wattsowatts Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 At the beginning of January I gained permission over nearly 800 acres, the farmer (tenant) was going spare with pigeons hitting his OSR. He wanted me to get into the pigeon, as the game keeper had ignored all requests. I went on and shot over the OSR to eventually be confronted by the gamekeeper who said that the landowner (different person from the tenant obviously) did not want me on the land shooting. I explained that I had written permission from the farm tenant, he said that this was not good enough and they (gamekeeper and landowner) did not want me back on the farm. I obviously spoke to the tenant and explained what had happened he was beside himself and said he would tell the landowner what he thought, but was clear that I could continue shooting. I spoke to him about 5 weeks ago, but have not heard anything from him since and I have not shot there since. Does anyone no the legalities of this, is a tenant farmer allowed to give written permission for people to shoot for crop protection or does the landowner trump this permission. I will ring the tenant farmer back as I would certainly like the shooting on this ground over the summer months, but I would like to get some advice from the forum before doing so. Thanks for you help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I think the normal thing is for the tenant to be able to control vermin , if that be by himself or someone with his permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Tenant farmer has the right to give one person the right to shoot on the land to protect their crop/livestock. Unless stated otherwise in tenancy agreement. Edited March 26, 2013 by TJ91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I think tenants have the inalienable right to control ground game but not avian pests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Tom Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 depends who has the shooting rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 depends who has the shooting rights Sporting (shooting) rights and the right to control pest/vermin are 2 different things. Op...a call to basc would be a good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Yes,it would be a good idea to make certain,otherwise the OP could find himself in a bit of bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcw65 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 tenants are required to control pests and vermin and it is usualy stated in the tenancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.philmypower. Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I was under the impression that sometimes the tenant farmer doesn't have the shooting rights. It's the same with fishing the fishing rights don't allways belong to the tenant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Ive been faced with this exact situation; the gist is, as others have stated that the tennant generally has the right to control pests, or to delegate this out to one other (ie to you), unless tenancy agreement says otherwise (very unusual). however, in terms of lamping at night with rifles , this has to be done with landowner permission. if its your only bit of land i would call the gamekeepers bluff and approach the landowner yourself to discuss - you may well find out the gamekeepers bull-****ting and blaming the landowner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsowatts Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 This make sense, but the landowner in this case is a member of the 'Lorded' gentry and I don't know how to contact him! Ive been faced with this exact situation; the gist is, as others have stated that the tennant generally has the right to control pests, or to delegate this out to one other (ie to you), unless tenancy agreement says otherwise (very unusual). however, in terms of lamping at night with rifles , this has to be done with landowner permission. if its your only bit of land i would call the gamekeepers bluff and approach the landowner yourself to discuss - you may well find out the gamekeepers bull-****ting and blaming the landowner. pegasus bridge, on 26 Mar 2013 - 21:22, said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Unless they are specifically excluded from the Tenancy Agreement (almost unheard of) a Tenant has the right (and responsibility) to control vermin. A Landlord (or other) may have the rights to shoot game on the Tenant's land. The 'Other' (ie someone with the shooting rights which have been granted by The Landlord)will never have the rights to control the vermin unless the Tenant has agreed to it. However in this case, if there is a potential dispute between Landlord and Tenant, the Tenant will be advised to back down. His long term prospects and prosperity may depend on a good relationship with his Landlord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Most landowners hold the shooting rights to their land unless it is stated in the tenancy agreement-I would keep off the land or you risk being prosecuted.You could always speak to the owner and explain that you are only interested in vermin control,if theres a gamekeeper then theres a pheasant shoot which is where the financial interest lies for the owner.In fact if theres a gamekeeper the landowner almost certainly retains the shooting rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Jdog, your post sounds as though you have legal experience in this field, is that the case? I have this situation on one of my farms. I can deal with the rabbits for the tenant farmer under the 1954 pest act. The avian pests are a bit of a bone of contention between the gamekeepers who think they have sole rights to the shooting arrangement and the tenant farmer. Also the problem is furthered by the definition of "vermin" Are corvids vermin, are pigeons vermin? I am interested in your input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Jdog, your post sounds as though you have legal experience in this field, is that the case? I have this situation on one of my farms. I can deal with the rabbits for the tenant farmer under the 1954 pest act. The avian pests are a bit of a bone of contention between the gamekeepers who think they have sole rights to the shooting arrangement and the tenant farmer. Also the problem is furthered by the definition of "vermin" Are corvids vermin, are pigeons vermin? I am interested in your input Have a look at the Tenancy Agreement. Unless the 'vermin shooting rights' have been excluded specifically,(which I have never heard of) then the Tenant has them. Vermin certainly includes all corvids, pigeons, rats, rabbits etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Most landowners hold the shooting rights to their land unless it is stated in the tenancy agreement-I would keep off the land or you risk being prosecuted.You could always speak to the owner and explain that you are only interested in vermin control,if theres a gamekeeper then theres a pheasant shoot which is where the financial interest lies for the owner.In fact if theres a gamekeeper the landowner almost certainly retains the shooting rights. 'shooting rights' generally relate to gamebirds/deer/hares - tennants still have the right to shoot pigeons/rabbits/crows, unless specifically excluded in the tenancy agreement (very unusual) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Surely if the Landowner decides to stop you from shooting on HIS tenants land that would be the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Surely if the Landowner decides to stop you from shooting on HIS tenants land that would be the end of it. No the Tenant can either control the vermin himself or authorize others to do it for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Surely if the Landowner decides to stop you from shooting on HIS tenants land that would be the end of it. gamekeepers often use the excuse of 'the landowner' when they are being precious over people shooting pigeons, yes the pheasant shoot brings cash in, but then so do tennants who run productive farms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 gamekeepers often use the excuse of 'the landowner' when they are being precious over people shooting pigeons, yes the pheasant shoot brings cash in, but then so do tennants who run productive farms. All of which I accept, BUT if the LANDOWNER genuinely has decided to you're NOT welcome, that's the end of the matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 What is it with you always trying to hammer your views over using cap's BB All of which I accept, BUT if the LANDOWNER genuinely has decided to you're NOT welcome, that's the end of the matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 All of which I accept, BUT if the LANDOWNER genuinely has decided to you're NOT welcome, that's the end of the matter! Afraid not. If the Tenant wants you on his ground he has every right to ask you to control the vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 All of which I accept, BUT if the LANDOWNER genuinely has decided to you're NOT welcome, that's the end of the matter! well, technically speaking he would need to get the tennant to say no (unless the tenancy agreement restricted any vermin shooting)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 What is it with you always trying to hammer your views over using cap's BB I believe it's called emphasis Bluebarrels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I had the same problem a couple of years ago; landowner (not tenant and has nothing to do with the game, the keeper's employed by someone else) said I could shoot on another of his fields, gamekeeper got the hump big time (had I not had a shotgun in my hands, he'd've got a bit more than that...). It's a little paradise this field but I couldn't be doing with an ongoing dispute so, after getting little help from the landowner I put the ball in his court with a "sort it and I'll sort the vermin there for you" (put much more politely). Never been back, I look at shooting as leisure - life's too short to have to fight for it unless its your only permission. I'll spoil the keeper's day someday, it's only fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.