steel shot

[neillfrbs]

hi all am going to be going wild fowling this comming season as an an associate member with gwa, my question is i have a few guns but none off them would be proffed to shoot steel shot ,have a larona side by side with 30"barrels that will take 3"magnum cartridges dont really care about wrecking it ,would it be ok for my fiirst season ,not going to blow up in my face ect ,or should i just buy another gun like a maxus or sx3. cheers neill.

[anser2]

I would not use anything over RIO Atomic 34 gr steel in a 3 inch lead proof gun unless it was brand new and even then I would want to have it reproofed for steel.. However There was a guy on here who sent a 3 inch AYA no 3 ( in very good condition ) to the Proof house and it passed for 3 inch steel. Its not so much wrecking the gun as the gun wrecking you ! Do not forget you should not have more than 1\2 choke when using steel.

 

If you expect to do a lot of goose shooting I would invest in a new steel proof gun otherwise use your Larona with 2 3\4 inch loads for the first season and then if you join the club as a full member get a steel proof gun. The lighter loads of steel can work surprisingly well from some cartridge makers ( I do well with Gamebore and Rio ) but beware there a few very poor steel shells out there , but go up to at least no 3 shot. For geese , if you do not expect to shoot manay invest in a box of Hevi shot or Tungsten . They are expensive , but if you only expect to shoot a pocket full of shells at geese in a season their lighter loads will do a better job than light steel loads.

[kent]

Get the gun examined by a proper gunsmith and ask the question if he might do so. I know a stack of fowlers that use steel through non steel proofed guns and I am one of them. You can also use std steel under the guidelines that are available through BASC. HP steel is another matter but like I say a lot of us do it. I should fight shy of big shot and treat 1/2 choke as a total max. ITS AT YOUR OWN RISK IF YOU DO THIS and consider you can get a nice enough steel proofed pump or Auto for under £400 often a lot under. Heavy shot is more damaging not less damaging BTW

[neillfrbs]

thanks guys will take all that on board ,will prob just go an get another gun.question is ,is it maxus ,sx3,or browning a5

[kent]

thanks guys will take all that on board ,will prob just go an get another gun.question is ,is it maxus ,sx3,or browning a5

 

Maxus and SX3 are basically the same gun with cosmetic differences, A5? bit outdated done more for the enthusiast IMO

[superspark]

No 3 shot steel would be the eqivilant to No 5 shot in lead. That not enough to kill geese unless they are very very close. This would be ok at a push for duck but I would use at least a 36g No 1 shoot in steel for geese to be sure of a clean kill

[motty]

No 3 shot steel would be the eqivilant to No 5 shot in lead. That not enough to kill geese unless they are very very close. This would be ok at a push for duck but I would use at least a 36g No 1 shoot in steel for geese to be sure of a clean kill

No.3 shot will kill a goose at 35 yards no problem, provided the shot charge is put in the right place.

[kent]

No.3 shot will kill a goose at 35 yards no problem, provided the shot charge is put in the right place.

 

Yep, big canadas at that- but it has to be in the right place like you say

[Reabrook]

I've been using nothing but 3's for geese, mainly Canada's, for the last two seasons and not had a problem.

[superspark]

Everything is killed if the shot is put in the right place but by using a too smaller load and shot size you run a much higher risk of wounding, some thing I wouldn't consider doing.Isan't it better to give yourself the best possible chance of a clean kill in the first place????? I fail to see a valid reason to use a lesser shot size for such a big bird when if you know your going after it.

Its much better to be better prepaired, do your home work and don't take the risk of wounding by an incorrect shot size, that bad practice as far as im concerned.

[kent]

Everything is killed if the shot is put in the right place but by using a too smaller load and shot size you run a much higher risk of wounding, some thing I wouldn't consider doing.Isan't it better to give yourself the best possible chance of a clean kill in the first place? ? ? ?? I fail to see a valid reason to use a lesser shot size for such a big bird when if you know your going after it.

Its much better to be better prepaired, do your home work and don't take the risk of wounding by an incorrect shot size, that bad practice as far as im concerned.

I understand the sentiment but the fact remains. It must be said BB in the wrong place wont kill either, though they are more likely to break a wing et more extreme ranges than 35 yds. It comes down to the shot taken, the range and how the gun handles that shell. The reason to use 3's is simple they are in your gun while shooting duck and a goose gives you a chance of a clean killing shot. My wounding / apparent miss rate is about equal with both shot sizes I recon.

find me the guy with 100% dead in the air to each cartridge and I will show you a big fat liar

[mudpatten]

Lest we forget the old adage, "It`s pattern that kills, not penetration!".

 

I use nothing but no.3 shot when using a 3" cartridge on canadas. Lets also not forget that one needs to put the birds vitals squarely in the middle of the pattern.

 

It`s also a provable fact,especially with larger shot like BB that the pattern will give out at about 30 yards even though individual pellets are lethal way beyond that.

 

Respectfully, there is no such thing as a wrong shot size, only poor range judging and poor marksmanship.

[Reabrook]

 

Its much better to be better prepaired, do your home work and don't take the risk of wounding by an incorrect shot size, that bad practice as far as im concerned.

I've done plenty of homework and after many years consider myself well prepared. I don't take shots if I think there is a chance of only wounding and rarely tolerate bad practice. Despite all that #3 shot remains as my shot size of choice for geese and it works well enough for me to continue doing so

[Guest cookoff013]

the cartridge choice issue is a major one, i think its due to brands and performance.

i do cringe alittle when this issue comes up. either the issues such as limited shotsizes and limiting range that always comes up.

