What would a Ukip Britain look like?

[overandunder2012]

People from Pakistan, china, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, countless african countries the list can keep going to be honest. These are the people that are also costing us millions,

yes maybe true but it wont change by leaving europe (im in favour of leaving europe), these people mentioned above will still be subject to controlled access as they are now but lapse visa shambles like the schools of english scam and not enforcing fixed time entrys means some just stay on.

 

leaving europe will however seriously reduce eastern european immigration to the uk.

[Nial]

You should be interested in Portugal, and every other European country that we have easy, unlimited access to. The world has changed and isolation is not an option, it is just a choice of which countries we work with.

 

People from Britain worked all over the world, and we welcomed others who wanted to come to the UK before the EU existed.

 

Are there no Americans/ Australians working in EU countries?

 

And _MEXICO_ has a trade agreement with the EU which gives it as much trading rights as any EU country, but which doesn't

stifle the 80% of economic activity (in the UK) that doesn't involve trade with the EU.

 

From a small business point of view it's easier for me to sell stuff outside the EU than inside, there's much less paperwork

and reporting involved.

 

Nial.

[Gimlet]

yes maybe true but it wont change by leaving europe (im in favour of leaving europe), these people mentioned above will still be subject to controlled access as they are now but lapse visa shambles like the schools of english scam and not enforcing fixed time entrys means some just stay on.

 

leaving europe will however seriously reduce eastern european immigration to the uk.

 

Leaving the EU would also reduce immigration from non-European countries. The EU is a Trojan horse for people trying to get to the UK. Once someone has entered a EU member state legally, whether or not they are citizens of that state, they have automatic rights to travel to other member states. That is why the favouted first point of entry are countries like Italy and Greece whose borders have more or less collapsed. Once they have been processed in those countries people can legally go where they like regardless of where they came from originally and there's nothing we can do about it. In fact those who do make it into southern and eastern European states are more often than not rubber-stamped through by officials there to get rid of them, because the authorities in those countries know that once immigrants have aquired the legal right to travel they will head for countries like Britain and become our problem. If they were denied legal status at the point of entry those countries would have to house them in detention centres at their own expense, and for an indefinite period since the ECHR makes it almost impossible to repatriate them.

Our country will have a population exceeding 100 million within 50 years if we don't leave the EU and expell all those who have strolled in with a fraudulent EU ticket. While we're at it tear up Beveridge's New Deal. It is insane to offer automatic right of residency to every member of the Commonwealth just to soothe the post-colonial guilt of a few liberals.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Gimlet

[owdnorthener]

Finally, I think I will be able to vote for a party of proposed change.

 

Normaly you get to vote for one of three .... all as bad as each other, so no chance of any real changes there.

 

Have read on here many arguments for and against ..... for UKIP seems to be winning.

[Reece]

As for the argument about UKIP just splitting the tory vote and getting Labour in,

 

If we continue to vote for the three main parties, then nothing will change.

 

If we vote UKIP, things have a much better chance of changing. It may split the tory vote at first while their support grows but after a certain level of support it will no longer just split the tory vote. Ignore the "it's a wasted vote" lobby and vote for which party you want.

Whether Labour or the Tories get into power is irrelevant while neither is listening.

 

UKIP voters have nothing to lose but potentially a lot to gain.

[kdubya]

exactly, voting for them and hoping for a more right wing goverment will result in a left wing goverment.

 

and not voting for them in the hope the cons will be elected next time (fat chance as they have been given a chance and found out) will result in more immigration, more unemployment, more on benefit and a permanent left wing govt, then we are truly screwed.

 

KW

[Reece]

I know absolutely sweet nothing about politics , but every time I hear about UKIP it's about race, or is it just me

 

The reason that's what you hear is because the political establishment and its supporters always make racism claims. It's become an argument people use to look morally superior, and to discredit legitimate concerns without presenting any counterargument. People use it to stifle debate on important issues.

 

Immigration is one of their main issues, as is the EU, but they are not racist in any way, and they have policies on a range of different issues. Immigration and the EU are just two of the most publicised ones.

[al4x]

As for the argument about UKIP just splitting the tory vote and getting Labour in,

 

so do you really believe this won't happen?

 

As someone with a business who owns their own house this fills me with dread and it is what will happen if ukip get more votes. They have a snowball in hells chance of getting elected but will get labour in at the next election and that is scary

[aris]

As for the argument about UKIP just splitting the tory vote and getting Labour in,

 

If we continue to vote for the three main parties, then nothing will change.

 

If we vote UKIP, things have a much better chance of changing. It may split the tory vote at first while their support grows but after a certain level of support it will no longer just split the tory vote. Ignore the "it's a wasted vote" lobby and vote for which party you want.

Whether Labour or the Tories get into power is irrelevant while neither is listening.

 

UKIP voters have nothing to lose but potentially a lot to gain.

