the bulgarians and romanians

[Penelope]

The thing with Farage is that he and Ukip are a gun to hold to the Conservatives head, which may not be required if it wasn't for the LibDem monkey on their backs. Sadly, you are right about Labour and the inevitable gravy train. The problem is many have a short memory come the next GE and vote for labour who will be promising the earth.

 

It will be interesting to see how Ukip do in the May elections and what the response will be.

 

To be honest, I like the Ukip rhetoric having been at 45, a life long Conservative voter.

 

the issue is there is only one party that will clobber benefits and they are doing what they can while they have a lib dem noose round their necks. Sadly we are doomed as too many are there to gain from Labour getting the gravy train rolling again and too many believing that idiot Farage has a credible answer and voting labour by default.

[Gimlet]

The thing with Farage is that he and Ukip are a gun to hold to the Conservatives head, which may not be required if it wasn't for the LibDem monkey on their backs. Sadly, you are right about Labour and the inevitable gravy train. The problem is many have a short memory come the next GE and vote for labour who will be promising the earth.

It will be interesting to see how Ukip do in the May elections and what the response will be.

 

To be honest, I like the Ukip rhetoric having been at 45, a life long Conservative voter.

 

There is a considerably larger millstone than the Lib Dems around the Conservative's and the Country's neck and that is the misapprehension of Mr Cameron and his supporters that the EU was concieved as and remains a trading block whose rules and precedures can be amended and whose terms of membership negotiated. It wasn't, it isn't and they can't. The sole objective of the EU project has always been pan-European eradication of national government and national identity and the establishment of a superstate governed by a self-appointed politburo of unelected and unaccountable Commissioners. Every treaty signed since the project's inception has been drafted to lock constitutional change irreversibly in place.

Cameron's Conservatives mis-identify the problem and prescribe a solution that is technically impossible to realise.

 

 

Finally, if you believe that this is just caused by immigration then if you also believe in market forces then it will all sort itself out. We will bankrupt ourselves, be unable to pay any benefits to anybody and the migrants will move to the next country that they can pillage. Look what is happening in Spain. It's busted and the number of migrants has fallen.

 

Ah if life was that simple.

 

You could also protect your house from squatters by burning it down but that rather defeats the object.

[Penelope]

Gimlet, I detest the idea of a Euro superstate.

 

I have a Ukip candidate standing for the May elections and will be putting my cross down for Ukip.

There is a considerably larger millstone than the Lib Dems around the Conservative's and the Country's neck and that is the misapprehension of Mr Cameron and his supporters that the EU was concieved as and remains a trading block whose rules and precedures can be amended and whose terms of membership negotiated. It wasn't, it isn't and they can't. The sole objective of the EU project has always been pan-European eradication of national government and national identity and the establishment of a superstate governed by a self-appointed politburo of unelected and unaccountable Commissioners. Every treaty signed since the project's inception has been drafted to lock constitutional change irreversibly in place.

Cameron's Conservatives mis-identify the problem and prescribe a solution that is technically impossible to realise.

 

 

 

You could also protect your house from squatters by burning it down but that rather defeats the object.

[Vince Green]

a very good point but there is far more than 1 million claimants so some job creation must be needed.

You have to remember that a lot of claimants would go home if you stopped the benefits. Freeing up houses, school places etc as well. A lot more would never come here in the first place. A lot of claimants are working on the side now driving minicabs etc

Edited April 24, 2013 by Vince Green

[aris]

a very good point but there is far more than 1 million claimants so some job creation must be needed.

Jobs don't grow on trees. Jobs are created by entrepreneurs - risk takers. The same people who seem to be despised by certain sectors of society. Of course, there is nothing stopping anyone from starting their own business. Why don't they?

[overandunder2012]

You have to remember that a lot of claimants would go home if you stopped the benefits. Freeing up houses, school places etc as well. A lot more would never come here in the first place. A lot of claimants are working on the side now driving minicabs etc

it is true a percentage may have "other incomes" and would just move into those full time

[highseas]

I feel I have a bit to add hear so...

 

i worked on a christmass tree farm for 6 years as a game keeper and stalker and whilst their we have safas.polish,kiwis,romanian, Bulgarian.austrailian, irish Scottish and one English guy who lasted 3 hours, my mind is changed on forein workers, the lads their work like their lives depend on it, their well paid. one guy who was a chainsaw man was on £10 a houre they all made twice or more as much as me in a week.

