Oli Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hi Folks I've got some rats making a pest of themselves in my back garden and need to get rid, laying down poison isn't an option as I have dogs so I've bought one of those traps that catch them alive. I intend to put a few 22 air rifle pellets though them whilst still in the trap. My garden is well over looked so I just wanted to check there are no legal issues with doing this, apart from making sure that the pellets don't go over boundaries. I suspect it s a dumb question tbh but I've only just got my sgc so would rather not have an over zealous neighbour call it in and have the gun confiscated purely out of my ignorance. Cheers Oli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 you are fine using the air rifle in the garden just be sensible and make sure you have a good backstop. being a bit discreet is a good idea too. fenn traps in tunnels also work well in the garden . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Yes, its legal as long as you do it humanely. I'm struggling to understand a situation where you have a rat in a live catch cage you cannot move somewhere your neighbours can't see! How big a problem do you have, catching one at a time like this is time consuming, during which time the rest are breeding, you may have a long job. What is wrong with "poison" in tamper proof species specific bait boxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Tnx for the responses, yes im sure I can do it discretely but just wanted to make sure I was on the right side of the law. I'm not sure how big the problem is tbh, I've found where they are entering and have seen them a couple of times coming through in day light in the last couple of days. I had some boilies in the shed which must have been what attracted them, it's a bit of a mess in there now. Really don't want to risk the poison with the dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Get the problem sorted and do it quick. Think "Shock and awe" I ignored my duties a bit in the grounds and ended up with them in the house a few weeks back it was not funny when they got under the kitchen floor- phone the rat man if your not fully competent with all methods, like Dekers says they don't half breed at a rate, if you seeing in daylight there is likely a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Yikes, the mrs would go ballistic if one came in the house. I've only ordered one trap which is due tomorrow, sounds like I might need to splash out on a few more :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) ended up with them in the house a few weeks back it was not funny when they got under the kitchen floor- all the more reason not to put poison down. if they go and die under the floors etc they will stink as they de compose. Edited April 2, 2013 by aga man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Yikes, the mrs would go ballistic if one came in the house. I've only ordered one trap which is due tomorrow, sounds like I might need to splash out on a few more :(Rats are scared of new items in their environment, while they are getting used to not avoiding your traps like the plague they will be making more rats! Tell me about the mrs going mad, I had to sleep in the kitchen dinner that night with a stupid lab that would be less use against a rat than a clockwork cat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 ended up with them in the house a few weeks back it was not funny when they got under the kitchen floor- You crawl under the floor with a torch and get them out! it concentrates the resolve to keep them out and control them outside in future I can tell you that much! I avoided poison outside a while back because I have two Barn owls here and didn't want to risk secondary poisoning. Setting up a few outside tunnel traps and have been making regular visits around the grounds with .410 at night. The owls have had an official warning to get on with it or start paying rent ! all the more reason not to put poison down. if they go and die under the floors etc they will stink as they de compose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodlittlebitch Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 You got a mate with a terrier? And a spade? Or a two stroke engine to smoke them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 ended up with them in the house a few weeks back it was not funny when they got under the kitchen floor- all the more reason not to put poison down. if they go and die under the floors etc they will stink as they de compose. If they are not currently inside then they will not go inside to die after eating "poison", they will go home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 If they are not currently inside then they will not go inside to die after eating "poison", they will go home!Yes, even when they take poison inside this happens- its just sometimes they don't make it that far. Hence as no doubt you are aware proof them out not in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Clear the shed out they may have taken up residence among the clutter. Poison in secure bait boxes, snap traps baited with nutella or peanut butter. Bait station at your backstop again nutella / peanut butter and rifle at the ready. Cleared around 40 out using these methods along with neighbour who incidenlly demolished a perfectly good shed as he thought the scaly tails were in there.......they were not. Not seen one now for 18 months or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B B Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Although shooting them is the best method by far its time consuming and not always practical. I like amongst other methods to leave poison down the whole time around the birds, and the best way i have found is bait stations. just make them up from drain pipe and fill them up with a bung end as a top, they can be tie warped to a post or shed side or wall and as rats move about tight to things they walk straight in to them. they are safe cheap and effective and they or killing 24/7. Make some feeders up like this for rats . But shooting is best if you got the time. I leave poison down the whole time around the birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted April 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Cheers chaps, the first trap arrived today so will be going out tonight and