 

I agree. Voting UKIP will most probably let Labour in. But it's a short term pain for long term gain. UKIP can only gain in future elections if Labour get in - and they'll probably be stealing votes from Labour party voters too. The ones who have lost their jobs or had their living standards lowered due to excessive immigration.

[Wiltsmark]

Breath of fresh air, they get my vote.

[al4x]

I agree. Voting UKIP will most probably let Labour in. But it's a short term pain for long term gain.

 

how do you work that one out Labour have a full term to try and spend their way out of trouble..........

[aris]

how do you work that one out Labour have a full term to try and spend their way out of trouble..........

 

When people see their wages lowered or their kids competing for spaces at schools all due to unbridled immigration - UKIP will seem like the right choice. Of course, Labour may well sing the praises of limiting immigration - but there isn't much they can do about EU immigration is there? I'll be honest that i'm worried at what will happen in 2014 when Romania and Bulgaria have access to the UK job market and benefits. The next election may well be in 2015 - and what happens in that 1 year will decide alot of votes.

[Reece]

so do you really believe this won't happen?

 

As someone with a business who owns their own house this fills me with dread and it is what will happen if ukip get more votes. They have a snowball in hells chance of getting elected but will get labour in at the next election and that is scary

 

If their support levels stay the same then yes. If it keeps growing, which it seems to be, then they will get beyond that point of just splitting the tory vote. That's why people need to ignore the "it's a wasted vote" lobby. If people avoid voting for a party they support because they fear it will play into Labour's hands, we will get nowhere and UKIP will remain the party which just splits the tory vote.

 

And as both the Conservatives and Labour aren't exactly the best we've ever had, it's still UKIP for me. UKIP is better than what we have at the moment.

[gemini52]

was that on the dock road by the way between the two bridges,,met him last week ,,nice hard working guy but should be sent back and his job given to one of the british unemployed

 

ok boys tin hat on,,,,,ukip for king,queen,and country

Yes thats the guy,you cant fault his work ethic,but i agree there are to many here,i fear for are youg people,what future do they have.

[Gimlet]

Labour and Cameron's Torys are indistinquishable. A Tory win at the next election will be a continuation of New Labour. The only difference between Osborne and Balls is that Balls will 'cut' 1% slower over a 12 month cycle than Osborne. Both believe in high taxation, ever expanding government and complete surrender to EU imperialism.

Forget your house and your business and think of the next generation for a change. If this delusional middle ground consensus continues they will have no future. They will be born massively in debt with no hope of repaying it or of personal economic advancement, and they will be born without National identity or the right to democratic self determination in an obsolete country that has been reduced to a migrant transit camp. I haven't even got children and I'm not the most generous person, but even I couldn't bring myself to leave that kind of legacy.

[AVB]

Voting UKIP will let Libour in with a big majority. They will then destroy what is left of the UK. UKIP may get a chance after two more terms but by then i fear the damage will be irreversible. The UK will be covered with sink estates north to south. We will be dependant on the EU for handouts (as Ireland etc is) so leaving the EU will never be an option as we would be in their pocket. We will be ****** big time.

 

Like it or not using what little power we have left to exit now or renegotiate a lot better terms is the only option. Sorry but it just is.

 

Anybody who thinks otherwise is living in lah lah land.

[halight]

UKIP has filled and hole on the right.

What will fill the Hole on the left ? Something will come in time.

 

I have been thinking of late, That In 20 years time the Party's that my Kids will vote for will not be the party's of the past.

 

Things are changing. The old party's have messed up. made a mess of things. ripped people off, Taken us into wars we are still trying to get out of of.

What ever your own grip with the main party's of today. Most of us have one.

 

I really do believe that that it will be new formed party's That will be governing us soon.

 

The old order is slowly passing away.

 

Or so it seems,

 

Is it Just me that's starting to think like this?

[Gimlet]

Like it or not using what little power we have left to exit now or renegotiate a lot better terms is the only option. Sorry but it just is.

 

Anybody who thinks otherwise is living in lah lah land.

 

We can't renegotiate. No country can ever renegotiate with the EU, it is constitutionally impossible. Europe has been designed with no reverse gear. Cameron knows this. He has written this self-cancelling caveat into his referendum pledge specifically to ensure that he never has to hold one. THERE WILL BE NO REFERENDUM UNDER CAMERON.

[IXI KARL IXI]

The opt out of the NHS is very worrying, the poorer people will opt out to save money. Then probably not have enough insurance or no insurance and end up in a bad situation. You only need to look at the American health care system. The support coal fired power and not wind farms, is crazy. Sustainable energy is the way forward people who have solar panels save money. Could pick a lot of it apart.

 

• Non means-tested "basic cash benefit" for low earners and unemployed. Jobseekers allowance and incapacity benefit is scrapped.

^ ^ if its non means tested how do lower earners only get it?