 

brits just don't want to do it the works their but they just don't wanna

[Gimlet]

Jobs don't grow on trees. Jobs are created by entrepreneurs - risk takers. The same people who seem to be despised by certain sectors of society. Of course, there is nothing stopping anyone from starting their own business. Why don't they?

 

The previous government ably assisted by EU directives and a complex tax system expressly designed to entrap and obstruct the self-reliant, went out of their way to discourage entrepeneurs and the self-employed. The coalition has done nothing whatever to change this as far as I can see except to encourage foreign migrants to exploit and expand the black cash economy. Cash which they then take out of the country and out of the economy. They used to call that asset stripping, now they call it diversity.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Gimlet

[Albertan_J]

Can they hold a flag and walk in a straight line? Lets get them on the grouse

[Gimlet]

I feel I have a bit to add hear so...

 

i worked on a christmass tree farm for 6 years as a game keeper and stalker and whilst their we have safas.polish,kiwis,romanian, Bulgarian.austrailian, irish Scottish and one English guy who lasted 3 hours, my mind is changed on forein workers, the lads their work like their lives depend on it, their well paid. one guy who was a chainsaw man was on £10 a houre they all made twice or more as much as me in a week.

 

brits just don't want to do it the works their but they just don't wanna

 

Low paid Brits don't want the work because the money they earn is next to useless. They feel they can't get anywhere so why bother. You work your backside off far above the minimum wage just to stand still. Its a defeatists attitude, of course, but one fuelled by welfarism and a punative taxation system. And its understandable. I've no idea how people house themselves permenantly and progress and save money on £10 an hour. If you're Polish or Bulgarian a couple of years graft in Britain working round the clock and sleeping on the floor and you're a property owner back home. Of course they want to work. Who wouldn't. Britain is a great place to be a low paid worker if you're from a much poorer foreign country and can skip with the cash, which under EU free movement laws they can, but a terrible place if you're British.

British Governments have given up trying to address this. They waffle about social mobility but all they come up with is expensive tinkering, abusing the tax system to subsidise pet projects pushing up spending and taxes and the already extortionate cost of living for everyone. They make all the right noises then proceed to make things worse. Then they ship in millions of foreign labourers which cuts the bottom rung off altogether for millions of Brits. Only the employers and the immigrants benefit from mass immigration. Wider society pays the price and those lowest down the social ladder pay the highest price of all.

[aris]

Some good points there Gimlet. I'm wondering if slowly raising the minimum wage, and lowering (or at the very least freezing, and letting inflation do its work) benefits might nudge people into work.

 

At the same time, there needs to be a bit of an attitude adjustment by those in receipt of benefits. There appears to be a sense of entitlement which needs to be slowly extinguished.

 

As we can see from this discussion - if the answers were easy, they would have been solved.

[whitey10765666]

All i can say is its a good job we haven't found life on other planets, no doubt Britain would send money there

[besty57]

Low paid Brits don't want the work because the money they earn is next to useless. They feel they can't get anywhere so why bother. You work your backside off far above the minimum wage just to stand still. Its a defeatists attitude, of course, but one fuelled by welfarism and a punative taxation system. And its understandable. I've no idea how people house themselves permenantly and progress and save money on £10 an hour. If you're Polish or Bulgarian a couple of years graft in Britain working round the clock and sleeping on the floor and you're a property owner back home. Of course they want to work. Who wouldn't. Britain is a great place to be a low paid worker if you're from a much poorer foreign country and can skip with the cash, which under EU free movement laws they can, but a terrible place if you're British.

British Governments have given up trying to address this. They waffle about social mobility but all they come up with is expensive tinkering, abusing the tax system to subsidise pet projects pushing up spending and taxes and the already extortionate cost of living for everyone. They make all the right noises then proceed to make things worse. Then they ship in millions of foreign labourers which cuts the bottom rung off altogether for millions of Brits. Only the employers and the immigrants benefit from mass immigration. Wider society pays the price and those lowest down the social ladder pay the highest price of all.

nail on the head pal

[gemini52]

Explain this to me how can polish people come here to work,register as self employed and receive grants to buy a car or van to help with the business,i know this to be true as i worked with a polish guy a few years back,he bought a new car for his girl friend and used her tatty astra,how can i as a self employed decorator compete,it bloody mifs me well off.

[FalconFN]

 

Explain this to me how can polish people come here to work,register as self employed and receive grants to buy a car or van to help with the business,i know this to be true as i worked with a polish guy a few years back,he bought a new car for his girl friend and used her tatty astra,how can i as a self employed decorator compete,it bloody mifs me well off.

