reintroducing mining we would just import coal. Like someone else said once the demand heightens for coal so will the price. The point was ukip are wanting to stop funding for wind power and use coal. With out the support of the government people won't advance the technology used in renewable energy as nowhere to sell the final product on to.

My point exactly, it is finding things that can relieve strain on power stations and fossil fuel reserves, not an instant replacement.

[IXI KARL IXI]

 

 

ask them at your next monthly brief how much subsidy they received from the uk govt or why they are avoiding corporation tax by using swiss accounts. seems they want more than a foot in the door.

 

KW

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2230999/Nissan-sells-UK-cars-Switzerland-tax-ruse.html

 

The government gave a large sum to build the "battery plant" creating a load of jobs. Also the firms used to build the plant where paid, then more staff where hired and kept in a job to build "leaf". NMUK got the go ahead to build leaf due to the battery plant. Not to mention a load of other local suppliers getting new contacts to build parts etc etc As for dodging tax and hidden Swiss accounts, would you pay tax if you could get round it? I wouldn't but am not defending Nissan just using it as a example people think its black and white, but don't think of the hidden implication. As I said before if we could get a clean break from the EU go for it.

[figgy]

 

 

It's the case of paying in £8bn per year, we export about £400bn to EU per year. Leaving is not just the money we have people working in EU countries would could loose there jobs due to not be eligible to work in EU countries, it all depends on what deal we can work out for leaving. I think leaving is a good idea but if tomorrow we said no more EU where would it leave us? But we can't just stop like that. It would take years to leave probably longer than one party was in charge. Then you need to next political power to keep it up.

 

The non EU Scandinavian countries seem to do rather well without being in and still work all over Europe.

 

Figgy

[kdubya]

My point exactly, it is finding things that can relieve strain on power stations and fossil fuel reserves, not an instant replacement.

 

problem is your going to need the best part of 20 gigawatt's and soon, renewable s and energy efficiency aint gonna match that, so go on tell me how we will fill our "energy gap"

KW

[Reece]

UKIP use a report created in 2008 by Gerard batten ukip MEP which claims its costing the uk £65bn a year to be in the EU. It gets to this amount by using figures from knock on effects eg upholding laws/rules and policy created by the EU. It's clever way of making the figure higher for shock value. The policy's it uses to create a larger figure would still need to be monitored by the uk if we where in the EU or not so the cost is still there.

 

Did it not occur to you that maybe a lot of EU policies would be scrapped or at least altered if Britain left the EU, and that maybe not every EU policy would be retained? Excessive legislation and the red tape the EU creates is one of the reasons many people oppose it. If we left the EU, a lot of it would go.

 

The countries you have listed do trade with Europe, but still have to follow the EU laws/rules on trade, if they (EU) change then them countries have no say it. Also have different trade taxes

 

We would have a say in it even if we left. As has been said, the EU sells much more to Britain than Britain does to the rest of the EU. They need us more than we need them, so although we would be outside the EU, we would still have influence as they would need to conider us for their own economic interests.

We should also be trading with other countries outside the EU. The EU trades with plenty of non EU countries but being outside the EU does not seem to cause them any problems.

 

 

Besides, there are other things to debate. Over 60% of our laws are made by Europe. Sovereignty of the British nation is paramount, and is not an optional extra which can be discarded. In my opinion, the loss of sovereignty caused by the EU cannot be justified by the highly debatable benefits of the EU, which are always exaggerated.

British people and British government should get to make laws for Britain, not the EU.

 

And then there's the issue of democratic consent. Aside from the democratic defecit inside the EU, no one voted for what we have now. The British people have never had a chance to vote on our current arrangement of the EU. People can denigrate Euroskeptics all they want, but the EU has been forced down our throats.

[955i]

problem is your going to need the best part of 20 gigawatt's and soon, renewable s and energy efficiency aint gonna match that, so go on tell me how we will fill our "energy gap"

KW

OK, I suggest we wire up all hamster and chinchilla wheels in the country. Little ******* are never off them, that will help. Never said I was going to cure the energy problem, just suggesting they put effort into other alternatives rather than just wind. Hydro needn't be reliant on tide, should be possible for them to be placed deeper and work on current movement. How? No idea, I am an ecologist not a hydrological engineer but I'm sure technology must exist that could make it possible.

[IXI KARL IXI]

 

 

Did it not occur to you that maybe a lot of EU policies would be scrapped or at least altered if Britain left the EU, and that maybe not every EU policy would be retained? Excessive legislation and the red tape the EU creates is one of the reasons many people oppose it. If we left the EU, a lot of it would go.

 

 

 

We would have a say in it even if we left. As has been said, the EU sells much more to Britain than Britain does to the rest of the EU. They need us more than we need them, so although we would be outside the EU, we would still have influence as they would need to conider us for their own economic interests.