the shed will be done this weekend along with blocking any rat highways i can find... something else to look forward to . Ive already removed the offending food source a variety of different flavoured boillies and dunks... hmm the carp never seem so keen to come to them...then i need to go through all my kit and see if there has been any damage to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monster1971 Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 i wouldnt worry too much about keeping it a secret you really dont have anything to hide ,you arent breaking any laws and you can bet your bottom dollar if you have neihbours in close proximaty they also have a rat problem ,i would keep quiet about the fishing bait though as some one will blame you for bringing them in, good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 If you are worried about them coming in your house I cannot help but wonder if you dogs are not a little "light on their toes"-what have you got Chihuahua's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted April 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Hi, i would only be worried about them coming in the house because well its jut not a nice thing to have especially when you have a young one around and i know my mrs would go mental, i have a couple of staffies so im sure they would think it was xmas if a rat came in. By the way, so far 1 rat and 1 mouse down, not sure how many to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 If you are worried about them coming in your house I cannot help but wonder if you dogs are not a little "light on their toes"-what have you got Chihuahua's? They didn't seem to bother at my place about an odd dog plodding about, they know when they are venerable and under the floor they feel quite safe, didn't feel quite so safe when I put a terrier down in the cellar mind you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Although shooting them is the best method by far its time consuming and not always practical. I like amongst other methods to leave poison down the whole time around the birds, and the best way i have found is bait stations. just make them up from drain pipe and fill them up with a bung end as a top, they can be tie warped to a post or shed side or wall and as rats move about tight to things they walk straight in to them. they are safe cheap and effective and they or killing 24/7. Make some feeders up like this for rats . But shooting is best if you got the time. I leave poison down the whole time around the birds. Secondary poisoning from resident pair of barn owls eating poisoned rats is my issue here, keeping baits from sparrows and the likes is easy like you state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Secondary poisoning from resident pair of barn owls eating poisoned rats is my issue here, keeping baits from sparrows and the likes is easy like you state. Obviously all risk needs to be assessed but secondary poisoning (death) in birds is very rare if currently approved baits are used in accordance with statutory box! LD50 for rats with Difenacoum is 1.8mg/kg., for birds it is in the order of 100mg/kg, for Bromadiolone it is less in both cases but the difference is still massive. My guess is that a Barn Owl will weigh around twice what a rat does, so on the basis an Owl is going to have to ingest about 50 times as much poison as a rat to kill it by weight and is twice as heavy, it will have to ingest about 100 times as much as a rat. This is actual poison intake, by way of secondary poisoning the figure is almost impossible to calculate but will again be higher. Your Owl will almost certainly be eating other prey as well so the likelihood of it eating non stop contaminated prey is small, as soon as it stops eating them it starts to get better, and if it eats non contaminated that also dilutes the internal poison. I am not for one second suggesting secondary poisoning isn't possible, what I am saying is secondary poisoning (death) in birds is very rare if currently approved baits are used in accordance with statutory box! Lets not get too wrapped up in specific figures, suffice to say any Owl is going to have to eat an awful lot more poison than a rat to have any effect, and by way of secondary poisoning a massive amount more! Edited April 7, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Dekers, This is not what I have been advised, secondary poisoning of BOP is common I believe? I think a Barn owl will weigh the same or less than a rat 14 oz a rat? Either way putting one off the wing for a few days while it felt a bit crook will also be fatal as the flying weight reduces to a point it cannot hunt quite quickly. Owls look bigger than they are due to the feathers that make them quiet. I also saw the male Hen Harrier here yesterday so the chances of me risking it outside are slim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Dekers, This is not what I have been advised, secondary poisoning of BOP is common I believe? I think a Barn owl will weigh the same or less than a rat 14 oz a rat? Either way putting one off the wing for a few days while it felt a bit crook will also be fatal as the flying weight reduces to a point it cannot hunt quite quickly. Owls look bigger than they are due to the feathers that make them quiet. I also saw the male Hen Harrier here yesterday so the chances of me risking it outside are slim Do what you like, I have not suggested you should bait, the figures are out there in the public domain, plenty of Safety Data sheets etc, supplied with the product following extensive, expensive research, dictated by DEFRA and Europe, thats the only way they get approval. Thats also why I have to spend so much time doing risk assessments and method statements. Of course it can happen, and you can get run over by a bus as well, it's about risk and management! like I say...... secondary poisoning (death) in birds is very rare if currently approved baits are used in accordance with statutory box! Edit Lets assume a Barn owl and a rat weigh the same then, the owl still has to eat 50x as much poison as a rat to kill it, to achieve that through secondary poisoning would be all but impossible as long as you complied with the underlined bit above. Lets keep it in perspective! Edited April 7, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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