 

but what will happen if the guy wants to shoot beyond 30yards?

what happens if the guy cant cleanly shoot goose heads at 31yards ?

 

personally, the choice of shell for general fowling would be 32g of #2US steel. that would be an un compromising shell, very suitable for ducks and for the odd goose. now i`m not saying it is the best shell, but even at a measly 1400fps its as good as.

 

if the guy was totally geared to shoot geese, then 36g of BB would be on the menu. shells exist and the pattern isnt that thin. BB would be my first choice for dedicated goose shells.

[joknob]

it is mine

the cartridge choice issue is a major one, i think its due to brands and performance.

i do cringe alittle when this issue comes up. either the issues such as limited shotsizes and limiting range that always comes up.

 

but what will happen if the guy wants to shoot beyond 30yards?

what happens if the guy cant cleanly shoot goose heads at 31yards ?

 

personally, the choice of shell for general fowling would be 32g of #2US steel. that would be an un compromising shell, very suitable for ducks and for the odd goose. now i`m not saying it is the best shell, but even at a measly 1400fps its as good as.

 

if the guy was totally geared to shoot geese, then 36g of BB would be on the menu. shells exist and the pattern isnt that thin. BB would be my first choice for dedicated goose shells.

[Chad63]

It's all very confusing talking about 3s, 1s, BBs etc these days. For example Gambore 3s are (correct me if I'm wrong) 3.6mm, didn't 3.6mm used to be classed as a no1 in the old days? Certainly Lyalevale 3.6mm is called a no1. Has anyone ever compared an RC 3 to a Gamebore 3? The RC is smaller yet not as small as a Lyalevale 3 !!!!!! I'm not sure what the Eleys are these days but certainly their early steel no3s were 3.6mm.

[Guest cookoff013]

thats one of the issues, some manufacturers have open interpritation what #1 is. usually gamebore stick to US shotsizes.

european and uk are 1 size smaller.

[grahamch]

_{Why not use something more effective than steel? Hevishot, tungsten and bismuth are far better than steel, although a bit more costly but given the number of shots the average fowler fires the cost shouldn't really be an issue.}

 

_{I use TM 5's on ducks withgreat effect and 1s for geese and dont have to mess around buying a steel proofed gun.}

[Reabrook]

_{Why not use something more effective than steel? Hevishot, tungsten and bismuth are far better than steel, although a bit more costly but given the number of shots the average fowler fires the cost shouldn't really be an issue.}

 

_{I use TM 5's on ducks withgreat effect and 1s for geese and dont have to mess around buying a steel proofed gun.}

I'd have to disagree with that. Not all but most modern day steel loads are excellent, the equivalent of the lead of yesterday year and far superior to bismuth.

 

It has nothing to do with cost I'd still buy them over bismuth etc if they were of equivalent price.

[mudpatten]

Likewise. When the whole NTX fiasco started donkeys years ago I geared up my reloading exclusively to Bismuth. For me, Bismuth certainly works very well, but it`s price is now ridiculously unaffordable. So much so that I`ve been compelled to abandon it for steel.

 

I`ve watched steel come on in leaps and bounds until today, where I`m quite certain that steel, in terms of range and killing ability, is actually better than most people can shoot.

 

I`m only an average shot, but I`ve been priviledged to watch some exceptionally good shots consistantly kill long birds at ranges I can only dream about. It`s true that it eventually does run out of steam at shorter ranges than lead, but the vast majority of us can`t hit birds at those sort of ranges anyway.

 

Which begs the question, Why use some of the ludicrously expensive exotic NTX materials which can kill at long range, but which are beyond the shooting ability of most of us to make economic sense of?

[edenman]

Likewise. When the whole NTX fiasco started donkeys years ago I geared up my reloading exclusively to Bismuth. For me, Bismuth certainly works very well, but it`s price is now ridiculously unaffordable. So much so that I`ve been compelled to abandon it for steel.

 

I`ve watched steel come on in leaps and bounds until today, where I`m quite certain that steel, in terms of range and killing ability, is actually better than most people can shoot.

 

I`m only an average shot, but I`ve been priviledged to watch some exceptionally good shots consistantly kill long birds at ranges I can only dream about. It`s true that it eventually does run out of steam at shorter ranges than lead, but the vast majority of us can`t hit birds at those sort of ranges anyway.

 

Which begs the question, Why use some of the ludicrously expensive exotic NTX materials which can kill at long range, but which are beyond the shooting ability of most of us to make economic sense of?

What an excellent post, especially the last paragraph!!!!!!!

[drone]

Because wildfowling is a dreamer's game and, despite the cost, some of us dreamers tool up with what we consider to be best. I can't hit birds around 30 metres but my old Scott 10 pulls them down when they are 45 or so metres up using a mix of ww 4 and remington 2 in lead when I'm in Scotland and hevishot in England.

At days end £100 for some shells compares well with £90 for diesel to get there and back, then £50 odd a night for bed and board and god knows how much in the bar afterwards, put your costs in perspective fellow dreamers. The things that go bang are the final link in the chain and we are only as good as our weakest link.

That I may be my weakest link goes without saying, but I prefer to surround myself with stronger links.

Edited April 4, 2013 by drone