 

Certain parts seem to have a few answers but it won't work. If you have ever played SIM CITY on the PC you will understand :Cut taxes, Increase spending, buy the best for the public and heavier taxes on business, all that happens is industry moves away, people loose jobs and you loose money hand over fist. Am sure the conservatives had similar ideas and made similar claims but look where we are now.

 

 

[AVB]

We can't renegotiate. No country can ever renegotiate with the EU, it is constitutionally impossible. Europe has been designed with no reverse gear. Cameron knows this. He has written this self-cancelling caveat into his referendum pledge specifically to ensure that he never has to hold one. THERE WILL BE NO REFERENDUM UNDER CAMERON.

 

I'm not convinced. So Dave goes to the Germans and says "now get me some better terms or I am toast and those UKIP people will get in and exit the EU in which case you (Germany) will be ******" Now the if the Germans believe that UKIP are credible then they can do that or they call Dave's bluff and yes he is toast but Libour get in and the EU is safe for ever. It's a gamble.

[Reece]

We will be dependant on the EU for handouts (as Ireland etc is) so leaving the EU will never be an option as we would be in their pocket. We will be ****** big time.

 

Like it or not using what little power we have left to exit now or renegotiate a lot better terms is the only option. Sorry but it just is.

 

Anybody who thinks otherwise is living in lah lah land.

 

We will not be dependent on the EU for anything. In terms of trade, they need us more than we need them. Less than half of our trade is with EU countries, and not being an EU member is no barrier to trade.

 

Renegotiation is impossible. According to the various treaties our government has signed, all EU regulations must be agreed to in full. The only changes we can make to the EU are either closer union or a complete exit. I vote for the latter. The EU makes over 60% of our laws and costs us £50 million a day, and this is completely unacceptable.

 

http://ukip.org/page/the-truth-about-the-eu

[Reece]

The support coal fired power and not wind farms, is crazy. Sustainable energy is the way forward people who have solar panels save money. Could pick a lot of it apart.

 

It is not crazy to oppose wind farms. They are ugly, they destroy the landscape for everyone, they are actually quite destructive with all the concrete they use for foundations and building of access roads, especially when peat is destroyed, and they don't even do what they are supposed to do.

They are hugely inefficient and we need fossil fuel power stations as a back up. So the question is not whether we want wind farms or fossil fuel power stations, it's "what do we want, a fossil fuel power station or a fossil fuel power station plus thousands of wind turbines".

 

UKIP are not opposed to renewables in principle, but they just don't want them to be funded with excessive government subsides. They want them to be funded by the market. That way, economical solutions would emerge and become popular.

 

Here's an article showing how sustainable wind farms are.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html

Edited March 12, 2013 by Reece

[AVB]

We will not be dependent on the EU for anything. In terms of trade, they need us more than we need them. Less than half of our trade is with EU countries, and not being an EU member is no barrier to trade.

 

Renegotiation is impossible. According to the various treaties our government has signed, all EU regulations must be agreed to in full. The only changes we can make to the EU are either closer union or a complete exit. I vote for the latter. The EU makes over 60% of our laws and costs us £50 million a day, and this is completely unacceptable.

 

http://ukip.org/page...th-about-the-eu

 

But that assumes we have anything left to trade. As I said Libour will get in. They will destroy the country as they tried to do last time. We will be broke and we will be dependant on the EU for handouts. So a vote for UKIP actually drives us closer to Europe not further from it. The only positive from this doomsday scenario is that no immigrants will come here as we will have no welfare system left as we won't be able to afford it. So you will get your way of a little Britain again BUT it will be a destroyed one. Not a slightly broken one as it is today but a wasteland full of nothing but destitute people living on EU handouts.

[Reece]

But that assumes we have anything left to trade. As I said Libour will get in. They will destroy the country as they tried to do last time. We will be broke and we will be dependant on the EU for handouts. So a vote for UKIP actually drives us closer to Europe not further from it. The only positive from this doomsday scenario is that no immigrants will come here as we will have no welfare system left as we won't be able to afford it. So you will get your way of a little Britain again BUT it will be a destroyed one. Not a slightly broken one as it is today but a wasteland full of nothing but destitute people living on EU handouts.

 

Labour would destroy the country, but so would the conservatives. As Gimlet has said there is hardly any difference. Both are supportive of the EU. Whether the Conservatives or Labour get in is irrelevant as neither is listening.

 

We will not be dependent on the EU for handouts. We would be just fine on our own, the EU needs us more than we need them. So no, UKIP would not drive us closer to Europe.

http://ukip.org/page/the-truth-about-the-eu

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100020456/ten-reasons-to-leave-the-eu/

http://ukip.org/page/the-4-lies-about-leaving-the-eu

[al4x]

We will be once the country goes bust under lie bour we would be in the same situation as Greece and Ireland needing to be bailed out.