If he got a grant for a new car then why can't you? There are no special laws or handouts for the Polish community so whatever scheme he signed up to should be available to anyone.

[Vince Green]

There is another point which I keep making and its this - 'migrant' workers from another EU country don't have to pay tax in this country. They can elect to pay the tax in their home country and of course everybody believes that they do................

[Gimlet]

If he got a grant for a new car then why can't you? There are no special laws or handouts for the Polish community so whatever scheme he signed up to should be available to anyone.

 

I'll eat my hat if that is the case. There are indeed special laws to help EU migrants find work as part of free movement of people regulations - we are required to provide interpreters for one thing- but not all countries have signed up to them. Ask Mr Blair, it was he who did the deal. I would be fascinated to know if a British jobseeker can land himself a job and ask his employer on the first day to sign a form so he can be granted £1500 from the taxpayer to buy a Fiesta. I have been assured by a chap who owns an engineering business that you certainly can if you're Polish because he signs such paperwork every month. Admittedly that was over a year ago so the position could have changed, but I'd be surprised if the EU and the British Government had got together and agreed to shelve a bad, expensive and discriminatory law; the usual precedure is to add new ones that are even worse.

[ME]

We have a Bulgarian cleaner at home. In fact she has been to the house today. She turns up on time, she is polite, she doesn't chat, shirk or drink tea. She arrives and she works. If she ever has to leave even five minutes early she will arrive five minutes early the next time. She also cleans for other people we know and we all trust her with a key to our houses. (she is CRB checked).

 

On the flip side we had an English early morning cleaner at work. They came when they felt like it. Didn't tell us when they were or weren't coming and only sometimes waved a duster around. I think that they only came early morning so we couldn't quantify the little that they did. We ended up buying a hoover and some polish and now I do their job for 10 minutes on a Monday morning.

 

There are way to many lazy British working class people. (I know I have employed a few). If you speak to any self employed person who is good at their job they are all banged out busy and charge good rates. This "triple dip recession" is only effecting people who want it all handed to them on a plate for nothing. They are the same ones that spend the day watching Jeremy Kyle and moaning about the "immigrants that steal our jobs".

[Beardo]

amen to that ME - i could quote you word for word and sign that myself (except our good cleaner was Polish)

[gemini52]

I'll eat my hat if that is the case. There are indeed special laws to help EU migrants find work as part of free movement of people regulations - we are required to provide interpreters for one thing- but not all countries have signed up to them. Ask Mr Blair, it was he who did the deal. I would be fascinated to know if a British jobseeker can land himself a job and ask his employer on the first day to sign a form so he can be granted £1500 from the taxpayer to buy a Fiesta. I have been assured by a chap who owns an engineering business that you certainly can if you're Polish because he signs such paperwork every month. Admittedly that was over a year ago so the position could have changed, but I'd be surprised if the EU and the British Government had got together and agreed to shelve a bad, expensive and discriminatory law; the usual precedure is to add new ones that are even worse.

The guy in question told me he got just over twelve grand to help him set up,when i asked him how come he said he new loads of polish lads getting it,thats one of the reasons they come here to take advantage of the start up grants,he said if i went to poland to work i could get the same.

[gemini52]

If he got a grant for a new car then why can't you? There are no special laws or handouts for the Polish community so whatever scheme he signed up to should be available to anyone.

If i want to go to poland to work than yes i can,if its that good then why the hell are all here.

[unapalomablanca]

There is another point which I keep making and its this - 'migrant' workers from another EU country don't have to pay tax in this country. They can elect to pay the tax in their home country and of course everybody believes that they do................

Vince, if this is true, then it destroys the massive left wing lie about immigration being so beneficial even more than before.

[digger]

Wow. All the Polish people are here?

[955i]

They are gearing up for this round here.

 

There was a shop in Heanor near me that used to be called 'Polish shop' (funnily, my ex-wife thought they just sold polish) and it has been re-named 'Euro Shop' so they obviously don't want to discourage the new arrivals

[castletyne]

amen to that ME - i could quote you word for word and sign that myself (except our good cleaner was Polish)

and someone will be able to say the same for a British worker

 

It amazes me how some think every foreign worker in this country are the hardest working people on the planet and evey British person is a lazy ****

 

I know of a polish cleaning company and a few polish builder who came here done bodge jobs and ****** off back to Poland

 

There's good workers and lazy in all

Edited April 25, 2013 by castletyne