We should also be trading with other countries outside the EU. The EU trades with plenty of non EU countries but being outside the EU does not seem to cause them any problems.

 

 

Besides, there are other things to debate. Over 60% of our laws are made by Europe. Sovereignty of the British nation is paramount, and is not an optional extra which can be discarded. In my opinion, the loss of sovereignty caused by the EU cannot be justified by the highly debatable benefits of the EU, which are always exaggerated.

British people and British government should get to make laws for Britain, not the EU.

 

And then there's the issue of democratic consent. Aside from the democratic defecit inside the EU, no one voted for what we have now. The British people have never had a chance to vote on our current arrangement of the EU. People can denigrate Euroskeptics all they want, but the EU has been forced down our throats.

 

we wouldn't have a say in EU laws and rules if we left, that's a fact as no non EU member has a right. We wouldn't have a choice to pick and choose what laws we agree to and don't.

 

Also the policy's used are relating to farming and fishing and law. We would still need are own policy in regards to farming, fishing and laws. No doubt a big board of MPs and civil servants taking time to decide on how to Change and run things, at a cost of course. Then inspectors to up hold said policy's. I would guess the cost would stay around the same.

[tigger]

http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/2978-eu-in-denial-over-key-euro-issues

[Boromir]

Can I just say something at my work we have a 1MW hydro power station and it has not been working for the past three weeks, due to no rain and frozen grounds. And where I live is probably one of the wettest area's of the UK. Although I like Hydro power stations it has blocked the path of any Trout or Salmon going up the river. Then we are at the stage of working with a community to put up a Wind turbine, which I totally disagree on but cant say anything cause my company is involved. You wouldn't believe how much subsidies these Hydro's and wind turbines get it is unbelievable, saying that it is probably paying my wages..

 

Coal power stations should be built while we look for more efficient and environmentally friendly ways of making power, rather than sticking up hundreds or thousands of wind turbines. And also we should go ahead with this carbon capture they were thinking of a few years back.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Boromir

[FalconFN]

 

 

The non EU Scandinavian countries seem to do rather well without being in and still work all over Europe.

 

 

Figgy

What Norway? A population 5 million, one of the highest oil per capita rates in the world and all the trees you could possibly sell helps them a bit. Denmark may not have the Euro but the Krona is pegged to it and in essence a euro by another name. Sweden, again has low population but is massive and has huge natural resources and they make stuff like volovos and mobile phones. You can't compare apples with pairs.

[kdubya]

What Norway? A population 5 million, one of the highest oil per capita rates in the world and all the trees you could possibly sell helps them a bit. Denmark may not have the Euro but the Krona is pegged to it and in essence a euro by another name. Sweden, again has low population but is massive and has huge natural resources and they make stuff like volovos and mobile phones. You can't compare apples with pairs.

 

your right what has a fruit got to do with two of anything?

 

KW

[FalconFN]

Scandinavian countries probably have a better education system too.

[Nial]

we wouldn't have a say in EU laws and rules if we left, that's a fact as no non EU member has a right. We wouldn't have a choice to pick and choose what laws we agree to and don't.

 

If we're not in then so what? Do you worry about the laws in Taiwan?

 

 

Nial

[Gimlet]

What Norway? A population 5 million, one of the highest oil per capita rates in the world and all the trees you could possibly sell helps them a bit. Denmark may not have the Euro but the Krona is pegged to it and in essence a euro by another name. Sweden, again has low population but is massive and has huge natural resources and they make stuff like volovos and mobile phones. You can't compare apples with pairs.

 

 

Did you mean au pairs?

 

And what's a Volovos? Is it a sort of Scandanavian vol-eu-vent?

[Mk1 Man]

Did you mean au pairs?

 

And what's a Volovos? Is it a sort of Scandanavian vol-eu-vent?

 

That's how you pronounce it in Swedish...Volovo...as in Hello,,,I am Sven from Sveden...I drive A volovo

[figgy]

 

What Norway? A population 5 million, one of the highest oil per capita rates in the world and all the trees you could possibly sell helps them a bit. Denmark may not have the Euro but the Krona is pegged to it and in essence a euro by another name. Sweden, again has low population but is massive and has huge natural resources and they make stuff like volovos and mobile phones. You can't compare apples with pairs.

 

You forgetting we have huge natural reserves in oil natural gas and coal, not only in the UK but in our Sovreign countries aswell.

 

If we were not in Europe our population would be nowhere near what it is now, and a lot less pulling money out of the system.

 

Not being in the EU we wouldnt have to keep devaluing our products to pander to lesser EU countries.

 

Britain was Great without the EU not with it.

 

Figgy

[henry d]

You forgetting we have huge natural reserves in oil natural gas and coal, not only in the UK but in our Sovreign countries aswell. And what happens if they tell us to go away very un-politely?

 

Figgy